Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: paulc on November 27, 2019, 07:39:02 pm
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My wife and I just bought a house and a neighbor ID’d the tree in our front yard as lacy elm...which I believe is also Chinese elm. Anyone know anything about them in terms of bow making?
Thanks, Paul
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Some people around here call box elder Chinese Elm. I'm thinking it's a poor bow wood. I don't know if that's the wood you have though
Bjrogg
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Yip,im with BJ.
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All the street trees on my street are Chinese elm. Tiny leaf about 1/2" long. Excellent bow wood, almost impossible to break even with severe violations. Dense and heavy.
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I guess pics will be needed. Tomorrow, thanks
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All the street trees on my street are Chinese elm. Tiny leaf about 1/2" long. Excellent bow wood, almost impossible to break even with severe violations. Dense and heavy.
Hey Steve is that something different than Box Elder? I really don't know what Chinese Elm is. I just know that some people around here call Box Elder by that name.
Bjrogg
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Chinese Elm is an actual Elm species from China. It's quite resistant to Elm blight which is why it is still planted as a street tree around the World.
Box Elder is Manitoba Maple. Can't imagine anyone deliberately planting that nor why they would call it Elm for any reason.
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Does the "lacy elm" have corky wings along the smaller branches? If so it could be winged elm.
Like Pat said there is a big difference between elm and maple leaves. No comparison.
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Chinese Elm is an actual Elm species from China. It's quite resistant to Elm blight which is why it is still planted as a street tree around the World.
Box Elder is Manitoba Maple. Can't imagine anyone deliberately planting that nor why they would call it Elm for any reason.
Thanks Pat. I can't imagine either. It grows like a weed here. It doesn't even make decent firewood. I have know idea why some call it Chinese Elm. Some people call it piss elm to. If you burn it you'll figure out why they call it that. It smells like it. It doesn't resemble Elm in any way to me.
Bjrogg
At any rate it sounds like you might have a winner there Paulc
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That honestly sounds a lot more like Siberian Elm than Box Elder.
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If your in the western US then 99% chance it’s a Siberian elm and not Chinese. People call it Chinese but it’s not. Easy to tell the difference. Siberian elm when it is full grown has fissured bark of brown to dark grey. Chinese elm has pale smooth bark that looks like sycamore. Siberian elm is a great bow wood. As fast a bow as any top wood. I only use young trees using the natural rounded back. That is the best design for this wood and a flat belly. It is much stronger in tension so the natural crowned back works that tension wood. It was also used as a core wood in Mongolian composite bows at least 800 years ago
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Not to thread-jack, but is Siberian elm sap wood yellow?
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It could be considered a pale yellow. The heartwood is a dark brown and it smells wonderful working with it. The bark of Siberian looks a lot like box elder and black willow and in the wintertime the way to tell them apart is willow and box elder bark is easy to break off the tree but elm bark is tuff.
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I have made one really good bow from siberian elm and had a few failures--but I think I had rot/fungus in that log. If it is good wood, you can make a really good, really beautiful bow from it. I have to say, though, mine was the worst smelling wood I have worked with. Not sure if you were being honest or ironic, Chuck.
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Jeff, interesting yours smelled bad. Maybe it was a fungus. It has a wonderful smell similar to hhb. I’d like to hear from people who have made bows from full size trunks.
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All the street trees on my street are Chinese elm. Tiny leaf about 1/2" long. Excellent bow wood, almost impossible to break even with severe violations. Dense and heavy.
Hey Steve is that something different than Box Elder? I really don't know what Chinese Elm is. I just know that some people around here call Box Elder by that name.
Bjrogg
As far as I know box elder is maple
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+1
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If your in the western US then 99% chance it’s a Siberian elm and not Chinese. People call it Chinese but it’s not. Easy to tell the difference. Siberian elm when it is full grown has fissured bark of brown to dark grey. Chinese elm has pale smooth bark that looks like sycamore. Siberian elm is a great bow wood. As fast a bow as any top wood. I only use young trees using the natural rounded back. That is the best design for this wood and a flat belly. It is much stronger in tension so the natural crowned back works that tension wood. It was also used as a core wood in Mongolian composite bows at least 800 years ago
Very cool. Though not native in the U.S., Siberian Elms are not considered invasive because the generally won't out-compete native trees. I was able to purchase 10 Siberian Elm rootstocks for $25 from a catalog. They grow very fast. One of them was in a very wet area and it died, so I have cut it into three 6-foot logs about 5" round. They have lots of little branches though.
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Siberian Elm was planted very extensively to establish shelter belts and it hybridizes with native Red Elm. It was also extensively crossed deliberately and cultivars were developed from those crossed specimens.
Trees that can't readily be placed as a species may be those crosses.
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Pat, I wonder if our Siberian’s out west are more pure. as far as I know there are no elms native from the Rocky Mountains to the pacific.
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Chuck I have used trees up to 10" in diameter. Seem to be as good as the smaller ones. I like Siberian for bows.
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Pat, I wonder if our Siberian’s out west are more pure. as far as I know there are no elms native from the Rocky Mountains to the pacific.
Yeah, unless a hybrid was planted it doesn't seem like there's anything there.
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Chinese Elm is very popular as a bonsai because of it's tiny leaves and fine twigs. The hybrids may not have such small leaves. Might be a way of distinguishing.
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https://openprairie.sdstate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1047&=&context=agexperimentsta_tb&=&sei-redir=1&referer=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.bing.com%252Fsearch%253Fq%253Dslippery%252Belm%252Bsiberian%252Bhybrids%2526form%253DEDGEAR%2526qs%253DPF%2526cvid%253Dc8118909491e4a5aa394f459f3649126%2526cc%253DCA%2526setlang%253Den-US%2526elv%253DAQj93OAhDTi%252AHzTv1paQdni%252AiDz5XgZcEe4xvuRq62FQxj6zBglzUVjs3k%252ATE6p2VwSg1gUJTz44quWLV8zHSxvmf5GWO1Cgtftgmf6h1ZzN%2526plvar%253D0%2526PC%253DASTS#search=%22slippery%20elm%20siberian%20hybrids%22
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Chinese elm seed pods cover the ground this time of year. For some reason hundreds of them will sprout in my fire pit and any potted plants I have around will also be invaded.
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Chinese elm is an excellent bow wood, if that is actually what it is. It is pretty difficult to ID since many trees look somewhat similar. Zelkova is nearly identical. However, Zelcova is also a great bow wood, so no loss there.
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Just a shot in the dark, but no chance he's perhaps getting it wrong and it's actually a Chinaberry?
In that case I think a Chinaberry will make a bow if you use a wide stave and dry it properly. Sapwood is very springy in tension, but seems awful in compression. I can't comment on the heartwood, though.
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Here are the bark and leaves...thanks so much for your help.
Paul
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That is Chinese elm. Where do you live? Sounds like there is Chinese elm in Steve’s(badger) part of california too.
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Savannah, GA