Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Deerhunter21 on December 03, 2019, 09:18:41 am
-
so a couple of days ago i was trying to chase a ring on a osage stave i have but whenever i got at the line where the ring was, instead of it taking a little bit and drawing it back a little bit, it caught right under the ring and tried to tear it up. It got me to the ring i wanted but i still have half of the stave to go. when it tears up it leaves these deep grooves that i dont like. is this ok?
-
If the grooves are in the target ring, you will need to go down another one. It might be OK if they are on the edge or tip (so that part won't be used on the bow), but you need to refine your technique and figure out what is causing the problem. Opinions vary on drawknife technique, but for osage ring chasing I have the best luck with one that isn't too sharp (assuming your stave is dry), using it with the bevel side down. Also, I like to leave the last early wood above the target ring (the crunchy, honeycombish part) and take that off very carefully as a last step, usually with a scraper. Take your time!
-
When your draw knife catches turn the stave around and work from the other direction or go around that area and come back later with a scraper.
-
Use the drawknife to get you down to the ring above the one you are chasing, then use a scraper to get you home........ :BB
-
What pat said +1
I've given up on using a draw knife, except for roughing out. I have to many problems with grain tearing out like you described. For me it is really easy to make big mistakes. I've had them create hinges, twisting limbs, loss of final draw weight.... Everytime I use it I find myself chasing problems. I've had better results by roughing out with my make shift table saw and use a course rasp with nice long strokes, then switch to a sharp knife/scraper for final tillering.
-
sometimes if the stave is a bit green it trys to tear like that,,
on a really dry stave. it is less likely to do that
-
sometimes if the stave is a bit green it trys to tear like that,,
on a really dry stave. it is less likely to do that
I agree. I like a dry stave. I usually remove the ring above the one I'm chasing to the crunchy early wood. then I use my cabinet scrapper to remove early wood and it won't damage my late wood ring. if stave is to wet early wood isn't crunchy and wood wants to tear more. in that situation I might just get it close to a ring seal back and let it cure awhile before actually chasing a ring.
bjrogg
-
I love running a drawknife over Osage. I use it as a scraper as well. Bevel up hogs the wood off. I stay one ring above the target if it’s greenish. The tear outs are still scary but usually stay above where your working. If it is dry I go right to the back ring with no worries. Bevel down and blade at a 90...the curl on the edge is an ideal scraper. It is therapy for me.
-
Sometime, a bowyer needs to know when to swap tools for less aggressive ones.
-
I used to believe that hooey about a dull draw knife until I learned to control the tool and to use it more surgically. The "primitive" in primitive archery does not mean crude, inept, violent, or incautious. I have had far better luck with a draw knife that is wickedly sharp, take smaller bites and more of them, and control where the cutting edge is riding.
Others have also noted that your stave may be a little damp, too. I find no matter how careful I am with a damp stave, I will get grain tear out while chasing a ring. Put a light coat of oil on the ring you are at now, and put it somewhere warm where there is air movement. And if at all possible, put it on a kitchen scale, weigh it to the nearest gram, and write that weight on one end of the stave in pencil. Give it a week and see if the weight stayed the same.
-
ok, I don't think its wet but maybe... it feels dry and the shavings are dry but then again you never know. i think ill need to go a ring down from the one i want just to be safe but ill still treat it like i'm chasing that ring and get it as flush as i can and then go down one more, seal it, and wait till im better because this stave is kinda special.
-
You are using the wrong tool for the job.
It all depends on how the tree grew and how the grain runs. Some staves will have grain that dips and swirls - no matter how dry or whatever they are edged tools will always catch and tear out the grain. Dull tools can make it worse. Going into the area from the 'other 'direction can help but really as soon as an edged tool catches the grain - STOP USING IT :) Time for rasps and files and maybe a scraper for very fine work but again a scraper will want to catch on these staves.
-
Well i dont think its catching that bad. It just likes to go into the early ring and under the ring. Other than that its been going really well. Maybe it just means i need to be more careful and try to work the.stave down slower.
-
As you get close to your intended back ring make each wood removal a thoughtful one. Know where the blade is going and the potential of what can happen as you draw the blade to you.
-
For me, the angle of the blade is determinate. Bevel up and at a 45...that's for taking off bark and sap wood in just a few bites as it will dig in and allow you to tear away big chunks of refuse. As you begin to work the heart wood, lessen the angle of the blade (bevel up) running it nearly flat with the back. This angle is much less aggressive and will peel away thin slices off what you are working thru. As you get close to the ring you want, turn the knife around so that the bevel is facing away and hold the blade somewhat perpendicular to back. Now scrape away the remains of the ring your on, and the early wood exposing the pristine back your after. Careful around any knots, as that is where the tear outs will happen more often than not. Come at the knot using it as a scraper and come into the knot from every angle and dont go past it. Only to the top of the knot and no further.
Something else on the knots...using the knife as a scraper,start at the top of the knot and scrape downward(bevel facing you). This lets the burr do the the finish work on cleaning the knot up. I typically leave the knots proud and shave the wood off of them from the top down.
-
It is all about tool technique. Anytime you pull the drawknife directly toward you and encounter a grain shift you may tear out a place. You have to read the wood and see what it will let you do.
I take slightly cross the stave slicing motions with my draw knife unless I am hogging off a lot of wood. My drawknife is razor sharp.
Like Pat said; at the first sign of a chip turn your stave around and cut from the other direction.
JW has it right, once you pass the drawknife learning curve you can do amazing things with it if you don't get in a hurry.
-
Ok thankyou guys. I think i get it now! hopefully i can do this right now!
-
On top of what everyone has already said (which I agree with completely). Is that the longer splinter you try to take off in one pull of the draw knife. The more likely you are to get a tear out. Along those line, I have better luck ring. Heading with less issues by chasing a ring up the stave in 6” increments. Instead of working the ring down the stave towards me. Essentially I start chasing the ring in the end closest to me, start cutting in about 6” away. Once yhat section is where I want it, I go to the next 6” section, that way I’m only ever cutting towards a drop in grain layer. Meaning that if it does tear out, it’ll only carry as far as that short section. Plus I like to use a razor sharp knife and use short clicking motions when I get close to my intended ring.
Kyle
-
once you have worked about 100 staves to a ring it will seem easy,, but hard to explain,, :NN
-
Got it, "be careful and it will come with time but until then be sensible" plus some other personal opinions that i will try. Im going to try (instead of starting in front of the ring im taking off) im going to start just on top of it so it doesnt catch under the ring but instead ill be shaving it off.
-
Also when you are new to it chase the earlywood ring above your intended latewood ring first. Then you simply have to 'wipe' off the earlywood with a scraper/sandpaper combo. Don't aim directly for the ring you want. You should be aiming to remove /not even touch the ring you want for the back.