Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Piddler on December 08, 2019, 01:01:29 pm
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Guys I need some opinions and adult supervision on a knot in this stave I'm working. I am still new at this game and this is the first Knot of this type I have had to deal with. Also My first Osage to work. As you can see in the photo, I have the knot 1" above center. Originally had it at dead center but have moved center down 1". That explains all the lines because there two sets. The center line is marked with a circle for reference. There wasn't enough wood to go around it as the stave was undercut pretty steep on that side. The other side didn't seem to be optimal either. That's just how the stave was. I planned on cutting an arrow shelf and figured that with the shelf most of the knot would be removed. Dimensions planned are 4" handle and 2" fades, 1 1/2" limb width and 1" handle section. The outer lines you see are 2" and the inner lines are the planned 1 1/2". The stave is pretty thin ringed is the reason I planned on 1 1/2". Opinions on width are welcome as well. I plan on around 50# draw weight.
So question no 1 here would be would the shelf weaken it too much with this grain orientation or just don't cut a shelf. Or leave some extra wood on the outside.
Question 2, In moving the center down It also moved the fade down by 1". Does it appear that the fade in the upper section is ok with the grain or do I need something different there. Maybe add another inch to the handle or something. I would just as soon leave at the dimensions mentioned if possible. Hope the photos show up. They are not good quality so bear with me.
Thanks in advance
Piddler
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First, I would follow the grain around the knot. Glue a shim on the side of the handle for a shelf. I really cant tell on the fades, but you will violate the grain there anyway. The angle of violation is the key in my opinion. 90 degrees and it snaps in two, right? So make the angle of violation as minimal as possible.
I have done some squirrely handles. You just have to follow the general flow of the center line. If it sways left, so will the entire handle.
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Thanks for the reply SLIMBOB. Looks like I posted the same photo twice. While I didn't think I had enough depth under that side, I measured things again and it looks like it will be enough depth for the handle. I kind of round that part of the handle off anyway. I'll clean up my markings and get a good grain line. and go with it. It also looks like it will come back into the fades about right. Sometimes I try to overthink things I guess.
Piddler
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It looks as though if you follow the grain around the knot on the left side, you will eliminate the knot entirely. The divot will be the arrow pass. Maybe??
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You could flip it and have the knot as the bottom of the handle... I mean it's not even roughed out yet so how do you know which is top limb or bottom limb. All in all Slimbob is right, follow that grain and you should be ok.
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Slimbob,
I laid out some lines following the grain and I am liking it. It comes into the fades pretty good as well. As you stated the divot should suffice for a good arrow pass.
Stixnstones, Thanks for the comment. Like it is it leaves me the mentioned arrow pass. As you state all options are still open.
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Cool. Got a pic?
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Kind of a rough one. Got a couple other lines in it as well so don't pay attention to them. Had a couple other things to do so didn't clean up all my marks. I plan on starting the blend to the fade as depicted by the lines. They will be 2" fades. The one to the right fade will probably be rounded a bit more and not such a straight line. It does seem to cut across more grain. This makes a 1" wide handle area and should be 1 1/2" or close in depth. If you guys see errors let me know. Still pretty new to this.
Thanks again all.
Piddler
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Know what.... i read it wrong, your wantin to use the knot, my bad. Continue what your doin and you'll be fine.
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That might work. You wanted a shelf so if the divot is in the right spot you might be able to leave the bottom part of the knot as the shelf.
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well Im gonna go out on a limb,, ha,, :)
if the handel is gonna be deep and non bending,, I think you could cut through it and keep your handle like you want it,, not saying im right,, just thinking if its non bending there,, you can do it how ever you want,,maybe leave it a bit deeper at that spot,,
(-S
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The knot is a weak spot (potentially) and you are planning to put it where there will definitely be a weak spot (arrow shelf).
Leave it well alone until the bow is braced and you can see where the string lies.
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Just my take on it, not a wood I use much and not a style of bow I make often ::)
Leave plenty spare round the knot, it can always sit under the palm of your hand.
Don't feel obliged to cut it out to shape from the start... you can always take more off and finesse that area once it's a shooter.
Don't cut away an arrow pass, again you can always relieve it a little later. IMO one of the common mistakes is shaping handles before the bow is finished... let the bow decide how it want's to sit in the hand (and even which way up sometimes.
Del
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How thick is it? Where does knot exit? It looks like at least part of that knot is probably loose.
I always do like Del suggested and leave my handle till well after first brace. It just gives me more options and a place to clamp my bow in vice.
I also like stixnstones idea of flipping it over. Provided I had enough thickness for a stiff handle and a arrow pass I think I'd use both of those methods. You could leave palm area of handle wide around knot and still have a comfortable handle. Then you would have more trustworthy wood for arrow shelf portion of handle.
Could you post a picture of belly side and edge side? I'd like to know how thick it is and where that knot is going .
Bjrogg
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I don't disagree with any of the above. You might be able to just leave the handle straight and disregard the grain. Were it mine, I would do as I suggested. You can leave it wide and narrow down as you near completion. That is likely a good idea on this one just to ensure everything lines up well. I think handles of this type can really add to the character of the bow, but you want to make sure it functions properly, so leaving a bit wide and narrowing down later might help you get there.
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I will definitely will leave it wide till the end. Probably leave a little extra wood as well. Did have to get a plan sorted out simply due to bow layout and fade placement.
Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.
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I would cut the handle 1" wide, cut theknot mostly out and glue on the palm swell pieces on both sides, they will be covered with leather. I cut a wedge shaped chunk out of the handle where i want my rest and glue in a square piece of wood that matches the cutout, when the glue cures I shape it to the size I want. If you knot is right where you want a rest you could get rid of all of it with a glued in rest.
Like this;
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Another I used unibond for this fix;
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I would cut straight through it as if it wasn't there. Then when I round off the front edges of my grip I would eliminate completely.
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Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas fellas. I have some time to think it over.
Piddler
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Pearl is right in that you probably can disregard the whole thing. It is the handle and being static, it might not matter at all. Always a good practice to follow the grain when you can and I think it will look cool. Show us what you decide. Good luck.
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Piddler, that's a challenging knot for sure. I'm just curious about what angle/direction the knot goes. Can you post a picture of the other side?
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bjrogg and Hrothgar, Here is a photo of the belly side as requested. Apologize for the delay. As you can see in the first photo the hard undercut is what was originally giving me concerns about going with the grain. I've done lots of measuring and some trimming in that area and have concluded that it will almost get to the 1 1/2" depth I was wanting but not quite. I do believe it will be sufficient though. I will round that part quite a bit anyway. The second and third photos are after trimming. It is trimmed to about 1 3/4" with the area around the grain swirl still over 2". Looks like I will get rid of most of it either way I go. If I go with the grain I think it will all be gone. May have some swirly would left though.
Piddler
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Piddler, sorry for the delay in responding. In your photo it seems like the knot is in the fade and not in the handle area. If you are able to comfortable grasp the handle w/o the knot effecting your grip I would try to leave a little extra wood there. If you're going to narrow the handle much more you might consider leaving the handle a bit longer to compensate --it may be too late for that though. Are you working with a long stave?