Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Horn Bows => Topic started by: stuckinthemud on March 06, 2020, 11:16:42 am
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Hi guys, I know you can use some fruitwoods as hornbow cores, does this include plum?
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You can use most woods BUT they must glue well, steam bend well and be not overly dense. EG. 0.60sg. Absolutely straight grained with zero spiral or pin knots. Diffuse porous will make life easier too.
I have no experience with plum.
Maple, maple , maple :)
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Would that rule out cedar?
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I take it you are trying to be funny.....
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I know the best is hard maple but it doesnt grow here and I prefer to use local timbers whenever possible. Plum would be too hard then at ..61 to .79 sg?
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Plant some Maple then :) That's what the Turks did.
If you must use something that isn't perfect then go cut a straight ash and use it on the quarter.
You could also order some bamboo - there are a few good suppliers in this country now.
Plum is a bit dense and highly likely to have spiral growth and pins. Have you tested its gluing properties or ability to be steam bent?
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use non porous wood for core material. any other kind just wont hold up over time
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use non porous wood for core material. any other kind just wont hold up over time
I made a bow with an ash core that is going strong after many thousands of shots. Fraxinus excelsior.
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I've used hickory as a core many times.
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use non porous wood for core material. any other kind just wont hold up over time
I made a bow with an ash core that is going strong after many thousands of shots. Fraxinus excelsior.
If you talk to James Parker he’ll tell yah the wood will eventually break apart and look like chicklets. But I’m referring to the highly stressed asiatic and Middle East composites
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This can happen but if it does then you should've sized the core better and (likely) used a thicker mix for your first sinew layer.
Any composite is highly stressed :) The materials can only take so much and you build to be just under that limit.
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I've got to agree.Proper preperation in all facets of the build is the main key to success and knowing why what happens when it happens good and bad from building them through trial and error.
That leads to adventures in problem solving a person does'nt forget and leads to the next build being a better one without the problems.A good decent density/elasticity/absence of oil/and numero ono no. 1 a perfectly straight grained piece of wood with 0 knots or pins or swirls in grain to make it usable in most cases.
I respect James Parkers knowledge but also know what I know too.
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Whenever hes talked to me about core material, favorites are favorable for a reason. Admittedly all cores will eventually turn to chicklets lol porous woods seem to take that on faster than non.
I’m a mulberry and vinemaple guy myself.
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Well we'll have to agree to disagree Bryce.I'm going from what I've seen/used and made over the past 6 or 7 years.That would be like saying all self bows turn into firewood or dust eventually.Which is a true statement.You have a pretty despondent view point IMO.
If it's suitable for it personally I would make a self bow out of the plum myself stuckinthemud.
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As a point I think we agree in the most part. But I think we have in mind two different styles of bows in mind.
I have some 3-4mm vinemaple curing if you ever wanted to have a go at it, I could spare a few slats:)
Personally I love plum as a bow wood. A prefer it to Osage to be honest.
That internal friction and fatigue happens to all bows.
When you have how and sinew on either side of your wood, makes it hard to see how well the wood is holding up to frets and that not over time without taking it apart or cutting into it.
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No I don't think we have different bows in mind,and I've got plenty of good proven core wood around me here.If the power and tiller stay the same after 5 years of shooting and well over 10,000 arrows conservatively there is no break down at all.
A chrysall is a chrysall whether it be on a self bow or a horn bow.The bow will lose it's tiller and eventually fold.
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Lol ok man.
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Ha Ha...I'm damn near a Missourian these days....You show me exactly what your talking about.And I'll show you.
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Well I wasn’t questioning your wood choice or saying you’re doing it wrong. Just thought you might want to try a new kinda wood if you haven’t tried it yet. That’s all amigo.
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That's cool,I'm ok.
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As a point I think we agree in the most part. But I think we have in mind two different styles of bows in mind.
I have some 3-4mm vinemaple curing if you ever wanted to have a go at it, I could spare a few slats:)
Personally I love plum as a bow wood. A prefer it to Osage to be honest.
That internal friction and fatigue happens to all bows.
When you have how and sinew on either side of your wood, makes it hard to see how well the wood is holding up to frets and that not over time without taking it apart or cutting into it.
No - like I said before the bow style doesn't matter....do you think a pair of buffalo horns know that they are in a mongol bow or a Korean bow.....no they simply feel the strain that is on them. They can either take it or not.
Trust me if your core fails you did something wrong. Just like I said before.
As BowEd says when you learn something yourself, by trial and error, you tend to have conviction in what you are saying.
Cores DO NOT just break for no reason....
The reason a core would break is because it is starting to feel tension. It will only feel enough tension to break it IF the sinew isn't stuck correctly OR is too thin. Of course there may be other reasons but those are the likely candidates.
Just so you know I too have made a good few composites :) A good few failures in the beginning but I stuck at it and came through the other side haha. I'm not just spouting off....
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Yep, never argued any of those points. Wasn’t talking about the difference between asiatic bows either. All I did was suggest non porous woods for cores. Most of the books I’ve read suggest non porous woods and the people’s that I consider masters of the craft also suggested to me when I started to use nonporous woods. When I asked why that’s the reasons they gave me; they deal with internal friction well, and something about the way they absorb glue. Myself I’ve never had a bow fail. And the core and still be riddled with fractures and still shoot. James showed me a bow he took apart and from the outside looked fine. When he cut it open it was all kinds of weird I can’t remember if it was willow or something else lol to me the core is just a frame for the horn and sinew. I haven’t made enough to feel justified in pulling one apart to look either lol I think it would hurt my soul.
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Yep, never argued any of those points. Wasn’t talking about the difference between asiatic bows either. All I did was suggest non porous woods for cores. Most of the books I’ve read suggest non porous woods and the people’s that I consider masters of the craft also suggested to me when I started to use nonporous woods. When I asked why that’s the reasons they gave me; they deal with internal friction well, and something about the way they absorb glue. Myself I’ve never had a bow fail. And the core and still be riddled with fractures and still shoot. James showed me a bow he took apart and from the outside looked fine. When he cut it open it was all kinds of weird I can’t remember if it was willow or something else lol to me the core is just a frame for the horn and sinew. I haven’t made enough to feel justified in pulling one apart to look either lol I think it would hurt my soul.
Ok :) By the way I wasn't arguing I was discussing :)
I know what the books say but I've done it myself :) and know that ash works without breaking as I'm sure other woods could too.
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Same here Bryce.Just stating what I've made and seen.No malice inteneded.