Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: BowEd on March 23, 2020, 10:51:35 am
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Hello....Here's a winged elm bow completed the other day.A 64" TTT or 62.5"NTN symmetrical bow.Pulls 45#'s @ 28".I started with a 1.5" overall evenly deflexed stave.Left some deflex in handle and the fades [around 3/8" fade to fade] and reflexed the rest out from there.Left some cambium on it for camoflauge.Gave it a good deep heat treatment along the way of about 1.5 hours per limb with the limbs staying quite springy afterwards.No oil is used while heat treating.Currently rests with around 3.50" reflex with straight tips without counting the 3/8" deflexed handle.It might lose a little more through more usage,but at the rate it's losing reflex I expect it to hold where it's at.Cow horn overlays as best described as root beer color highlighted with a dyed rattan handle wrap.I use a 6 strand FF plus flemish twist double loop string at a 6 and 7/8"" to 7" brace height to the back.
A side view of the stave to show it's starting overall deflex.It's the one on the left.
(https://i.imgur.com/jVSmzVj.jpg)
Set against a large osage finished
(https://i.imgur.com/wsln0um.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TfYUoRw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iIiampd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7bfKwdW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aZxGUxV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uoH9XnL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/siq0Kab.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1I2yHmd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tEsTTVz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dq8Q160.jpg)
Robin took some pics of full draw for me.
(https://i.imgur.com/BosKxeA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sHRhOdy.jpg)
While roving a couple of afternoons shooting this bow in I ran across a 5 point shed.Possibly a 4 year old.Hopefully he'll show up next hunting season with less than a 50/50 chance of getting a shot at him....Ha Ha.But at least I'll get to watch him anyway.My find kind of pissed Robin off as she had looked high and low for sheds a week ago.
(https://i.imgur.com/UZIlaFv.jpg)
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Very nice Ed. Hope the two of you meet up with the rest of that buck this fall.
Bjrogg
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Real nice bow, Ed.
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Ed, that bow has ALL of my attention. Perfect in every way. I love it.
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Oh yea, thats a nice one.
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Great looking bow and a nice shed. Well done!
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Excellent job Ed! That un-strung profile says, “Quick!”, and the FD profile backs it up! Winded Elm is pretty good bow wood.
H
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Also, imo, that is perfect form with your drawing arm.
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Nicely done
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Thanks fellas....It was a good piece of wood with only 1 small knot by fade....and Jim it would be nice if the shot ended perfectly every time but in the real world it does'nt...Ha Ha....at least for me.As long as I come to my anchor correctly and focus correctly and follow though correctly good things usually happen.My draw arm goes there basically because it feels the most comfortable there.
Unlike some or probably most archers on here who have been archers for decades.I've been shooting for barely ten years.Deer hunting with them got me started.Otherwise deer hunting was with the good old smoke pole.
No compounds/no FG bows and virtually no mentoring of form by others previously except once in a while my 3D shooting buddies would spot for me occasionally.Basically a trial and error system mostly by myself.When spining arrows off of bows too,but did have some help locally mostly and some on the PA forum for understanding that fully.It's been a long road but still try my best to stay on top of things.
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Beautiful bow Ed, I really like the profiles and the nice colors
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Excellent bow. Very well done.
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Another beauty by Ed. Perfect like always. Like it very much 👍
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very nice Ed...
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Thanks fellas....If anything I had to want I would of liked to get a little more poundage from the bow.There's always the next one though.
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Great bow Ed, keep 'em coming ;D
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That is a fine looking bow with a beautiful tiller. I really like the way you do your handle area. Thanks again for sharing on this site.
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Excellent!
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Great bow in all respects Ed !
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Crazy reflex on that bad boy! Looks like a heck of a shooter!
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Beautiful bow Ed! I love the Siberian elm around here for bows
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Impressive amount of reflex retained on that one. Very nice.
Mike
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Thanks fellas.....This paticular piece of wood came from northern Arkansas from JonW.An expert bow maker himself.I'm in the process of getting some what the Amish call gray elm growing locally around here.The other lighter weight red elm I' tried locally here I don't care for too much.
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Real nice bow! It appears to be a natural camo pattern!
Hawkdancer
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Thanks Hawk....This elm does'nt take stain very well and I wanted to keep my snake skins back.The pretty ones are getting a little too expensive nowadays.
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Beauty!. I want winged elm now.
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That thing is sweet. Cow horn complements the bow perfectly
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You certainly did that stave justice, real nice!
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Thanks fellas.....I'm still shed hunting and shooting this bow in.No more sheds but plenty of arrows shot.It's shooting pretty good with all my shoot shafts I made lately.
It's getting ridiculously hard to find good multi colored cow horn tips any more.Otherwise their so expensive I won't buy them.I do like them a lot,and it seems others do too.Got plenty of plain old black ones and antler.Although browned antler was a choice I passed up which would of looked good too.I should just go without any overlays but have a fondness for them yet.
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Wow that’s impressive reflex. Perfect tiller on that one.
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Nice one Ed! would love to try some elm one day
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Thanks wizardgoat....My elm supply is not what I'd like it to be either.I'm going to work on that this coming year.
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Man I have to say that's one of the best full draw profiles I've seen, And have to agree that that form looks perfect
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Thanks HighEagle......I'm lucky to 3D shoot with a bunch of knowledgeable bow making fellas and we kinda keep an eye on each others flaws while shooting.We keep an eye on each others arrow flight too.
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Master piece :)
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Thanks bownarra...Not sure it's a masterpiece but appreciate the compliment.I started with a deflexed overall stave of 1.5".Reflexed it out to 5".It currently holds 3.50" after a couple hundred arrows through it.
I was curious myself how much reflex it would hold from it's deflexed starting position.In all around 50%.The deflexed position on this one did'nt hamper the final resting position after shooting it in.
I don't use a jig or heat gun holder while heat treating.I stand over top of it the whole time free handing it.Keeping it around 3.5 to 4 inches away from bow limb.Moving around a half inch along.It does a nice even thorough overall job then at least for me anyway.
This elm itself showed to be a very mallable type wood while heat treating.Unfortunately not all elm is the same.It held 100% reflex well after clamps were removed from form.In fact the shellack on the back melting actually kept the bow partially stuck to the form after clamps were removed.It took a bit longer to turn dark brown while heat treating.Thus the 1.5 hours per limb heat treatment.
All in all I've proven to myself anyway before that a bow like this will stay just as durable and resilient time wise as any moderate type design.This one will be the same.
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profiles looking so great - also the bow!
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Ed, that bow is about as perfect as can be for a whitewood self bow. Excellent work!
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Ed, that upper limb asymmetrical canted fade-out is a great way to ruin a good piece of wood. I know, I've experimented with that time and again until I got it to work. Looks like you pulled it off! Good job, sir!
For anyone that wants to attempt this, lemme warn you to not let that fade-out bend at all, not even a hint! The limb will twist and shear out. Elm's crazy interlocking grain probably helped some, but the key is gentle tillering slowly sneaking into the fade.
Again, Ed, a smashing success off your bench! You never disappoint!
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Thanks fellas...I've seen some stellar self bows on here in the past from some characterish pieces of wood.This one not much so,and this type has been shown skillfully by others on here with good success.
What you are describing JW comes with a feeling in the hand on the grip at full draw of the handle bending or moving slightly.This is not the case with this bow.Let me explain what I see going on with the bow.
There is 0 reflex put in the first 6" of limbs out from the fades.In fact there is small degree of deflex the first inch or two and more close to 6" which makes it look like it is bending into the fades at full draw.While making sure I put enough width of wood into the fades to begin with to withstand the high strain there.From a little ways outside the fades there is a gradual increase in reflex to the tips.
The outer limbs are reduced but still holding and staying flat at full draw to make it appear stiff at full draw.Not being compromised to lose their punch.A variation of a working recurve but with straight tips.It has 0 handshock with a 10 grain arrow and feels balanced at full draw which means to me it is tillered and tuned well.
One fade has more of a crown than the other somewhat to possibly make it look like a propeller but it is'nt.The bow is symmetrical and does'nt have much if any propellers overall to it.I pretty much took out any if at all while heat treating it.
I always jump at the opportunity in the past and now of a natural deflexed fade in handles from any way they have them naturally.Usually with success.
Long ago I had a 63" D/R BL's bottom half of it's handle grip pop off once from this procedure while tillering.Just smooth oned it right back on and put a rawhide handle on it.Sinew wrapped the fades.Still shooting it.Another point about that bow is that it finalized as 13.00 ounces overall.To this day I think it's the only bow that has ever done something like that."So there is a limit".My diagnosis on that one was too short of fades.Around 1.25" a piece because of all of the side tillering I did to it.This bow has 1.75" fades a piece with no side tillering done to it.
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Coming in a bit late...but thats a stunning bow in many aspects. How you concentrate that bend right after the fades...great!
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Thanks simk.You outdid yourself on the hornbow thread also.I really think this bow does the majority of it's work midlimb.
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Off course, you are right. I just meant, the bend starts right out of the fades - can't get any better.
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It can kinda look that way because of the natural deflex coming out of the fade.I left plenty of wood width wise to handle the inner limb integrity.
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Ed,
I can tell you took great care in that tillering...The unstrung profile tells the whole story...Nice!
Don
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Don...Thanks....That pretty much sums it up.
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Don....The key to this post the way I see it is to show that everyone gets to know it's piece of wood while tillering.How it reacts to things being done to it.Going very slowly.Excersizing the wood very well.Paying attention to where wood is needed and not needed.Paying attention to where the most stress is on a bow on it's length of limb according to it's design.
There is no doubt in my mind this type of bow will hold up over the long haul as well as any other design as others have here in the past.
There are other factors the wood itself has helps with this.The fact that most all good elm is very elastic.A trait in wood that Marc has stated along with others many times being of upmost importance for bow making.
It's a good piece of wood.I just wish I had more of it.