Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: 5up3rm4n on March 24, 2020, 05:18:59 pm
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I decided to start a new thread for this bow i am making. here are the pics of what i have so far
(https://i.ibb.co/HNDMv57/20200324-175906.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/DtZbPFG/20200324-175903.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/sWXgbBz/20200324-175859.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/1MV3YZp/20200324-175843.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/kSWk49W/20200324-175838.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/6mgbmYT/20200324-175827.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/thX24BT/20200324-175818.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/MMfNRpq/20200324-175824.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/djdQcD3/20200324-175801.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/wrHZXK4/20200324-175809.jpg)
any suggestions would be welcome.
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Looks like a good start. Suggestions? Post the pics in your thread instead of just links, it is a lot easier to see what is going on instead of jumping back and forth from the thread to the pic link.
Mark
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Looks like a good start. Suggestions? Post the pics in your thread instead of just links, it is a lot easier to see what is going on instead of jumping back and forth from the thread to the pic link.
Mark
I tried but i think my pics are too big and i didnt know any other way to do it with so many pics. Any opinions on the grain? Pretty sure its a good board.
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Well, I am glad you are starting a board bow but if that first photo is the back then even a backing won't save it as there just are too many run outs.
Check my site.
http://traditionalarchery101.com
Jawge
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no, thats the top limb of the belly
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I tried but i think my pics are too big and i didnt know any other way to do it with so many pics. Any opinions on the grain? Pretty sure its a good board.
You would have to downsize them to upload them to the site, but you can also link directly to the hosting site using the 'insert image' button above the text window on the left hand side under the B (for bold) button. I tried it on your links without success; you may need to do it from your logged in account for it to work properly. You need the link to be a jpg or other photo format for it to work. Just the link you posted doesn't do it for me. I use imgur for my photo hosting and it works with no problems.
As for the grain, the sides look ok (to my very inexperienced eye) but the bit of the back I can see looks like you may need to back this if you want it to survive the experience. A better shot or two of the back would help with seeing what is there.
Mark
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ok, heres the back
(https://i.ibb.co/LkTCMVp/20200324-192959.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/0ZfmBRG/20200324-193010.jpg)
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I'm going to let the experts comment (which is everyone but me, pretty much), but I think you will need to back that or chase it down to a ring and get rid of all that cathedral grain for this to not fail on the back.
Mark
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That's terrible grain even with a backing. Check my site. Jawge
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That's terrible grain even with a backing. Check my site. Jawge
Terrible? :'( I checked out your site. there arent enough reference images to make sense of some of it for me being new to this. guess i am going to fiberglas reinforce it.
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Why not just do it right? Just think straight lines on all sides. It doesn't have to be more complicated than that image.
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if you are going to use a flat or plain sawn board, (which is the orientation of the growth rings you have), then it is best to have the ring lines on the edge of the limb straight as possible. Those "flame tips" stepping down the back are a dead give away.
grain may not always run straight parrellel with the length of the board on account of sometimes grain spirals up the trunk as the tree grows, or the board may not be cut from the log true. this condition is hard to see from just looking at growth rings. a board that splits on a diagonal is an example.
one thing for sure though is that grain will not dive up and down through different years growth rings
I have had good luck with buying a split plain sawn board that had straight ringlines on the edges and ripping 3/4 by 3/4 strips parallel to the split, then flipping the pieces and gluing them together so that the edge rings are on the back and belly. if the board is sawn this way it is called quarter sawn or rift sawn. but not commonly found in the big box stores.
of course a wide board sawn from the middle of the tree will have quarter "sawn'\" ring orientation at the edges and a flat/plain sawn center.
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ok...good idea on ripping it. thanks
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I'm going to sound controversial, but you can make a working bow from that with a backing.
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I'm going to sound controversial, but you can make a working bow from that with a backing.
you most definetially can but there is no way your gonna make me shoot it. ive had too many board bows blow up in my face because of bad grain even when backed. got a scar on my chest to prove it.
id say you got a low chance of that thing surviving especially because youll bet splinters that will pull out from the back where the grain runs off.
i would just get a better board and make a bow, then trade for a bow blank that someone has made on the trading post (people are very nice). youll have much more fun with a stave or bow blank than you will with a board and youll learn a lot more.
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I have another piece of oak that i ripped off of the first one, the grain runs slightly diagonal from the corner to about half way on the opposite side(when looking at the end cut) without the "flames". the side grain on both sides are parallel with very little, if any, run out...is that a better choice, or forego this board altogether?
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Either of those pieces might work out if you add a 1/8” quarter sawn hickory or maple backing. Not sure if that’s the route you want to go, but it should make a decent bow as long as your backing is good. I would also recommend adding a power lam under the backing to help keep the handle from popping off
Hope this helps,
Taylor.
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I am going to offer a couple of suggestions, you do have to back your board, your handle transition to the limbs is much too abrupt, it WILL pop off.
As for the handle I have found if you put down a couple of 1/8" lams between your handle piece and the limbs and make your fades about 2 1/2" long your handle will stay on.
Like this, I have posted this many times before.
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I have another piece of oak that i ripped off of the first one, the grain runs slightly diagonal from the corner to about half way on the opposite side(when looking at the end cut) without the "flames". the side grain on both sides are parallel with very little, if any, run out...is that a better choice, or forego this board altogether?
not sure what you are saying as you can tell little about the grain from the end cut. some use the term grain and rings lines interchangeably but they are not the same thing and makes these discussions confusing. you can tell something about the grain from some views of the ring lines, but not everything
a pic would help
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As for the handle I have found if you put down a couple of 1/8" lams between your handle piec and the limbs and make your fades about 2 1/2" long your handle will stay on.
Eric, assuming the laminations are of similar hardness/stiffness wood as the handle wood, what do you feel they are doing for you in that assembly? Unless the glue is less stiff than the wood there should be no difference between a solid handle piece and the laminated one from what I can see. The more gradual fades will make a major difference to how well the stresses are transferred into the handle and if it stays on or not.
Mark
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I believe the multiple thin lams create greater strength in the glue lines also, further preventing the handle from popping off. That’s all I can think of. I wouldn’t ever try to make a unbacked board bow if the lines on all the sides didn’t run the length of the bow. Those boards are destined for unbacked failure.
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Look at the edge grain. Look for straight or nearly straight. A couple of run outs per limb are ok.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/boards.html
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It appears the lams can bend a little, separate of the main handle piece, all I know for sure is they work to keep a handle on. I never analyze bow making into the small individual parts, if it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't.
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Ill post pictures of the 8 foot length tomorrow and ill try to show it in all details, then you guys can tell me where to use from that length or if i should find a new board
Thanks for all the insight. :)
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It appears the lams can bend a little, separate of the main handle piece, all I know for sure is they work to keep a handle on.
Interesting. If the lams move separate from the main handle then that is due to the glue being weaker or less rigid than the wood or the lams are weaker/less rigid wood than the main handle. I like the laminations because they offer the chance to use different woods and increase the eye appeal with some colour and contrast.
Mark
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So here it is...backed by fiberglass mesh...drawing 35# at 25"...need to tiller a little bit more and need a bow string. It has a natural 2.5" set to the unstrung bow. its 62" NtN. its 1.75" wide at the fades up to about 13" on the bottom limb ant 14.5 on the top limb and narrows out to .75 at the tips. the handle is 4" long and 1.25" wide with 2" fades off of each end of the handle. Heres the pics. Opinions?
(https://i.ibb.co/Hq7wnVf/20200410-144442.jpg),(https://i.ibb.co/zNt7k1B/20200410-144449.jpg)(https://i.ibb.co/W5T399p/20200410-144456.jpg)(https://i.ibb.co/CHFVBgM/20200410-144511.jpg)
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I am new to bow building too but I can speak on this just a tiny bit. My first attempt was with a red oak board that I got from Home Depot. I read a ton of posts on here about building bows and tried to find all I could about picking the right grain. So, I was pretty confident when I found a board with seemingly straight grain.
I cut out the profile and started working down the wood a little at a time. My goal was around 65 lbs at 28 inches. I tillered and tillered and got it to bending really well! Everything was looking good. I got it to about 60 or 62 lbs at 24 inches. I was so close and then all of a sudden it snapped. It broke right down the grain. The grain that my untrained eye didn’t see cut across the board. I’m still not sure exactly what happened but I assume that, though it looked good, it was slowly weakening as I tried to get it to my goal. My brother got a pretty nice eyebrow scar from the exploding bow. I was bummed and took a break but I am back at it now.
My point is not to compare my board to yours because broken is broken. My point is that there is a ton of good resources and “teachers” on this site and a few of them have given their advice. Honestly, you will find most of the information you need to get you on the right track but I totally understand needing to see or feel for yourself before doing it different!
https://i.imgur.com/WgpAkLx.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8vc80bX.jpg
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I’m surprised it’s holding together. Sounds like a lot of set for that design. I would narrow the tips to at least 1/2” wide starting the taper from 6-8” from the nocks. Where’s the tiller pic?
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I'll post tiller pics in the morning. Thanks. Unfortunately i only have paracord for the tillering and dint want to go too far before i got a proper bowstring...online looking for one now.
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Bows that blow up can hurt. Also, in the scheme of things, wood is cheap. I wasted time on crappy, in hindsight, boards. Kiln Dried out too far oak, weak in grain hickory, b.s. maple board, etc...My second bow ever, bendy handle from a Ft Worth lumber yard, took set, but is going after8 years. Must be great grain! My suggestion is keep building, get great boards, and you'll be much better off.