Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: Ricardovanleeuwen on March 30, 2020, 02:14:17 pm
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I start this topic to post pictures of the arrows i make , also for my self to see the first Arrow and compacte It to future arrows ;D and ask questions when having one. At the moment my biggest problem is the fletching. I tried 2 (whole and partly feathers) and 3 feathers fletch. For the 3 fletch i tried with only tying the ends but then the arrows are so loud,not that i intens to Hunt with Them already but i dont like the sound and it sounds like It alles the arrows down. Them i tried to glue Them between the binding but they keep popping loose and then there is a gap between the Shaft and Arrow. I tried to glue with only the front part tied down and when i also tie the rear i pull the feather tightly so the gap should tighten op also but It dont help. Anny tips? Here Comes a few pics.
First is the problem, second is a bone point i made from soup bone. Other pics are from few different point styles i try and whole arrows i i made
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What type of glue are you using? And, is there a finish on the arrows thst you're trying to glue the fletches to?
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Last glue is called 100% repair gel glue aso used contact glue and super (fast dry ) glue
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No finish btw
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No finish btw
yeah if you didnt scrape the outer layer then it shoulden't need a finish. one of the perks of cane
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No cane used, its dogwood and rose
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Ricardo...If you want to secure them arrow heads really good you need to make some pine pitch glue.There's a U tube in primitive skills section called Isaacs' pine pitch tutorial.
Hide glue works well for securing those feathers too.I should do a build along on making hide glue sometime.Got the pictures yet.
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Thanks for the advise, i forgot to mention that i tried hide glue too but i Will try again with fresh made because i think i messed up with the glue i made earlyer because finding the good amount of water to add is a bit hard. I did glue the points with 100% repair
gel glue wich seems to still do its job but is quite expensive. The closest forest for Pine pits isnt within walking or bike distance and i have a low budget at the moment so driving with the car ain't an option top so that have to wait. Now An Idea falls out of the sky, isnt It right that the Pine pitch glue is kind of moldet around the wrapping and point? Of so, would It also work to wrap toilet paper surrsated with wallpaper glue around It and seal with pva glue?
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Well, this isn't "primitive" but if you are just getting started and are trying to keep it inexpensive this works pretty good. For the binding of the feathers and the points I use regular Elmers carpenters glue watered down a bit with cotton sewing thread. Paint the glue on, wrap the thread, paint again and then wipe off the excess.
You could try Hot glue to mount your points. Cut off a piece of the hot glue tube, heat it in a spoon, dip the arrowhead in it and then quickly mount it.
That will get you started and won't break your budget.
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Hand fletching is tricky!
Get a piece of stiff leather, plastic, cardboard etc cut a 3" circle out of it.
Cutting a hole in the centre the diameter of your arrow shafts.
Then make three cuts with a sharp knife radiating out from the centre hole. The cuts should be equally spaced around the circle eg. 120 degrees apart.
With a bit of adjustment these can be used to hold your feathers in place whilst they are being glued.
If you make two you can use one for the front of the feather and one at the back. You can get good results with these 'tools'.
Hide glue is a good cheap glue that you can make yourself easily. It is very strong and actually a very good fletching glue once you get the hang of using it.
Superglue works for fletching but you would really need a fletching jig to use it.
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These arrows i did yesterday, the right one is only wrapped, the others are glued from the side after i wrapped, the tape is because i used threat that was too thick so It would hurt my finger.
I also made a point from a broken potato knife and its really good at penetrating and can fit on thinner shafts, one of my better arrows have the point. Almost hitted a rabbit with It today also, then i couldnt find my "best Arrow" so i was kind of in panic (lol). But after some more searching i found It back
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Do annyone know how much that shoots raise in spine from Just harvested to half year or year inside? At the moment im sitting with tooth picks , atlatel darts and everything inbetween
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This is a vague answer but they stiffen up quite a bit. I've only used a few different shoots but they all seemed to stiffen differently so I can't give a definitive answer. Cut them at about 3/8"(1cm) and cut them long then you can move up or down the shoot to find the spine you want. Cobble up a spine tester. I saw one that was two nails and a two lb bunch of bananas.
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This is a vague answer but they stiffen up quite a bit. I've only used a few different shoots but they all seemed to stiffen differently so I can't give a definitive answer. Cut them at about 3/8"(1cm) and cut them long then you can move up or down the shoot to find the spine you want. Cobble up a spine tester. I saw one that was two nails and a two lb bunch of bananas.
with spine tester do you mean the real thing with the scale like pointer and the diagram or Just 2 nails and a weight and a ruler? I have the second one, 2 nails in work bench, a piece of brick Duc,close to 2lb (weighted on human scale, dont got kitchen scale) taped on an hook with a pointer pointing sideways to a piece of tape measure.
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I’m a simple arrow fletcher and 9/10 times make mine two fletch Native American style with my own little twist on them. As for the noise. If your feathers protrude out from the shaft a lot they will wade in the air.
Here’s my style of hand fletching goose feathers. I don’t mind the small gap between the feather and the shaft. After trimming them down they fly straight and quiet.
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This is a vague answer but they stiffen up quite a bit. I've only used a few different shoots but they all seemed to stiffen differently so I can't give a definitive answer. Cut them at about 3/8"(1cm) and cut them long then you can move up or down the shoot to find the spine you want. Cobble up a spine tester. I saw one that was two nails and a two lb bunch of bananas.
with spine tester do you mean the real thing with the scale like pointer and the diagram or Just 2 nails and a weight and a ruler? I have the second one, 2 nails in work bench, a piece of brick Duc,close to 2lb (weighted on human scale, dont got kitchen scale) taped on an hook with a pointer pointing sideways to a piece of tape measure.
That sounds like it should work as long as you get repeatable results.
I would trim your fletch a little closer. Mine are about 12 mm high.
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I’m a simple arrow fletcher and 9/10 times make mine two fletch Native American style with my own little twist on them. As for the noise. If your feathers protrude out from the shaft a lot they will wade in the air.
Here’s my style of hand fletching goose feathers. I don’t mind the small gap between the feather and the shaft. After trimming them down they fly straight and quiet.
when you do the 2 fletch, you put the feathers with the curve away from the Shaft or toward?
And @ DC ik try trimmimg Them down, as for the spine tester, ik scraping heaps of Wood away with so little difference on the ruler, is there An easy way to
Make it so that It is easyer to see?
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What do you mean the curve? I lay the feather so the underside of the feather is against the shaft. If you noticed I do a 90 degree twist to my fletchings.
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, as for the spine tester, ik scraping heaps of Wood away with so little difference on the ruler, is there An easy way to
Make it so that It is easyer to see?
Not really, you need a pretty accurate way of measuring. Here's a tutorial. You said you had a needle indicator on yours. This tutorial will show you how to calibrate it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl3oY5dfiH4
Take a look at it and see if this helps. If not we'll dig deeper :D
http://tattooartdesign.blogspot.com/
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I measure like on the foto, with needle i mean shapened point to say how much milimeter. A good shooting fletched Arrow bends like 12 mm (0 point is at 4.2 cm) when i shoot a bare Shaft with same flex It hits the left edge of the target ( shot multiple Times).
Also the other fletched arrows wich i more accuratly gave the same spine, trimmed the feathers a bit, so hitted the middle of the target twice in a row, so It seems like 12 mm flex is good with feathers and without the spine seems to weak
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If the arrow has the proper spine it will go straight bare shafting. The fletching just makes it a little better. Don't fret too much about spine for now. If you can get a fletched arrow to go where you want and fly straight you are doing fine. Save the more detailed spining until you are really in the mood and have figured out the spiner so you have no doubt in the results. Do a bunch of searching for "Spining arrows" and "make your own spiner". I made mine with just stuff from around the shop. People made arrows without a spiner for thousands of years. To tell you the truth if you are just an average or even above average archer you really won't see a big improvement from spining.
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Here's some pictures of mine. Second picture is an eccentric to adjust the zero point for each arrow. Chart and gauge face I printed off the net.
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I know your right about the people before us but im kind of perfectionistic when it comes to some things, like if the Arrow is perfect, then there is only one to blame when missed, and that's the shooter
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And nicely made ,smart think to make the thing to set to 0.
This is till now my best looking Arrow i made so far, ik like the point, Nice Shaft without to Manny knots, and the fletching is glued and wrapped
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Ricardo, the set up you have for testing looks like it might be difficult to keep consistent. if you put two blocks on top of your bench to put your arrow across, then lean a weight on it so that you get about 1 cm deflection with your best shooting arrow. cut a long thin shim wedge and mark the spot where you best arrow makes contact when the shim is slid underneath.
the trick with natural arrows is going to be if you turn the arrow it will test different on each side. so check your arrows in different positions to find the stiff side and also you might want to see if an arrow has an unusually soft side. after a while you will be able to tell from bending in your hand without using the "tester". keep the stiffest side towards the bow and make the knocks accordingly.
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I do put the stiffest side to the bow, i cut the nocks that way as good as possible, need to to work on that exacly 90degrees of stiffest side cut because sometimes its a bit turned
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I did re Read your message but do i need to get the average of all sides ? I always scraped til there was a stiffest 12 milimeter side
The thing with the wedges is smart, should make it
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working with stiffest side is best. I am going to edit my post above. I like arrows without too much differences between sides, although expecting an arrow to measure exactly the same on each side may be asking too much.
Edited for clarity.
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Ah oke didn't know that, so i should take a shoot witch is all around a Lil bit above spine weight and reduce Them till the stiffest side is on right weight?
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yes :)
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Last week the police stopped my car because they suspected me from illigal hunting, partly because someone from this forum roported the picture of the poor coot that swim right where my Arrow was going to land.( Thanks and best wishes to that silly person). The police conviscated my arrows because the points (broadheads) arent alowed in my country. I need to make field points, i dont have acces to empty bullet sleeves and have verry low budget. Is It An option top Carve a point om the shaft and then Haft a metal point wich is matched to the point on the Shaft? Like to make the Shaft point stronger and add weight?
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Primitive archery and archer its great and all Ricardovanleeuwen but please, keep it within the law.
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maybe you can make the tip flat and wrap it really well and glue a layer of fabric to the flat tip??
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Primitive archery and archer its great and all Ricardovanleeuwen but please, keep it within the law.
when the police stopped me i wasnt hunting, i was walking with my dog and shooting stumps.
And i like to have atleast some sort of point so my target dont get ripped apart, also when a point hit something It gets stuck in It, without a point It van bounce in whatever direction resulting in a broken/lost Arrow
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yeah if you hang canvas up and you shoot it with a blunt, it wont stick. it hits it and falls
I just mean if your country says no broadheads, maybe you just dont make them. :OK
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What i mean is like a reinforcend sharpened shaft
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What are your arrows made of. You can taper the end and burn it black and wrap wire around an inch or so behind the point for weight. Fire hardened points are pretty sturdy on a hardwood shoot.
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At the moment i have rosé shoot shafts wich im working on since the lighter weight so the instinctive vertical aiming is less important, they are also easyer to straighten then dogwood. When i got like 12 good shooting fletched rosé arrows il start on the dogwood. I also have a few Hazel and bird Cherry shoots drying but they seem to be way more flexibele at the same diameter
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You can get screw in tips for aluminum and carbon arrows. If your arrow has a pith(I think rose does) the tips will slip right in with a bit of thick CA or epoxy. Be sure to wrap the shaft with thread to prevent splitting.
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Good thought, DC. I've done that before with cane arrows and it works. Also, a duplex nail with the double head ground to a point and the shank inserted in the pith. You may have to drill out the pith first.
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news but those hafted heads are gonna bounce right off a deer ... you have to have a smooth transition from haft to point with no bulge at haft or its not going to penetrate.. found that out the hard way...gut
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I dont use these kind of points annymore because im suspected for having illigal weapon since these kind of Arrowheads were against the laws...
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My latest dogwood arrows, finaly found my glue of choice for the fletching, hot glue from a glue gun
The arrows with the collored bands below the wrapping are the ones who fly good most of the time.
Tonight i tried the glow in the dark tape on Them in the hope to see a flying light bolt but once in the air its invissible for the Shooter at least. I think they Comes in handy when searching for Them in the dark. I should try put a thin strip in the nock for when there is barely daylight left..
The Paint i dyed the top of the shaft with is nail polish and some glitter stuff i found by the big trash bin on a parking lot by a shopping centre (i see myself as a neo hunter- gatherer, learned because there were Times i had no better option, wich got me really creatieve)
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Forgot the pic
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Found a few dogwood shafts :P
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Broke my fly smasher today and came up with An Idea, still have to wait till my bow is finnished