Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: BowEd on April 10, 2020, 03:40:10 pm

Title: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: BowEd on April 10, 2020, 03:40:10 pm
I've seen 1 other tutorial about making this glue but from dog chews.I used beef & deer rawhide scraps and sinew scraps.I save them all from accoutrament projects and sinewing bows.They accumulate faster the more projects I do.
This time I started with a container holding around 4 pounds of scraps.I was going to use large stainless steel pot on right but used a regular 1 gallon steel can instead.
(https://i.imgur.com/JQ7WzGI.jpg)
This container fills a steel gallon can 2 times 3/4er's full and makes 1 first pouring of glue from each one.First pourings makes your strongest glue.I top the can off with water.Turn stove on low and bring temperature up to around 160 F.Not over 180 F.Too hot can weaken the glue.Once up to temp I cover it to prevent a skin from forming on top.
(https://i.imgur.com/Zu5JcOH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nID7FYK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/h3Fhcb4.jpg)
I simmer it around 6 hours each at that temperature to get 1 first pouring each.Any impurities will float to the top and can be skimmed off with a spoon.
I have a miracle whip jar that I cut the center out of but left the threads on the lid with cheese cloth to strain the glue through while pouring.Cotton T- shirt fabric can work too.The amount of water in steel can fills this jar just right.Around 48 fl. ounces and it fills a normal cookie sheet lined with a plastic garbage bag just right then too each time at 1/2" thick glue.
(https://i.imgur.com/WauN28U.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/peHPo8W.jpg)
I set cookie sheet out in 45 F. to gell,or putting it into refrigerator can hurry it up too.Nice light blonde colored glue.If your glue is dark you cooked it at too high a temperature.It does'nt totally mean the darker glue is worthless or anything.Still plenty strong enough to do simple composite bows.The lighter colored glue though will be your strongest type glue.I use it on more extremely reflexed bows with good consistent success.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ka81elw.jpg)
Then after it gells cut it up into 1/2" squares with pocket knife.It'll be like jello if you've ever had that.
(https://i.imgur.com/16GpKwx.jpg)
I then spread them out on a garbage bag to dry.I put a fan on them.It'll take a full day or two to harden and dry.It can be reconstituted any time for use after that with water.
(https://i.imgur.com/2jg5IoD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Ruzmd7o.jpg)
From the two pourings I got 9.5 ounces.Enough to do 4 to 5 bows.I guess my average would be for every pound of rawhide 2.5 ounces of hide glue is made.
Grinding up the hide scraps to very smaller or pulverized pieces before heating them up can get you more glue too.
(https://i.imgur.com/js3DgxF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FxNHDdF.jpg)
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: JEB on April 11, 2020, 10:24:29 am
With all your knowledge about stuff, you need to write  a book.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: Pat B on April 11, 2020, 10:39:00 am
Thanks Ed. Great info.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: Deerhunter21 on April 11, 2020, 11:22:58 am
With all your knowledge about stuff, you need to write  a book.


Yes!!! that would be an amazing book! Im going to add this to the binder i got from Pat!!
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: BowEd on April 11, 2020, 03:23:09 pm
Thanks fellas.Hope sometime you might try it.
I try to show to use most anything handy anyone might have around to use to make this stuff.
All except the laser thermometer.Did'nt really cost much but I'm glad I got it anyway.Without it I'd say to not let it boil just simmer and steam just below a low rolling boil.Covering while it's being heated prevents a skin from forming on top.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: osage outlaw on April 11, 2020, 08:05:58 pm
Good looking glue Ed.  I have a bunch of scraps that need cooked.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: BowEd on April 12, 2020, 08:45:55 am
I'm sure you do Clint.Have you found something to do with your irish long haired beef hide yet?
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: osage outlaw on April 12, 2020, 12:54:08 pm
Not yet Ed.  Still in the freezer.  Haven't found time to tan it yet.  I called the nearest tannery to get a price for all the hides in my freezer this winter.   The tannery was shutting down and. It accepting new jobs.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: BowEd on April 12, 2020, 02:41:19 pm
I'll have to check on the tannery to the north of me 3 hours that I referred other farmers to here with there beef hides to be tanned.They did them in the past at around $10.00 a square foot.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: DC on April 13, 2020, 10:34:50 am
Ed, do you throw your sinew scraps in with the rawhide or do you make a separate glue with sinew scraps?
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: BowEd on April 13, 2020, 02:48:47 pm
I usually throw both sinew and hide scraps together to make my glue.I see no special reason of any kind that make one material better than another.They both gell approximately at the same time.Maybe you have thoughts or even experiences of your own on the subject?
I have not fooled with much sturgeon palate glue though as I hear it does gell slower which they say is a key to it's strength.I do have fish bladder glue though.I control my gelling of hide and sinew glue by keeping it warm enough in my enviornment to slow the gelling down.
As with most all glues proper surface preperation for specific different types of glue on wood or horn is the key to success as most glues will do their job if we do ours properly.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: DC on April 13, 2020, 06:29:24 pm
I've only ever made hide glue but I'm building up a small store of sinew scraps. I just wasn't sure if it was worth making a separate pot of sinew glue. I'll throw them all in the same pot. I would probably get them mixed up later anyway :D
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: BowEd on April 14, 2020, 05:11:48 am
That might be the way to go for you.I have and do make quite a few things out of rawhide too myself so the supply of glue making material can accumulate rather quickly.There's always a bit of waste while sinewing a bow too.Especially if a person does it the dry stripping way.Not as much waste the wet stripping way.
My gauge for that came to about a pound of rawhide and sinew material gave me 2.5 ounces of hide glue.That's enough to do a bow.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: Aaron H on May 01, 2020, 07:45:05 pm
Great work Ed. Nice color on those, especially the batch to the right.  Was there any difference in the way you cooked the two batches?

Also I imagine you soak the rawhide prior to cooking?
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: BowEd on May 04, 2020, 06:22:51 am
Thanks Aaron....The darker batch got heated a little too hot in the beginning of the process thus it came out darker in color.Still usable and plenty strong yet for most simple composite bows.The lighter the color the better.
I only did 1 pour off each batch.More cooking and more pourings are possible for more glue but the quality may suffer then too.
I did pre soak the rawhide overnight before cooking it down to glue.The thicker the rawhide the more soaking time.
Pulverizing the rawhide into smaller pieces would help to extract more glue during cooking too.
Using hide scrapings from dry scrape dehairing is perfect stuff to use.It breaks down quicker with less heat.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: DC on May 04, 2020, 11:27:16 am
Assuming it's had a long enough cooking time does it matter how thin it is when you pour it off? Other than a longer drying time? Does it affect the quality of the glue?
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: BowEd on May 05, 2020, 07:10:59 am
I pour it off about as thin or thinner as it is when using it to size and sinew bows.Like thin maple syrup consistency.
I see no reason for it to affect the quality.It's just a moisture difference.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: Aaron H on May 05, 2020, 01:46:01 pm
I prefer to leave the glue a little thin when I pour mine off, it makes it easier to strain out all the impurities.  Just takes a bit longer to evaporate out the additional moisture.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: BowEd on May 06, 2020, 08:24:09 am
I usually use scrap pieces of rawhide from dry scraping deer and beef hides.No salt/oil or any other contaminates are on them since I handled them myself from a fresh state.There is'nt much to speak of for impurities to skim off while heating.Less than a tablespoon.
Like Aaron said pouring it while thinner through cheese cloth or T-shirt will get rid of every bit of impurities.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: JW_Halverson on May 08, 2020, 12:19:15 pm
Did you ever get around to experimenting with the black hide glue I made with the oak bark tannins for water proofing?
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: BowEd on May 10, 2020, 05:27:47 am
No I have not JW,but I will sometime.Looks like a good batch.Personally I think it will deter pests from chewing on it.I certainly don't think it inhibits the strength any.Not sure if it makes it any more water proof,but probably.I think smoking a sinewed bow above a fire in a tipi would do just as good if not better.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: Sammakesbows on August 26, 2020, 10:08:00 pm
How much does doing this smell? I did this once outside but i wasted quite a bit of gas, would do it inside on the stove is I could.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: DC on August 27, 2020, 09:42:47 am
That would depend on your/your wifes nose. It didn't smell at all to me. It's just making broth.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: Sammakesbows on August 29, 2020, 10:25:39 pm
That would depend on your/your wifes nose. It didn't smell at all to me. It's just making broth.
Ha ha well im not married. I have 5 other people in my family including my parents, grandmother, and siblings so I need to know this. Lol
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: DC on August 30, 2020, 09:31:22 am
Use a slow cooker and do it outside. It won't harm the cooker. Like I said, it's just making broth.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: JW_Halverson on August 30, 2020, 01:26:32 pm
Use a slow cooker and do it outside. It won't harm the cooker. Like I said, it's just making broth.

HOWEVER! ...and this is a big one! Do NOT leave the finished product in the ceramic crock part of the slow cooker. And do NOT just pour it out and leave it unwashed.

I did this and the hide glue pulled the glazed finish off the inside of the crockery and ruined it! Hide glue is poured onto sheets of glass and it pulls up spalls of glass off the surface to make that fancy frostmarked glass. And about 1 our of 4 sheets shatters from the hide glue contracting and creating too much tension for the glass to handle.

Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: DV IN MN on August 31, 2020, 07:30:00 am
Ed
Have you or any other members used a palm sander to sand down rawhide to make hide dust to process into hide glue? I tried it on a deer hide that had the hair on and my dust was too impure to make good glue. But I think it would work, but not sure if there would be any time saving from the process of sanding then process into glue vs just processing it into glue. Too protect the croc have you ever tried the broaster inserts is what I think they are called. It is the plastic product that you line your pot with prior to making a roast or a turkey to provide quick and easy clean up? Not sure but might safe the pot and provide quicker cleaning.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: DC on August 31, 2020, 10:17:58 am
It washes up real easy. If you've got somewhere else to be just fill the pot with water.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: BoisBrule on October 01, 2020, 01:23:15 pm
I may have missed this, and if I did, I apologize.

Do you dry your scraps for storage? Freeze them?
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: DC on October 05, 2020, 11:09:00 am
Either.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: Fox on November 03, 2020, 08:44:19 pm
I just tried making a batch from rawhide dog bone scrapes... and it isnít at all sticky.. I have stuff that I bought a while ago and it works and itís real sticky... the stuff I made is a creamy color itís been cooking for 6 hours at 170 ... it gells but itís not sticky at all there was one point when it went over 170  could that have been the problem ?
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: DC on November 04, 2020, 10:25:14 am
Is it about the consistency of syrup? I'm thinking it's too thin and you need to cook it a little longer.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: Fox on November 04, 2020, 11:20:55 am
Okay Iíll try... after cooling itís about the consistency of pudding
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: DC on November 05, 2020, 10:33:19 am
It should be like light syrup when it's warm. All I've ever used is dog chew rawhide.
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: Fox on November 05, 2020, 06:53:05 pm
Another question... how do you rehydrate it?
Title: Re: Making hide & sinew glue from scraps
Post by: DC on November 06, 2020, 11:34:17 am
Add water and wait ;D Usually overnight is how I do it. Then I heat it on one of those little coffee mug warmers. Once I've used what I need I freeze the left over. The last couple of times I used it I microwaved it to warm it up. There may be room to screw up here but I watched it carefully so it didn't boil.