Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PatrickH on May 25, 2020, 07:36:24 pm
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This is my first attempt at a bow from a stave I fell and split myself (having only done a few board bows in the past) I am trying to follow the wobble of the grain and make it a little bit of a character bow. This is a 64in elm flatbow, its about 2in at the fades and goes down to 1.5 in 7in from the knocks and then tapers to .5in nocks. The 4in handle is 1.25in wide and I was hoping to make it bend slightly at full draw. The picture below is the bow at brace height (4in I don't mind a low brace height and I figure its easier on the bow) The bows wobble makes the arrow only off from centershot by 1/4in. The picture of the bow drawn is 53lbs@15in. My goal is 55@29in. One of the limb tips has a large knot and caused a bit of reflex at the tip, so I steam bent it straight. That is the only heat treating I have done so far. The handle doesn't bend yet, I read I should do that towards the end, when do you guys think I should get that bending more? Also does the design seem sound? And how does the tiller look so far? Sorry for all the questions lol.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49936697357_9b8c7a2e3c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j5JCmD)101096273_294089548659987_2102406544594305024_n (https://flic.kr/p/2j5JCmD) by patrick holmes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188614452@N04/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49935881513_c9e3071c37.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j5ErQn)99294087_1130710340597696_5354620768275660800_n (https://flic.kr/p/2j5ErQn) by patrick holmes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188614452@N04/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49936396056_01a37fbece_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j5H5MN)99160500_541902449830404_8635679116143624192_n (https://flic.kr/p/2j5H5MN) by patrick holmes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188614452@N04/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49936389281_0e51528f47_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j5H3LZ)99140955_727049248051526_6202721301354774528_n (https://flic.kr/p/2j5H3LZ) by patrick holmes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188614452@N04/), on Flickr
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Looks pretty cool, kinda reminds me of a holmgrard style.. I am undoubtedly new so wait for someone with experience to chime in, but my crappy tillering eyes sees right limb a little stiffer then left, and both limbs needing to bend more in the last 2/3?
-Fox
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Defiantly got the primitive look, Patrick
It would be easier to comment on your tillering if we had a side view unbraced to see if you are starting with one limb more reflexed or deflexed than the other.
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here is the unbraced profile. The tip with the large knot was naturally reflexed, I steam bent it straight and it is at correct angle now but it is still set back a 1/4in.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49936752231_200b54c08b_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j5JUEK)101441283_1221476978188873_2617199284583399424_n (https://flic.kr/p/2j5JUEK) by patrick holmes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188614452@N04/), on Flickr
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looking like a fairly straight stave from the side. I agree with fox that you should leave the middle alone for a while, but it looks like the bow might be flipped left and right in one of the photos. so..... is the knot at the tip the "top" or bottom. you don't have to actually decide now, just help us out if one of the photos needs to be fixed.
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Oh! it is flipped in the picture of it just at brace height my bad, maybe I can fix that on flickr. I was going to make the big knot on top, because the string lines up closer to centershot on the handle if i do that (and the knot looks neat so I wanted it up to show it off lol)
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ok, knot on top and ignoring the brace pic for now, I would say the bottom limb need to be worked on first
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I think 64" is a little short for an constantly drawlength of 29" with a non-bending handle...
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My plan is to have it bend in the handle, I just read that you should make the handle bend last. Is that the correct method?
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It is the way I would tiller it. 29@64 is doable if you have enough width for your poundage. but it will still be a challenge.
Get a nice even bend going in the limbs, with it bending a bit flatter thru the handle for now. I think the string angle changing as you draw it out works the handle harder towards full draw.
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+1
what willie said!
Maybe this is useful for you: http://primitive-bows.com/elm-flat-with-cherry-bark-handle-5628-no-35/
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Simson that is a pretty bow. I dont know if I am brave enough to make my tips that small lol. But i bet it shoots like a dream.
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Alright so I have been working slow with just a cabinet scraper, I have it to 53lbs@20in. goal is still 50-55@29. When would you guys start making the handle bend?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49971069943_8c83d3d56a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j8LN8r)20 (https://flic.kr/p/2j8LN8r) by patrick holmes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188614452@N04/), on Flickr
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Hey Patrick, Its coming along really nicely. How is the set developing? That will help tell you if the limbs are getting stressed too much at any particular area.
I personally wouldn't bother with a bend through the handle with this design(though it is possible, and you have a 29" draw). The tips are pretty stiff at the moment, and you could get a bit more draw length, by getting them to do a bit more work.
I would wait until you get to 24-25", then reassess how its looking, then maybe start to carefully remove some wood from the handle/fade area.
Once again the set will tell you where avoid removing wood and where it could bend more.
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Once again the set will tell you where avoid removing wood and where it could bend more.
yes . the set will guide you as you go further, not only with your tillering, but with your deciding how much to let the handle bend or not.
I would trace the unbraced back profile on a piece of cardboard to use as a future reference to monitor set.
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About a foot out on the right limb, do I see a little too much bend? Could be a sprig of grass messing with my eyes :D
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So the bottom limb has taken about 1in of set it looks like mostly just below the handle (an early hinge area i haven't touched most of the time I have been working that limb) The top limb has always had a slight jog back (.5in) due to a natural deflex in the last 4in of it that I steam bent to at least be at the correct angle to the rest of the limb, but it still jogs towards the belly half an inch naturally. that limb has taken an inch of set but also has that .5 that was always there, that brings it to 1.5in (if that makes sense? I will include a picture.) The top limb seems to have taken the most set 1/3 the way up from the handle, which is the place it currently is bending the most on that limb (I think the place DC is pointing out.) Which is another place that just started to develop a slight hinge and I have been avoiding recently. Thanks guys I never thought to tiller based upon areas with set I guess that makes sense though, is it because set develops in the places that have been stressed the most? Is 1in of set this early too much?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49971951286_a140cbee1d_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j8Rj81)UB20 (https://flic.kr/p/2j8Rj81) by patrick holmes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188614452@N04/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49972212612_b72206c7e1_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2j8SDNC)Tip (https://flic.kr/p/2j8SDNC) by patrick holmes (https://www.flickr.com/photos/188614452@N04/), on Flickr
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I currently have the last 7in stiff on each limb, is that too long of a stiff outer limb? how far up more should I make it bend? It starts to get narrower at that point.
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I never thought to tiller based upon areas with set I guess that makes sense though, is it because set develops in the places that have been stressed the most?
Yes, excess stress is the culprit. The trick is to be straining the limb evenly, and to have the set taken evenly.
Is 1in of set this early too much?
you would rather not have the bow take any set, but if it does happen, having it happen just as you arrive at your drawlength is preferable to happening earlier.
One consideration is that if an area near the handle takes set it will show as more deflex if you only look at how far the tips have set back.
One advantage to tracing the limb early and making comparisons as you go, is that you can see if set is happening evenly or locally.
The goal to strain the limb evenly is improved upon when the bowyer decides it is better to avoid set in the inner limbs and only push the outers to the point of taking set.
getting the tips moving a bit more if they are stiff and working the bend back into a stiff handle is a technique to having to remove too much wood in the major working portions of the limbs. At some point, if one has chosen too high of a weight goal. he may have to reduce his expectations or live with more set than desired.
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I appreciate it. Thats good advice.