Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Fox on May 29, 2020, 01:09:02 pm
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I want to start bow hunting , i have been shooting bows consistently for 3 years.. And hunt with a rifle ... but i am young and go with more experienced hunters... but i don't have any bow hunters around to go with... should i wait till i am more expereinced and just go by myself? Ideas? Thanks
-Fox
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If you can find someone to go with that would be better, safer but if not go by yourself. It may take you a while before you figure it out but you'll never kill a deer(or whatever) unless you go hunting. If you are a stand hunter place your stand near a game trail(about 10 to 15 yds off) with plenty of cover and stay alert. With a rifle you probably hunt open areas. With a bow you need to be close, let the deer get close and all along concentrate on where the arrow will go and take your first shot opportunity. If you can see a deer's eyes he will see you, if you move, he will see you so wait til everything is in your favor and the deer is where you can put the arrow through the boiler room. Study a deer's anatomy so you'll know where to put the arrow. Be sure the deer is calm too. An alert deer is faster than your arrow.
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Beginner's luck is real. Be ready on Day One, Hour One.
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Practice! Lots of it! Like Pat said set your stand or blind in good cover downwind from the trail, be alert, the world needs more lerts, a long shot is 15-20 yards if you can hit that boiler room. Good luck! Maybe this is my year, too!
Hawkdancer
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My advice would be to just get on the board first with a kill of any sized deer.It gives you confidence for your next outing.Being persistent.Pay attention to wind directions.A quartering away shot to the side of your bow arm.Set your stands up in that way.I like to let the deer walk past me quartered away.On the ground type shot broadside is fine.
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Okay thanks guys....
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Find a place with deer movement and do a few sits, without a weapon, and see what it's all about. When the situation presents itself you could do a fake draw and release to see if you can without the deer seeing you. See how close the deer will get to you without spooking. By hunting season you will be used to being out there and it will probably help you relax and concentrate on the situation at hand.
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Find a place with deer movement and do a few sits, without a weapon, and see what it's all about. When the situation presents itself you could do a fake draw and release to see if you can without the deer seeing you
Use a camera and post here the pictures for us voyeurs (lol)
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Lots of good info here, but the best way is to just get out there and do it, you will learn, may take some time,lots of ups and downs but it will come if you just keep at it.If you have anyone you know that does it, hunting with them would be a big help also, if not just go do it. :)
Pappy
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When I go to a new area I walk over it first to look for deer trails, food sources and bedding areas. After the initial look see I start what I call scout hunting, I set up and watch, often several days under different conditions. Doing this I might hear deer on across the hollow that never come my way, at which point I move my scout/hunt location to get closer to the action.
One thing to remember is your best chance to kill a deer in a location is the first time you sit it, after you go there once your scent is there and and your chances diminish. For this reason find a number of possible stand locations and rotated them. Unless you are on a really hot food source it is best not to go back to a place for two weeks or so.
Above all, play the wind and walk in to your area as quietly as you can. If you set up a treestand do it in slow motivation and don't clank anything, deer flee from unnatural sounds.
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Different areas require different tactics. So I will only talk about where I hunt. Public land along the Jacks Fork river. In a year when there are few acorns the deer feed in the bottom then work their way up on the ridges to bed.
I never want to go where the deer are, I want to go where they will be coming to. Hence in the morning I will set up on a trail near the top of the ridge. In the evening I’m on a trail in the bottom. It is so brushy there that the deer tend to use trails pretty regular. Most people won’t hunt there because of the brush.
In a year with lots of acorns all bets are off. They feed and bed up on the hillsides. As you hunt an area more you learn spots that are consistent producers. It’s always more difficult when your hunting a new area.
Shoot straight, Woody
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Thanks pappy, woody, and Eric and everyone else... So my much good advice, never met a better comunity then the people that love the woods and the animals and the primitive ways of using them.
-Fox
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(I'm going to have to print this page out and put it in my note book!)
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So I've been spending a bunch of time in the woods i plane to hunt. Lots of scouting and marking places on the map. So i built a blind In a holler between two spur ridges coming off the mountain, theres water, some big oaks, a few hickorys , and a few beach trees.... There's a deer trail about 10 yards from my blind, but other then that not a lot of sign of deer, I've done one sit out there without a bow. Nothing but some squirrels. As I was hiking up the ridge to the right at the top there seemed to be more trails and more scate... So should i move up there and do a sit? Or do more sits in the holler to see if anyhing shows up? Thanks
-Fox
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Look for the places where the trails converge. how fresh is the scat, what is the wind pattern? Can you set up down wind and either level or slightly downhill, is there enough cover for a blind? Make notes in your log and take some gps readings! Mark the area on a map, if you can. Remember, too, batteries go dead at bad times! I still carry a 1:24,000 map and a compass of my hunting area!
Hawkdancer
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Okay that makes sence Hawkdancer... the scate wasnt perticularly fresh, but thre was more there than ive seen on the whole mountain.... all compase and topo maps for me!
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I killed a selfbow while I was just sitting in front of a tree. If you can also have a tree front, and sides that's great. Be alert and sit still. Jawge
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I like to sit with a couple big trees out front and to the sides. When the tree is between me and their eyeball I do my moving if I need to.
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Different areas require different tactics. So I will only talk about where I hunt. Public land along the Jacks Fork river. In a year when there are few acorns the deer feed in the bottom then work their way up on the ridges to bed.
I never want to go where the deer are, I want to go where they will be coming to. Hence in the morning I will set up on a trail near the top of the ridge. In the evening I’m on a trail in the bottom. It is so brushy there that the deer tend to use trails pretty regular. Most people won’t hunt there because of the brush.
In a year with lots of acorns all bets are off. They feed and bed up on the hillsides. As you hunt an area more you learn spots that are consistent producers. It’s always more difficult when your hunting a new area.
Shoot straight, Woody
I love the jacks fork! Never hunted there but I have at the sunk lands
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Early in life I was a logger. Worked and hunted quite a bit around the sunklands. I was raised in Winona in Shannon county. Here people think I’m a hillbilly, back home I’m just a normal person.
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I've winter floated a lot down there but I live in st.charles county. If I could convince my wife I'd live down by you. Southern missouri is beautiful. Everyone I've met while hunting around sunklands has been very friendly.
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start hunting and dont hesitate to ask questions and for advice,,
the deer will teach to as well,, take notes
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I had a surprising experience while hunting... I couldn’t shoot.... which was probly for the best because the doe wasn’t quite in a perfect position for a shot ... but if I she was I don’t think the arrow would have left the bow.. it was a very strange and emotional experience... any tips to overcome this want in the moment not to kill such a beautiful animal? I do not enjoy being out there but the stress was overwhelming... thanks for all the good advise
-Fox
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I think thats pretty normal,, as you hunt more you can decide when you want to shoot,,
if you decided never to shoot thats ok,, but at some point,, your hunting instinct will kick in and you will shoot,, especially if you are hungry,, :)
just enjoy the process and see how it goes,, just do what is best and natural for you,, also,, you dont have to be accountable or explain to anyone,, if you decide to shoot or not,, just enjoy being outside,,
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I think that is natural, I love every part of hunting except the kill. Even the field dressing and butchering I enjoy but I do find it hard sometimes to take the shot. It helps if they come in fast and you don't have time think too long. Just to clarify I'm not talking about a moving target I just mean when they suddenly appear and stop at 15 yards.
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I believe in sixth sense, sometimes, something doesn’t feel right and you don’t know why, always good to listen to that. Not necessarily a good thing to constantly question yourself, but maybe your inner self told you something was wrong with the shot and not a good idea to loose. It will come, and unless the game is a necessity for groceries, the hunt is where it is at anyway. If it was all about killing game, you probably wouldn’t be toting a stick and string around in the woods. That was a good experience you had. Congrats.
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Like Morgan said . Sometimes it’s just enjoying the moment. Sometimes I just pick up my phone and take a picture instead of a shot with my bow. Sometimes I don’t do either.
Getting close isn’t the hard part. Getting off that perfect unseen shot is the really hard part. I have had bucks so close I could spit on them but couldn’t get a shot off. Especially on the ground this can be very difficult.
I do like a few things to help my odds. Like Ed said I try to setup so they walk past me and give me a slightly quartering away shot. This gives me a larger target. A nice access to the vitals. It also puts their eyes ahead of me. I don’t try to stop them. I would rather shoot at a slowly walking calm animal than a alert animal standing still looking my way. I consider hunting with a selfbow very similar to hunting with a shotgun. Just at closer range. I swing, point and shoot. I one motion.
From a tree stand you have advantage of being able to see them without them seeing you better. Also scent is while still important not as much so as on the ground. Shooting from tree is different though. I like to have stand oriented so my shooting lane is to my left. (I’m right handed). It is difficult to turn and shoot to right from tree. Even straight forward is a bit difficult. Practice from tree if you plan on hunting from one. I also find I need to bend at my waist and square up my upper body to target. If I don’t I shoot a foot high every time.
Most important of all. Have fun. Enjoy being out there. Watch the animals and they will teach you their ways.
Nothing ever goes exactly as planned. Expect the unexpected.
Bjrogg
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Slightly off topic: Woody, Allyn T, you mentioned the sunk lands, as in the area around Pine Bluffs and New Madrid in the " swamp east"? Of Missouri
Hawkdancer
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Slightly off topic: Woody, Allyn T, you mentioned the sunk lands, as in the area around Pine Bluffs and New Madrid in the " swamp east"? Of Missouri
Hawkdancer
It's a conservation area south of salem MO and north of Eminence MO. It's around 40,000 acres
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Found it on the MoDc website - I left MO in '66 and migrated westward. Never got to hunt that area.
Hawkdancer
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It's a cool place and big enough you could hunt it your whole life and never sit the same spot twice
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I have had the same thoughts Fox from time to time, just don't want to shoot and I will say the least enjoyable part for me after all these years is the killing of such a beautiful creature, but that being said I do love to eat them and it is the main meat I feed my family with every year, not that I couldn't buy meat but bottom line is something has to die, either by me our someone else, as it is said "you can't grill um until you kill um" I just want to do it as cleanly and quickly as I can and always give thanks for the bounty. :) Good luck in you adventure.
Pappy
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Thanks for all the reassuring as to actually taking the shot everyone... I had lots of fun in the woods the other day, had a doe run up and stand 5 yards from me while I was in a creek getting some water, that was exciting, no shot opportunity, but it was fun! I have another question :D ... how many times should I hunt the same spot without any success or seeing any deer there? should I hunt one spot and go back there the next day? or is my scent a problem then? should I hunt the same spot like 2 or 3 times? before I try to find somewhere else? thanks again !
-Fox
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I personally do not like hunting a spot more than once if I don't see anything and even if I do see something usually the second time there are way less if any deer and if you try a third time I don't see anything
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I hunt the same spots quite regular, I am just careful going in and out and with my clothing, if I see deer and they aren't alerted I see no problem with it, if I spook one or it spots me then I will do something different. I have 12 or 15 stands/blinds up on my farm in different areas so moving around a bit is also very effective at least in the starting of the season to see what is going on, but when I zero in on a spot/area I will hunt it pretty hard until things change. Patients is a big part of the game. Just because you didn't see them there today doesn't mean you won't see them tomorrow especially if you have good sign around and didn't spook them. I am blessed to have a big farm but you have to realize that in most areas the deer are use to seeing people and smelling humans and it is not going to run them out of the area, they may be a little more cautious but they are going to leave home. If you are hunting big woods it is a little different when they don't see or smell humans except during hunting season so you have to be a little moue cautious. Hang in there, it will happen usually when yo least expect it. ;) :)
Pappy
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When I decided to hunt with a recurve, I learned a lot about what I’d been doing wrong all along. I knew my range and set up on sign in areas that only allowed for 20 yard snd in shots...and Shazam, I was seeing far more deer than when I was setting up in trees that allowed me several 100+ yard shots in multiple directions. Go get in the woods ad hunt...every failure, success, and draw will educate. Do not pass any legal deer that is within your comfort zone and standing in a good position to shoot.
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I’m with Pappy sort of. Your best chance of shootings deer in a spot is the first time you hunt it. That said, there is a first time each year...each big weather change...each rut etc. So, I shot a big 8 in Ohio in a spot I call “the rock.” I’ve rarely hunted there when I haven’t seen a decent buck. That said, there have been a few times I’ve hunted there...1st time that year...1st time since seeing the rut kick in...that I’ve seen and heard nothing. Had one of those times been my first sit and I gave up on it, I’d have missed out on a lot of incredible close encounters. If I finds good looking spot, I’ll pick a tree, makes plan, and hunt it when Ican or when I think it’s going to be a good day. If I get skunked, I might decide to give it one more go, as a spot that has a lot of sign ineluctable will not be bypassed two or three days straight. IfI still get skunked, I’ll hit elsewhere until something major changes...Brit weather, moon, or rutting activity. Also, since 2009, I spend all day in the stand, and if I can’t, I spend as much time as possible. If you are hunting a spot with lots of sign and only hunting in the afternoons and not seeing anything...might be more of a morning or midday spot. So don’t necessarily give up on it.
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In my opinion opinion scouting is huge. The more you know about the area and how the deer move within it make a big difference. With Whitetail I start scouting in the summer but don’t truly put in effort hunting till the rut.
I am of the opposite opinion of the first sit being the best. In my opinion once you have experience with an area and adapted from past mistakes is when you truly dial in a hunting spot. Knowing how different conditions affect the deer in your area helps you decide what locations are best. Knowing the areas that see heavy rut sign like scrapes and rubs each year
It may not bring you instant success but often leads to consistent success long term over seasons
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Okay thanks everyone... scouting does definitely seem very important... cause I don’t know where the deer are now, I haven’t seen any the last 4 times I’ve been out. So I go out in the evening, and I’ve been hunting in the valleys .. mostly, some on the ridges. There’s tones of acorns and squirrels up on the ridge, should I move up there ? Or find a trail going from valley to ridge? Sorry so many questions!! Thanks again .
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Next time you scout look for rub lines and scrape lines. These will tell you where the deer have traveled. Rub lines are good early on in the season but scrapes are good now. When you find a scrape line keep checking it for recent activity. Both of these are "sign posts" for deer and at least scrapes will attract bucks from elsewhere looking for a hot momma.
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Okay thanks everyone... scouting does definitely seem very important... cause I don’t know where the deer are now, I haven’t seen any the last 4 times I’ve been out. So I go out in the evening, and I’ve been hunting in the valleys .. mostly, some on the ridges. There’s tones of acorns and squirrels up on the ridge, should I move up there ? Or find a trail going from valley to ridge? Sorry so many questions!! Thanks again .
To answer your questions honestly I have no clue what would be best without knowing the area and the deers habits. The basic plan out side of the rut is to target areas between the feeding and bedding areas. You are looking for main travel routes and ideally at intersections where multiple trails meet. Pay attention to the contour of the land and the path of least resistance. How thick the bush is or if there is heavy blow down can affect how they travel
The rut I still hurt these main travel routes but also scrape lines
This is where scouting comes in you need to understand where the deer are feeding, bedding, and scrape lines are made. These are all found by paying attention to sign. Don’t get caught up on seeing deer when scouting but focus on sign
Trail cams help but some guys are against them and the cost adds up. Another low tech cheap option to check how active trails are is string light thread across the trails. If the thread is broken an animal has past since you were there last. Do this for a while and you will start getting an idea of how often deer use these trails
You will find a lot of trails don’t see much traffic and others are used almost daily. Sometimes moving 50yards is all it takes to go from seeing deer often vs rarely
Hope this helps and don’t get frustrated if you don’t tag a deer just use your time to learn and adapt.
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If your gonna stalk ridges I would be on the leeward side
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Idk much about whitetails but I like the advice given.
All points are great! Once you find deer activity and are out there it comes down to the shot. The last few seconds of your hunt.
For me, it took learning when all the right things were in place for me. In order for the situation to favor me and my effort.
You can see all the deer in the world (or whatever you’re hunting). But knowing when to take the shot and when not to shoot is SO important. And once you got that down clean kills will become consistent. There is always going to be some amount of risk. And mitigating those risks and putting odds in your favor is all part of it. Especially when it comes to setting up the scape of where you’re hunting. Where you are on the terrain should give you favor in your perspective shooting angles.
Make sure that if the deer come from which ever direction, that you have a clean lane to shoot down. Small branches and little leaves can really be a pain. One small twig can deflect an arrow enough to be ineffective.
When the deer enters the scene, that’s when the hunting starts.
Never look away. Focus. No sudden movement, eyes pick up on movement really easily. Keep your breathing even. Open your ears. Take mental notes of it’s behavior. BE patient. The deciding point of the hunt being successful is when you decide to enter the scene and intervene. When you say to yourself’ “this is it.” And you act upon this creatures life.
And knowing the right time, is everything.
You can’t be afraid to produce the shot because of doubt. Trust yourself and trust your instincts. We are predators. That killing-instinct is a part of the most primitive parts of our brains.
at the same time knowing when not to act and being okay with that, is just as important.
because patients will most likely grant you another venture.
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Hunt same trees a bunch. When you got 2-3/arce why not? Shot three out this small sycamore four or five years ago. Same tree last year double up and this year doubled up agian out of same tree. Again its a movement corridor, deer use it regular. Shoot one, wait an hour another prolly gonna move through if they are in the area.
Whitetail hunting when compared to Blacktail hunting is rather easy even with primitve gear. Whitetails are far more habitual than Blacktails. Hunted Blacktails and Muleys when I lived in the NW. Hunting Blacktails is great fun, they rut very late Mid Dec were I hunted. They like to stick to that scotch broom , fir and fern no doubt. I was lucky enough to hold the number #2 Blacktail ever taken. Just a huge headed buck. Buck was in a class of its own was taken in the 1950's and mount was getting a new cape. I happen to be in this guys shop when the family brought the thing in.
Whitetails can be patterned very easily once you figger what terrain/food sources in your area are influencing there habits and why. Not so easy in big woods of Maine or Minn per say but there too in some ways. Sometimes you've done your work and know the area and movement corridors or feeding areas but just cant get deer to get in good lethal range. This happens to Grand Slam Archery guys same as guys just starting out. Learn as you go, dont relearn mistakes from the set or stand. I've always said "you get one maybe tow chances at a good mature white you been on each season", Make the very most of those.
Next, you are not compromised by using a selfbow at all. If you can shoot well to 25-30yds a Glass bow is not going to get you any further to draggin that buck you been after all year. Most will drop the selfbow first miss at a good deer and grab the glass or wheels. Just keep getting yourself in good wind in a good spot. Figure out why you see these deer in the area you hunt. Watch them, are passing thru, going to water in heat, heading to a thicket in bad weather to browse or bed, where do doe go when it snows hard, when the predominate wind blows what spots are on the lee side of that wind. Just walkin around with bow all seasons , sitting down and watching them will answer the questions that will put you in the place to kill one under the conditions and wind for that day.
Its one thing to sit in a beanfild field corner and shoot a whitetail walking the edge early season. It's another to shoot whitetails at close range early, rut, and late season. Some places just to see a good whitetail close is tuff. Heck some places its hard to kill one with a rifle.
HH~
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Thanks for the advice HH, and others. I have another question ;D ... so I found a really great spot the other day, lots of scrapes, fresh Pooh and deep rutted trails intersecting at the top of a little ridge. The only problem is finding it I walked over the trail in 2 or 3 places... this was yesterday... so is my scent being there going to mess me up if I hunt there this weekend? Thanks again
-Fox
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You never know unless you try! I doubt that it would affect them going there but they might be more wary.
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Your hunting off ground or hanging a climber?
Should not hunt you check you wind forecast to get in there. Get in early. If you dont have a ground stand your going to need a ghillie net or make a brush blind or sorts.
Sounds like deer are traveling this place. Prolly a bunch at nite but I bet early and late day too.
HH~
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I’m hunting from the ground. So you don’t think I should hunt that spot this weekend?
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I don't think ground scent is a big deal to deer especially if I was only one time. If they never went where they smelled a predator they wouldn't be able to move. It just tells em you passed through
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I would hunt it. If you wear rubber boots they leave very little scent. Even with leather boots they probably won’t pick up your walking scent after a couple hours.
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Its Dec you better hunt it. Hunt it with any clean gear. Keep it clean as if your were trapping. Dont need rubber if you keep gear clean. You have to have a real good idea of where the deer may pass and travel from and get your ground stand ready for that wind or hunt somewhere else. A great many things must go almost flawlessly on ground but the good thing is when you get a good broadside shot, if you take it with proper angle your going to do great damage as long as you stay off shoulder.
In a tree you have little easier time with wind direction and can get away with a little movement in early season. The shot angles become much steeper at close ranges however. If you can slide an arrow with hard down angle along just one side of spine that almost always will kill even a big whitetail. You dont get a lots of blood if arrow does not poke out bottom buts its lethal. Gets the artery to kidney on either side.
Gud Luk
HH~
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Your most important bit of gear is working with the wind in your favor.