Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: WhistlingBadger on September 19, 2020, 08:48:52 pm
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Evening, boys. Here's something I've been wondering for a long time. I keep reading that the double lung hit is a quicker kill than the heart shot, and I believe it, but it goes against intuition. Can anybody explain why this is so?
Second question is more just for fun, not something I would try or encourage anyone else to try. I was out tonight perforating a few 3d targets, and decided to try a head shot at a doe. Put the arrow about an inch under her eye, which would probably be a very ugly kill in real life. But...if you are one of those people who can consistently bulls-eye a tennis ball, and you had a good, heavy, bone-crunching arrow on the string, would there ever be a circumstance where you'd take the head shot?
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Not a chance in he...heck.
I've seen several deer living (if you can call it that) with arrows through part of their heads and I am sickened by even the memory.
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I agree with John. Lot better chance of a clean kill going for the boiler room and it's a bigger target.
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I'll add my voice to no head shots. I once unintentionally head shot a buck with a rifle when he dipped his head right as I pulled the trigger on a head on shot. With a bow there is simply far too many things that can go wrong and it takes almost no movement for a miss or very ugly wounding shot. I will take the far safer, more certain heart/lung shot every time, even with a rifle.
Mark
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Yep, I agree completely on the head shot. I never would take it on a real animal (except small game); just wanted to see if that was the consensus. I know some rifle hunters will take head shots, but we have a much smaller margin of error. On 3d targets it's a fun challenge, though. ;D
So what's the deal with the double lung hit? From what I know about how the cardiovascular system works, I just can't see how deflating the lungs should kill faster than shutting down the heart, but it sure seems to work that way. Anybody know why?
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No head or neck shots period!!!
I was with my father hunting first couple years I started bow hunting. He was hunting under some Chestnut Oaks and had a nice buck come right to him. He had drawn on him when his head was down and he was walking in. Well, deer come to about 10-12yds and my father was shooting for his chest but the buck saw him release and saw the arrow and ducked his head right into arrow. My father saw what happened and said the buck had the arrow sticking out of his right eye socket and was bleeding bad.
I came to where he was hunting at last light from my location. We followed that buck for about mile and a half in dark before we found him. Was not a photogenic moment. It did do the job. The broadhead was on backside of his skull.
Neck! Anyone who has boned out a neck knows why you dont shoot for a neck on any big game critter with a bow.
Shawn~
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WB, a shot through or into the lungs will not only bleed very well but will collapse (pneumothorax) inside the chest. Try holding your breath and see how far you can run.
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Second question is more just for fun, not something I would try or encourage anyone else to try. I was out tonight perforating a few 3d targets, and decided to try a head shot at a doe. Put the arrow about an inch under her eye, which would probably be a very ugly kill in real life. But...if you are one of those people who can consistently bulls-eye a tennis ball, and you had a good, heavy, bone-crunching arrow on the string, would there ever be a circumstance where you'd take the head shot?
No way. no no no no... ugh... i hate to think about this but I've learned how good the brain is at adapting and surviving. we can live with half our brain gone, a pencil clean through the center of it, a chunk of it carved out, a bullet or arrow straight through it if not hitting a vital part of the brain.... the only way the brain will die is lack of oxygen (from blood not getting there or oxygen not getting in the blood) it seems or horrible, horrible trauma, shock, pressure.... even then its iffy.... thats why deer can survive CWD, and why we can survive many injuries, diseases, and other horrible stuff to the brain.
the only area in the head that i personally would even consider a certain kill shot would be the brain stem 4-5cm from the base of the skull... thats what will stop the heart, lungs, nerves, everything below the neck. I would not consider this ethical still as a deers brain is about 1/6 the size of ours meaning their brain stem is probably smaller than 1 inch.
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wouldnt try head shot,, not sure bout the heart lung,, both are good shots,,
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A good friend of mine is a pharmacist and a trad hunting archer. His explanation is that humans experience much pain with heart surgeries and very little pain with lung surgeries. He thinks it equates the same with animals. In my experience, heart shot critters go farther than lung shot and from his explanation I believe the pain factor is the reason. Just my opinion.
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Ive yet to shoot my first deer with a bow but Ive shot a good many with rifle and pistol. While in my younger days I have shot several in the head. Thank goodness I never had a malfunction. Ive heard horror stories about deer with their lower jaw shot off.
Any more I steer away from head/ neck shots.
I hunt a lot with a 45 colt and I liken it to bow kills without the good blood trail. A deer shot through the lungs may not go down for a few minutes but may not cover 30 yds during that time. They seem bewildered but not in any pain.
If a bullet hits the heart they will run like a streak until they crash. Heart shots may or may not kill faster than double lung shots but the distance covered may be considerably more.
However I often have to take the shot they give me or hold my piece.
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Interesting. I never even thought about the pain factor. I took last year's deer through the heart, and he only ran 30 yards or so before a fence stopped him, but he stood hunched up, definitely not feeling good.
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as you shoot more deer you will realize, even the best aimed arrow is not totally in your controll,, the deer will probably move and it can change the results dramtically, you have to take your best shot and hope for the best,, deer can sometimes go further than expected with either shot,, or any shot,, I think low in the vitals has worked best for me, and seems better for a blood trail than a high shot,,
that being said, even a gut shot is deadly,, etc etc, My friend Jerry Simmons who invented the Simmons head, shot a heavier bow and took whatever shot the deer presented,, with hundreds of deer kills,,he was deadly, and told me I should never miss a deer,, it was so much bigger than a rabbit,,:)
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Shooting low is your best bet not only for the reasons Brad gave when you take the shot the deer will drop down as it prepares to flee. This is one reason folks shoot over the deer. If you took a slo mo of the deer and arrow in flight you will see the arrow going straight for the kill zone but it goes over the deer's back as it drops. A deer's reaction is very fast compared to ours.
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A deer's reaction is very fast compared to ours.
Well, that's not saying much in my case. I have the reflexes of a dead cat. ;D
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when you get one it seems so easy,, :)
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Evening, boys. Here's something I've been wondering for a long time. I keep reading that the double lung hit is a quicker kill than the heart shot, and I believe it, but it goes against intuition. Can anybody explain why this is so?
Second question is more just for fun, not something I would try or encourage anyone else to try. I was out tonight perforating a few 3d targets, and decided to try a head shot at a doe. Put the arrow about an inch under her eye, which would probably be a very ugly kill in real life. But...if you are one of those people who can consistently bulls-eye a tennis ball, and you had a good, heavy, bone-crunching arrow on the string, would there ever be a circumstance where you'd take the head shot?
Double lung will cut a lot of vessles and blood and will cause lung collapse from air between pleura and lungs and blood between chest wall pleura and lungs...they will die secondary to a cessation of blood flow to brain and heart. That said...different areas of lungs cause this to happen at different rates, and a deer moving as fast as it can for the amount of time it can take a double lunged hit to die can be a long way. Heart...well, depends on where and how you hit the heart. If you miss slightly and sever the aorta, the deer wont make it 30 yards in a wide open run. That said, the heart is a small target. I once heart shot a small buck with a zwicky 2 blade and proceeded to jump the deer and have it go 75 yards and lay down over and over again for 4 hours...I finally got another shot at him and stuck him in the ham...he went over a hill and I came and got him the next morning after work right over the hill where he last walked. It looked like a perfect shot, so I did an autopsy...I sliced a perfect hole in his left ventricle (main pump chamber to pump blood to the body). All I can figure is that when his heart muscle contracted to pump blood to the body, the contraction squeezed the hole and still allowed the heart to pump well enough for that deer to live for many hours. After having accidentally shot deer in the ham due to poor shooting, equipment failure, and severe quartering away angle...I now know that the deer died where he did because I shot him in the ham. All three accidental ham shots went 30-45-and 70 yards. I recently had a deer duck and whirl at the shot...he was looking at me when I dropped the string...despite knowing he would duck and aiming low, he still got his chest below the arrow and spun his head around to go where he came from just in time to get a 640 gr arrow with 235 grain razor sharp tuff head squarely in the skull below his antler base. Trust me...do not go for the head shot!
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agreed about the head shot,,