Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: sleek on September 27, 2020, 11:13:29 pm
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Don't work too good. Its a 60 inch long bow that I have just started fkoor tiller and it's already wanting to take set. Im just wanting 45@26. Im gonna get it braced then heat treat the crap out of it. If that don't work, well, im gonna say hickory in North Carolina where yearly average humidity is 77% is just as good as willow.
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Have you got it 6-8% m.c.? If not then it is mushy :)
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Have you got it 6-8% m.c.? If not then it is mushy :)
I dont know what its at, i don't have a meter. Its a store bought board though.
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I bought a kiln dried straight grained 5 quarter Hickory board from an Amish cabinet maker a few years ago. From just being on the shelf in his shop the moisture content was 14 %. Belly heat treat it ,and stick it in a hot box for about a week, and heat treat the belly as you tiller if it starts taking more set than you want.JMO.
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It’s pretty humid where I am, often in the 70s even in the shop. I still use mostly hickory it just takes some aggressive humidity management and heat treating. A drying box helps force the mc down to that 6-8%. For minimum set I also like doing a heat treat before any bending, and then a few during tillering. That’s what I did for the recent 60” 1” wide hickory though it was only 40#.
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Any wood, kiln dried or not will be at equilibrium with the RH of the area it is in so only being kiln dried doesn't matter. It was kiln dried from standing live, wet wood to a lesser amount of moisture after kiln drying but it will have to be brought down to 6% (mol) before it will preform well.
Historically, hickory was one of the preferred bow woods of the Eastern Woodland tribes and specifically the southeast. I've made many hickory bows over the years and learned by trial and error and from other successful bowyers that if handled properly, before, during and after building a hickory bow you can minimize set without much effort.
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heat box gonna help alot,,it may not take the amount of set you prefer, as stated, it will still make a good bow,,with a little set,, I hope,, :)
I made some with hard backing that shot well,, in humid climate,, did use heat box,, and perry reflex
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Alright, thanks for the replies guys. Reckon I need a heat box. How hot do yall make em and whats your heat source?
Pat, once you have made a hickory bow, throughout the rest of its life, do you find it needs heat treat again periodically to keep it dry?
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I have not made any in long time,, but I seem to rember putting them back in heat box, ,, after being expossed to rainy conditions,, ok IM not expert on this, it not so much the heat temp,,, but the heat source light bulb,, just drives out the moisture,, I think mine was around 90 degress,, and I did check some osage trying to dry it too quickly,, I dont recall checking any hickory,,
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Look on utube . Their are examples on how to make a good heat box. Light bulbs ,plywood,and a liner etc. You can even make them with a thermostat to control temperature. Once you make one you will use it, and not only for Hickory.
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Once heat treated you shouldn't need to do that again if stored properly, either in your home with AC or in a hotbox.
I built my hotbox with plans from Bingham's when I was going to build a glass longbow. You don't need to build one as extensive as the one I made. One sheet of foil backed foam board and some duct tape will do it for the box and a ceramic light socket or 2 and 100w incandescent light bulbs will do what is needed.
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used in a hunting application, Im sure the hickory was fine for taking game,, even with a little set,, warmed over a camp fire other means probably kept them very serviceable,, with two bows ,,, one could always be stored in a less humid environment,, and ready for use, if the other bow took on some moisture,, if you were strong enough, a heavier bow could compensate for string follow and mositure content,,,and or heat treating may keep the moisure content at bay,,
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hickory is a royal pain in the southeast but when dry enough as good as osage... your problem is obvious.. wood it too wet still.. it will not get under 15 % outside period... you have to bring inside for about 6 months after you rough out bow.. and anytime you take it outside to work it goes back inside immediately.. once finished seal and its good to go... trust me I have quite a few hickory bows and I am in Ga.. they are as good as any osage bow ... gut
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let me add... 6% to me is too dry... 8% is as low as it needs to go IMO... anything under 12% should be fine.. 12 or over and you will take set ...it will not get below 15% stored in a barn outside even for years.. the bugs will get it before it gets dry..haha.. a hot box will certainly help but force drying wood can create checks and hickory will check if force dried too fast... once you seal it after finishing bow you won't need to do anything to it again.. my bows stay in the basement ..summary: in south hickory is a fine bow wood .. might even become your favorite.. royal pain to dry but when properly treated it is a killer , light in hand , tolerable to violations, quick and hard hitting bow.. when I get some fresh hickory I remove bark rough out bow, if going to recurve go ahead and do it.. then put in closet for at least 6 months and work on other projects... gut
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nice INfo Gut,, Im tempted to order a stave and see what I can do,,
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Keith Shannon is making Hickory bows now that takes 3 days from start to finish with his fire hardening method. He shows a 30 minute clip on utube . Impressive shooting bow after finishing ,and shooting. Might want to give that a shot. His way seems to be the very best to make a bow from Hickory. As good, or better than Osage when finished. His claim not mine. Watch it on utube with Thad Beckum.
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ok nothing is better than osage,, even if it is, (-S
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Ok, so just to learn, I built the 60 inch bow just like I would osage. I have only built 4 hickory bows in the last 10 years, so this wood is really new to me. I got it to 45 pounds at 26 inches. I dont think at 1 3/4 wide it could do any more. It took 2 inches of set. I know I should have heated it before bending, but I like destructive testing. Now im gonna heat treat it black and see what that will do for it. Even so, it's a cute little bow, probably hitting mid 150s fps. It will hunt for sure.
The next one I make I will do as was recommended by yall to see what differences in performance I get.
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Well, I guess RH doesn't mean "real humidity". 'Course, I knew that all along. Keeping the staves at real humidity is the most important, I think, but I am not real qualified in relation to bows! It is pretty dry out here in a wet year!
Hawkdancer
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I got it to 45 pounds at 26 inches. I dont think at 1 3/4 wide it could do any more.
Does this quote mean you feel like you met the max draw weight limit? If so, why? Hickory should be more than capable of higher draw than that at those dimensions if it is good, dense wood.
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I got it to 45 pounds at 26 inches. I dont think at 1 3/4 wide it could do any more.
It was ok at 40 pounds, but 45 pounds really made it take lots of set. 2 inches is more than im happy with, so, as it sits, un heat treated, its max weight limit was certainly exceeded. We will see what heat does for it next.
Does this quote mean you feel like you met the max draw weight limit? If so, why? Hickory should be more than capable of higher draw than that at those dimensions if it is good, dense wood.
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You’ll certainly have better results when the mc is lower. Looking forward to seeing if the heat treat brings it back, I’ve heard of high moisture set not being a permanent thing, but no idea if that’s right or not.
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You’ll certainly have better results when the mc is lower. Looking forward to seeing if the heat treat brings it back, I’ve heard of high moisture set not being a permanent thing, but no idea if that’s right or not.
Thats my thinking.
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1 3/4 is plenty wide...I take mine to mid limb then taper to 1/2 tip.. mine are high 50's at 26 not any longer than 60" I add ( thats just where I feel comfortable with ) and they are just as fast as my osage bows..when dry there is no set if tilled properly and slowly.. osage bends easily with dry heat.. hickory will also but not as easy as osage.. I boil in my recurves with both woods.. osage is much heavier in hand than hickory. but hey, we talking ounces here... hickory is more tolerable to violations than osage.. but I just remove bark and there is my back.. no need to chase a ring nor would I want to attempt it.. haha... sinew and hickory don't go well in the south either.. will add too much moisture to bow and not worth the time or effort to do will actually lose cast ..dry time is too long... I learned that the hard way by not properly giving it enough time... I see no reason why a 80lb bow could not be made from hickory.. people out west really can get hickory screaming because of the dry climate ... and it dries much faster... and stays dry but hickory is very hygroscopic like bamboo.. it will soak moisture up like a sponge.. it may be a pain to deal with .. but it is one of my favorite woods.. hickory slats are frequently used as a backing that speaks volumes about this wood..it is plentiful here which is why I may be so biased .gut
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Hey gut,FYI... the word is hygroscopic, not hydroscopic. Hygroscopic means taking on and releasing moisture to the atmosphere and yes, hickory is very hygroscopic.
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thanks Pat.. I always wondered why the spelling wouldn't take...gut
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it will be very interesting to see the performance difference after heat treat,,thanks for posting
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nice INfo Gut,, Im tempted to order a stave and see what I can do,,
I have a butt ton of bark on hickory staves I cut in February. I'll send you one if you pay for shipping I'll even video chat and let you pick out which one you want.
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Whelp, After a good heat treat, and without adding any reflex, to still at 2 inches set, 45#@26 and shooting 165 fps with a 450 grain arrow. Honestly, im impressed. Im going to explore hickory much more indepth now. I'm running low on osage, and hickory is much cheaper. I may enjoy this.
I take it back, its 43 pounds bow at 26. Im even more impressed. Hickory has a good use down here. I just got to get it dry. It was so wet water drops were condensed at the tips from steam as I was heat treating it.
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Allyn pm sent thank you
Sleek great news sounds like great performance with the shorter draw,, I bet you get get one to shoot, that will hunt for sure,,