Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Kidder on October 18, 2020, 11:06:10 pm
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So I’ve got a stave of black locust that is about 6 months old. I’d like to back it and bring it down to a roughed out bow to finish drying. Mostly because I know it’s going to be a struggle and don’t want to waste any more mental effort if it should be thrown into the shop stove this winter. That said it is extremely fine ringed (25rpi). The outer 10 or so rings seem to be pure pith and are substantially more early wood than late wood. I’ve also noticed a small amount of spalting in it. Should I removed the sapwood and use the first heartwood ring as a back and then likely rawhide back it? My concern is that the outer rings are almost entirely early wood. Do I dare try to chase down 10-12 rings to one of the few decent rings - in working a few small areas, even with a bigger ring it seems close to impossible. Or scrap it? All of the locust that I’ve put tool to has driven me nuts and looking for some insight. Thanks!
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doesn't look too bad to me ( I'm still pretty new though) but id chase down to that first or second good ring.
-Fox
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This is an example of the spalting.
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That isn't spalting. Spalting only affects dead trees and is basically the ingress of various micro--organisms that break down the wood, ultimately rotting it. Locust often gets those marks in it - no problem.
As for chasing a ring it just takes time , patience and experience. It is perfectly possible to chase the first heartwood ring on this stave. Stop telling yourself it is impossible and have a go. You need a super, super sharp scraper for the job. Look up on how to get a cabinet scraper super sharp. With the right tools and good light ring chasing is pretty easy and I find it theraputic :)
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That isn't spalting. Spalting only affects dead trees and is basically the ingress of various micro--organisms that break down the wood, ultimately rotting it. Locust often gets those marks in it - no problem.
As for chasing a ring it just takes time , patience and experience. It is perfectly possible to chase the first heartwood ring on this stave. Stop telling yourself it is impossible and have a go. You need a super, super sharp scraper for the job. Look up on how to get a cabinet scraper super sharp. With the right tools and good light ring chasing is pretty easy and I find it theraputic :)
Thanks! That’s great advice...especially “ Stop telling yourself it is impossible and have a go.” I’m gonna make it happen!
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Yes, remove the sapwood. Jawge
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Do you guys not think the early wood to late wood ratio is too bad to chase the first ring?
-Fox
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One of the rings just under the sapwood looks ok. Not sure if it is the first. If you miss it go to the next good one.
The BL around here (NH) has thicker rings. Those rings are atypical for BL I've used. I, too, cut my bow making teeth on it.
I would not reject a stave because of late wood early wood ratio. What I would do and have done with osage is leave it a little wider. I might go 1 3/4" wide. Sometime you have to adapt.
Jawge
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The ratio isn't great, but I think that first dark heartwood ring will be relatively easy to chase. One nice thing about thin rings is that there is always another one! With that said though, it does look like you have a few decent rings, and then sort of a "void" in the middle...I would try hard to use that first dark ring so you have the maximum amount of decent rings in the bow, and don't have all of the light colored stuff for the belly. Good luck!
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That picture HAS the sapwood removed - those are 10-15 years of heartwood on the outside that you can barely see the rings on. Now that said - after I posted it I was able to stick to that ring with a dull draw knife and a sharp scraper and have got about 20” of the back chased. But it’s taken me 2 hours to do that and is testing the nerves. But I’m going to just keep plugging away. Thanks for the input!
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Patience, Grasshopper! :BB. You are not in a foot race.
Hawkdancer
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So I was looking that first photo with the ruler on it. That's all heartwood? Jawge
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So I was looking that first photo with the ruler on it. That's all heartwood? Jawge
Yep - that’s all heartwood. There are some very fine late wood rings but it’s very pithy. I’ve managed to catch a ring about 3 down and ride it out for about 20 inches.
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wouldnt hurt to rawhide back too..I would go down to the thicker rings,, thats just me,,
if I was gonna sinew back, I would just get it pretty close and put the sinew on,, but I think there is a bow in there,, :-D
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In this situation I'd go down to the first thicker growth ring and get it clean as possible. If you violate it go to the next but remember you don't have too far you can go at that point so a scraper and some patience might be your best bet. Quit thinking about how much you have to do and just do it. Slow and steady wins the race.
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Yep, chase it down to the first good heart wood growth ring, trap the back,and belly heat treat. that is what worked best for me any how. No belly fretting so far on 4 of them,and I shoot them quite a bit. Makes a snappy bow.
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I think you may be in the situation where sapwood is changing to heartwood. By the way, that second photo may show a violated back...towards the right of the photo, Check it closely.
I agree go to an all heartwood ring.
Jawge
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I think you may be in the situation where sapwood is changing to heartwood. By the way, that second photo may show a violated back...towards the right of the photo, Check it closely.
I agree go to an all heartwood ring.
Jawge
The second photo is actually of a different piece on the belly side of a bound for burn pile piece I attached just to show what I incorrectly thought was spalting.
Either way - thanks to all for the input. I guess I need to suck it up and get to work!
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I don't like to work those real thin rings if I have a better choice, its almost all early wood to my eyes. However sometime the saw does not cut a clean edge on the rings and makes it look different than it is. When I think that occurs I'll take a sharp tool to the end and make a clean cut to see things better.(and that looks like the case in your picture to me) I would use one of those 6 rings near the .5" spot on your ruler if that was my piece of wood, provided I thought the rings were consistent from end to end. Good locust always seems stringy when removing to get to the ring I want, when I remove stuff like what i think i see it all seems to crumble when I take it off. For that reason I dont think its as good.
Sounds like your well on your way now though, so cool. If your in that fine stuff I'd suggest keeping it a little wider and longer than you may otherwise. Good luck on your build.
Mike
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I’ve tried locust that looks like that with mixed results, there is a lot of early growth there for black locust. But still a good probablity of getting a good shooter. I agree with M2A, get to the first solid looking ring, leave it as wide as you can, trap the back, heat treat the belly well and maybe even silk or rawhide back it. With black locust I’ve gone up to 2” wide for a 50# bow and they still shoot well, so you can get that wide, I would.
Kyle