Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Selfbowman on December 22, 2020, 12:04:33 pm
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I have this stave that I am sure come from the north side because of the moss. It was the north side of a straight tree to.
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Sorry Wrong pic
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I never gave it much thought and never asked. If you are talking about the rings, location, terrain, canopy cover, northers or southern, east or west, specific tree as well as compass directions will affect the tree's growth.
BTW, moss doesn't only grow on the north side of a tree.
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I can’t help you as far as preference of staves because I haven’t made a fraction of the bows you have, but I‘ve seen moss grow on all sides of trees depending on where they grew as far as exposure to the sun goes.
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Just did a step sister billet bow Rashka. Think those bilets came off a leaner and they were on the dirt side (under). its a spicy buggah. Did a HHB that came from same orientation that came out fine as well.
HH~
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Ok sounds like it don’t matter. Thanks
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I think Shawns comment was the bows came from the "compression" side of the tree. Rings arent always perfect circles around the center of the tree. wood cell structure changes in different locations in the tree. the leeward side of the tree might be different from the windward in windy areas also.
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I always use the RIGHT side of the tree Arvin . 😉😊😊😊 Pappy
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I’ve wondered about compression and tension sides of leaning trees. I could never remember which was which when I went to make a bow out of them though.
Bjrogg
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I always use the RIGHT side of the tree Arvin . 😉😊😊😊 Pappy
😁😁😁😂ok that’s the side you got right?
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It is more for conifer woods as far as I know. The people in Siberia and far northeastern Europe made bows that looked a lot like Asian composite horn bows but from laminated wood. In particular Siberian bows looked a lot like Mongolian bows but were made from 2 to 3 laminations of wood. I believe birch was usually the back and the belly was compression pine and spruce. They exclusively used compression conifers. Maybe the tree was on a hill or near a river or sheltered from sun on one side. For whatever reason the tree would take a lean. The compression or reaction wood is the side taking the bend so the growth rings are more compressed than the tension side. I believe sometimes compression wood is formed when the tree tries to compensate for gravity. The best incense cedar bows I made were from the top side of the branch. Despite gravity the limbs would grow curving up. The tight ringed compression wood weighs much more than wide ring tension wood. Most bowyers know that tight ringed yew is the best. People call this high elevation yew, but compression yew can have very tight rings too. My favorite wood and the wood I have used most is juniper. Although I always back it with sinew, a good selfbow can be made from compression wood too. I use both to make bows but I have had more failures with punky tension wood and it will not take as much bend as compression wood(makes sense). Sinew backed juniper bows I have made from compression wood harvested from mountain range islands in Utah and Nevada that recieve very little moisture have produced the best bows to date. The rings are like pages in a book. Even staves with flaws I had to work around take a huge amount of bend and unlike normal size ring bows, after years of uverdrawing these bows they show no signs of crizzaling (sp?) on the belly. I would love to make a pine or spruce self bow some day from perfect Compression wood.
Arvin, that was a huge explanation to tell you I don't think it matters for osage unless the tree was under a lot of weight from a fallen tree or something. Then I think in that case the hardwood compression wood would be stronger.
I have all this stuff it papers somewhere, so if some of my historical bow facts are slightly off let me know.
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Leaners, I have cut more than a few, compression wood, transition wood and tension wood, I have split it out of a straight log and have it instantly reflex, deflex or dogleg depending on what side of the tree it was on.
Osage is easy to correct but the transition wood hickory that doglegs to the side is problematical to get aligned and straight again.
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I can’t help you as far as preference of staves because I haven’t made a fraction of the bows you have, but I‘ve seen moss grow on all sides of trees depending on where they grew as far as exposure to the sun goes.
Yes I know that the lack of sun is what causes the moss. It could be on the bottom of the limb. But on a straight 50’ y’all tree in say the USA it would most commonly be On the north side. Yes or no . Just asking? Arvin
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Like Eric says. If you split in the right spot hickory takes a great reflex on drying. Siberian elm too. In conifers compression wood sometimes takes a reflex on drying, but more often the split from the other side will take deflex and if you try to take a stave from the side, even if it is perfectly straight when split it will take a big side bend.
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Like Eric says. If you split in the right spot hickory takes a great reflex on drying. Siberian elm too. In conifers compression wood sometimes takes a reflex on drying, but more often the split from the other side will take deflex and if you try to take a stave from the side, even if it is perfectly straight when split it will take a big side bend.
I have noticed that Chuck on staves I buy when they are shipped still pretty wet. I always suspected it was just as you are describing.
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Arvin, I am a born and raised Kansan. I learned long time ago, around here the theory that moss only grows on the north side of trees is pretty much bunk. A lot depends on where the tree is growing and how shaded from the sun it is from surrounding trees. Get into some shelterbelts and creek bottoms where trees are pretty thick sometimes the tree trunks don’t get a lot of sun. If it’s damp a lot moss will grow on all sides. I would go more by growth ring thickness and ratio than guessing which way the tree was facing.
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Ok here are 5 staves one hickory on the left and the rest are Osage . All 7-8% moisture. Old mossy on far right is string straight. The next has natural reflex and bent to the side . The next is string straight. The next a dog leg with natural deflex. Please explain using these staves. Arvin
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Arvin, I am a born and raised Kansan. I learned long time ago, around here the theory that moss only grows on the north side of trees is pretty much bunk. A lot depends on where the tree is growing and how shaded from the sun it is from surrounding trees. Get into some shelterbelts and creek bottoms where trees are pretty thick sometimes the tree trunks don’t get a lot of sun. If it’s damp a lot moss will grow on all sides. I would go more by growth ring thickness and ratio than guessing which way the tree was facing.
Ok good enough.
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Next question? Can you make a bow from hickory turning the growth rings 90degrees. Growth rings across the back instead of on side of limbs? Have not done but one other hickory bow. Arvin
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The best incense cedar bows I made were from the top side of the branch.
Chuck.
Was this a sinew backed bow?
@all
Btw, there are two buildalongs in the "How to and buildalong section". One by Gordon utilizing tension wood, and one by S. Laryakskoe illustrating a bow built by a Vakhov ostyak with spruce compressionwood
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Yes you can Arvin. I just think it is kind of funny to take a stave and turn it into a lumbar board bow. Just like picking lumbar for a bow, the rings just need to be straight on all sides
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Willie, yes. Always.
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Next question? Can you make a bow from hickory turning the growth rings 90degrees. Growth rings across the back instead of on side of limbs? Have not done but one other hickory bow. Arvin
of course. It would be better than a board if you the stave was split along the side that becomes the back. working an edge ringed stave makes even more sense with a wood like osage that can have crunchy earlywood. nothing needs chasing
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I don’t know if I can get that hickory stave straight . That’s why I ask . It might be easier to work the stave from 90degrees
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I like mossy. In fact got three huge Hedge leaners that have to come out soon. Wanna say they're are 25"-30" diameters. Moss backed giants. Gettem out while beanfields are frozen.
HH~
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Shawn you want to sell me some of those? Pm me if you do. Arvin
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Early to late right nags not ideal but stove pipe straight for sure.
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Arvin, if I sell you my staves then im outta wood. This was cut in 20. Going on a cutting hunt soon. See how these three leaners pan out? Im thinking billets mostly but i really am hooked on clean matched billets. You put a leather, beaver grip on ya never know its a billet bow anyway. Plus, if one end turds out early on you just cut it away and put a new one in.
Hows that goat killer shoot? Got some zip?
Shawn~