Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: paulc on January 17, 2021, 08:18:25 am
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https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/10/neanderthal-glue-was-a-bigger-deal-than-we-thought/
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Neat! "So simple, even the cavemen did it"
Hawkdancer
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I think most people grossly underestimate cavemen's intelligence; they where human just like we are.
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it's so similar to glue hafted kimberley points
It's so fascinating when distant cultures evolve similar tools
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Haha I think everyone underestimated them to the extreme. Honestly what they had to remember every day to survive and then evidence of things like this coming out, it’s nuts. The way they knapped points is insane too, our more modern styles are super easy in comparison. I still wonder how they passed that technology across all the groups. Probably a lot more peaceful than they’re made out to be.
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Very interesting article. Thanks for posting it, Paul. :OK )P(
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I still wonder how they passed that technology across all the groups. Probably a lot more peaceful than they’re made out to be.
They had a long time to do it. Notice that our world has changed more in the past hundred years than theirs did in millennia. I think history telescopes, Over enough time virtually any information will get spread around. You could probably learn knapping form looking at your enemy's arrowheads, as well as from watching a friend
Looking at history, larger nations are more secure and peaceful inside. This may mean that rival nomadic family bands would be constantly fighting. As a more modern example, look at how much Native American tribes beat up on each other. That would be like Minneapolis waging war on St. Paul.
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Nice, I enjoyed that. Thanks for sharing. Pappy
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)P( slow and even ignorant doesn't mean stupid. it still blows me away as I learn more and more about how my ancesters made and used things. Just to survive in the wild is amazing but to thrive long enough to have decendants and form tribes. that requires understanding how to make adjustments to the moment's needs. Heck I get blown away by the things that were made hundreds and thousands or years ago with nothing but simple hand made tools. Heck even with modern tools of today, the craftsmanship can be terrible compared to theirs. these peoples had time to work slowly and get it done right and yet they didn't have time because of just trying to survive was a full time job. But obviously they figured out what worked and refined it to what they could to be quicker at it. I would have to say that peoples like this are the kings of capitalizing on the resources around them to survive. thanks Paul
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Wish I could find the source, but saw a study done on the Neanderthal birch tar.
Chemically it resembled tar collected from rocks around a fire pit not the more refined tar made from dry distillation in an enclosed vessel.
I'm not trying to diminish their successes that allowed them to survive in harsh times, they just weren't quite the out of the box thinkers that homosapiens are. There's reasons they disappeared when we arrived on the scene.
ETA: found a source on aerobic production of birch tar, published in PNAS
https://www.pnas.org/content/116/36/17707
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Just one thing, we are Neanderthal. There is abundant genetic evidence of inter-marriage, as well as some archaeological data of such. Also, Neanderthal invented tool use, abstract and representational art, carving stone and ivory and painting surfaces as well as practising religion 20 to 30,000 years before homo sapiens arrived in Europe, they were quite possibly more advanced in most respects than h. Sapiens and certainly thought a long way outside the box, A useful set of search terms is Neanderthal Spain and 70,000bc . Had the great pleasure of attending a lecture by this guy on an open day when my boy was checking out Southampton university www.sapiens.org/archaeology/neanderthal-art-discovery/
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Do you think it might be possible that the DNA exchange was done by force rather than a honeymoon? Considering h. Sapien history and all?
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I doubt much of it was consensual...Paul
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Guys, please, please stop. Have you not searched current data? For instance, first image on a quick google search :https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/247557310743902829/
Or if you want, go analyse an early bronze age manuscript, the sons of Adam beheld the daughters of men and they were fair and they...married
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I can't decide if stuckinthemud is being funny or serious....
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Defiantly not serious. BUT, the current archaeological debate is very strong on not imposing your views on the archaeological evidence, so, we can see that h. sapiens sapiens was cousin to h sapiens neanderthalensis, and they were close enough genetically to create fertile progeny (as opposed to f1 hybrid - infertile like mules). Equally, current facial reconstructions of H.S. N. shows them to be as human in appearance as you and me. The artistic interpretations of H.S.N. as brutish and clad in bad fur loin cloths are very unfair and have no basis in archaeology. Quite why H.S.S. is interpreted as sophisticated and H.S.S.N. as brutish is beyond me as the two branches of human were technologically equal and equally human in appearance, according to the archaeology. That is, I think it is fair to say that while genetic mixing would quite possibly have been by force in some instances, it would also be by consent in others.
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Gotcha, agreed.
I would guess any non consensual breeding went both ways...P
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I would imagine that would be the case, ultimately we have no idea. I apologise if I appear crotchety on this matter, even when I was in Uni studying archaeology and geography, the geographer in me would squirm at the outrageous stories applied by my archaeology texts to the tiniest piece of material culture. All sorts of people who should have known better weaving outlandish tales to suit their own preconceptions of what they felt were crude and backward savages. I'm afraid it still jerks my chain
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;)
have you found these on youtube yet. Pretty cool stuff; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgd5Mt25koI
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Not stumbled over them but they seem a nice little summary of current theories, thanks for the link
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Had a fun evening reading up on it. This one was very interesting
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/30/africa/africa-neanderthal-dna-scn/index.html
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ps6Q5p0CcQw
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Yeh, the theory is that a rise in global temperatures turned the lush forests into plains and scrubland forcing h. Habilis to adapt to ground living and hunting in increasingly open and less hospitable country, forcing swift development of weapons and tools in the face of large predators, hunting replacing poor quality food from the reduced quality in vegetation
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https://youtu.be/0jdcR8jr3d0
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Tough life. ??? We sometimes think we got it rough.
Pappy
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https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/essential-timeline-understanding-evolution-homo-sapiens-180976807/
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Very interesting article! Thanks for the link. A lot has happened since the first flaked tool! :KN )P( (AT):BB :-M
Hawkdancer
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This may add a twist to the Neanderthal extinction
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/18/969063568/ancient-trees-show-when-the-earths-magnetic-field-last-flipped-out
In summary: the last magnetic pole flip was about 42K yeara ago, Neanderthals went extinct about 40K years ago.
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I read that article last night, pretty interesting stuff. I wonder if I really did it or it changed the climate so much that's what really caused the die off.
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Fascinating stuff, mad max time if it happens again