Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Deerhunter21 on January 20, 2021, 09:33:34 pm
-
so i had some quality time with my grandpa and he taught me the very basics of how to use a chainsaw. nothing extreme, just cutting a fallen poplar tree into firewood. Now i want to cut down a tree so i can get back into building bows without the constant stress of looking at my dwindling stave pile. buuuuut, i was only taught how to cut an already fallen tree into 18" segments, not a standing tree. So how do i do it as safely as possible without hurting the wood?
-
You need hands on training for this with an experienced chainsaw operator. You will get directions from some folks about how to cut here and how to cut there but there is a lot more than that. You have to read the tree, find the center of gravity, know the direction it will fall and how to direct the tree as it falls to fine tune the guidance. )-w(
-
Search on 'tree felling' and 'tree felling safety' and maybe 'chainsaw safety' on youtube. Most of the chainsaw manufacturers have put out good videos with the emphasis on safety. The British Columbia government also put out a series of safety videos on chainsaws and tree cutting that are good if you find them.
The Stihl video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjjDSiqSoZM
Mark
-
Most ideal stave sized trees are easily cut by cutting about half way through one side and the rest of the way through the other. ;)
-
Be sure to check the direction of fall and get the hell out of the way! Sort of aim where you want the tree to fall, cut a wedge about half way, then on the other side cut at the point of the wedge. If anyone else is in the area, yell"TIMBER", drop the saw safely and run! Better yet, get some one to teach you! Trees tend to kick when they hit. Do it safely and have fun! Btw, save me a stave (lol)
Hawkdancer
-
You should almost definitely have someone teach you hands on.... and wear chaps... But what hawkdancer said... but really chainsaws and trees are prone to be a dangerous when ya don’t know what your doing.
-Fox
-
You can always cut your trees with a bow or crosscut saw, and an axe safer and slower, and a better way to learn to fell trees. Then once your board of that, and more experienced, pick up a chainsaw. Saw and axe is more rewarding though either way.
-
Unless anybody on here is a qualified treesurgeon don't listen. I know 3 different tree surgeons and all of them would say what I'm about to say.....Chainsaws can ruin your life in an instant. They require proper dedicated training.
You cannot learn how to use a chainsaw properly by asking questions on a bow making forum. You've already been given bad advise....
Put the saw down and walk away before it gets buried in you!
Chainsaw cuts to the body are awful wounds to try and fix...it doesn't leave a cut that can be stitched back up...no they rip huge chunks out of you and you will need an inventive surgeon to stop you leaking....
As said learn above learn to use a good quality handsaw safely. I've not come across a bow wood tree that I couldn't fell with a bow saw.
-
I got a chainsaw, I always ALWAYS use a saw, axe and wedge to send it where I want it to go
-
You can always cut your trees with a bow or crosscut saw, and an axe safer and slower, and a better way to learn to fell trees. Then once your board of that, and more experienced, pick up a chainsaw. Saw and axe is more rewarding though either way.
Hoorah, at last someone who doesn't assume a chainsaw! :)
Most trees suitable for bow making (in the UK) can be sawn with a 36" bow saw or even a pruning saw.
I prefer to do it with hand tools as it is less noisy and when I make a mistake it is less likely to kill me, as I'm not chainsaw trained.(I have used one, just so that I knew the basics).
I look which way it want to fall, or I want it to fall, sometimes tie it off so it can't fall the wrong way. If I can shimmy up and take off some of the top I may do that first. Then cut out a bird's mouth on the side I want it fall, then saw across the back, making sure I'm to one side in case it kicks up and back.
Del
-
The principles of felling a tree is pretty much the same for hand saw, axe, and to a large extent with a chainsaw(extra potential danger from the saw). You really want to learn proper technique with a chainsaw, it greatly reduces your risk.
Felling trees is potentially very dangerous.
Yes you can get actual training via a course. I didn't. I bought a lot of books on tree surgery, chainsaw use and learnt the how's and why's to do things a certain way to achieve safe results. Natural lean of the tree, obstructions, tension problems, cleared escape routes.
How to set up a bird's mouth properly, using wedges to control the fall of the tree.
Like others have said, you wont learn it properly on an internet forum(unless maybe its for tree surgery, even then you'd need a lot of foreknowledge).
Plenty of interesting youtube videos on how the pro's do it. Some really amazing footage, and of course videos of people who have done it really wrong, smashing houses or cars in the process.
I would also recommend learning on small trees and increasing the size as you get more experienced.
Its pretty fulfilling felling trees with a large handsaw, splitting on site and packing them out of the woods. Hard work too.
Always better and safer if you have a friend to help.
-
Russell, take bownarra's advice.
-
Well, good advice for the most part but assuming someone is going to ruin their life if they pick up a chainsaw is far fetched.
All of us had to start some where, cutting an already downed tree into firewood is a good start.
My advice, first don't try to cut a big tree to start with, something in the 8" to 10" range or smaller is a good starter tree. Only try to make the tree fall in a direction that it has room to go and don't try to make a leaning tree fall in the opposite direction of the lean. Make your notch cut and very cautiously and slowly make the back cut until the tree starts to lean in the direction you want it to go.
ALWAYS PLAN ON A ESCAPE ROUTE so you can get away from the falling tree, some trees kick back from the stump, very few but your escape route will keep you covered if this happens.
If your tree hangs up in the canopy, leave it unless you have someone with you who knows how to get it down.
Watch as many of the tree falling videos on youtube as you can.
You have to have a sharp chainsaw, a dull one will get you in trouble in a hurry.
Never take your eyes off the cut while you are making it, no day dreaming. I was day dreaming a couple of times while limbing a tree on the ground, not looking at what i was doing and knocking off limbs as fast as I could. Next thing I knew I had cut through my blue jeans on my thigh and slightly cut my leg, it was close and could have been much much worse.
The best advice I can give you is to round up someone with some chainsaw experience and ask then to show you the ropes and go with you on your first few missions. Make a bow for them and they will help you forever, I call these bows "thank-you bows" and have given out bunch of them over the years, not for chainsaw work but help in general.
I never touched a chainsaw until I was 35 or so, a couple years later I cleared about 5 miles of hunting club roads of fallen pines after an ice storm, it took me 6 months of my days off and after work. In one 100 yard stretch of road there were 75 downed trees across the road. These trees were all at least 12" diameter and up.
You can never learn how to use a chainsaw if you don't try, but remember to respect the chainsaw, it is always the master.
-
I was purely talking about using a handsaw. If you can cut your own Christmas tree you can a cut a bow stave tree down.
-
Pay attention to the wind as well.
-
Another thing, if you are chainsaw sharpening challenged like I am this is the tool for the job, bar none the best and easiest sharpener I have ever used, fool proof.
This is the Stihl model, these things are German made and they sell exactly the same sharpener on eBay for about half the cost of a Stihl, the only difference is the eBay one is blue. They make different sizes for different pitch chains so you have to know what size chain you have on your saw.
https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/filing-tools/2in1file/
I have the commercial sharpener to the left of the picture but prefer my German sharpener.
-
I can make a tree go anywhere I want it to go but I have a system. All log chain, cable and a two ton come-a-long, no rope involved. I had planted this tree as a large sapling when I moved into the house 17 years earlier, unfortunately its root system had taken over 1/4 of my garden spot as well as my blueberry patch and muscadines, it had to go.
(https://i.imgur.com/GAgVLjO.jpg)
I had to keep it off the shop and the camper, no room for errors.
(https://i.imgur.com/olFoPpR.jpg)
-
Listen to bownarra. Saplings make fine bows and can be cut with hand tools. Check my site.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/saplingbow.html
Jawge
-
I've been cutting firewood and removing trees from near my house for over 40 years. About 10 years in I laid a chainsaw across my knee. Fortunately it did very little damage. I thought I was experienced enough but I lost concentration while lifting the saw, turned to see who might have called me(it was nobody) and in an instant there were copious amounts of blood running down my leg. Like I said, I was very lucky with only deep flesh wounds.
Most trees, 2" to 6" will make good bows and most of these can be cut with a hand saw of some sort in less than 30 minutes. Use what is most comfortable for you, check your surrounding area, have a buddy near watching for you and work smartly and safely.
I know it is one way to do it(I think the wrong way) but I have seen trees that were put under tension, like Eric shows and kick out and split lengthwise, still on the stump and can really cause you damage, especially with a running chainsaw in your hands.
-
What Eric said.... but no one else is talking about chaps and a helmet... if your wear these you’d be much safer.... and with the two story’s of pat and Eric cutting themselves... they most likely wouldn’t have gotten to flesh if they had had chaps on. ;)
-
Remember that even with hand saws, falling trees 1. are very heavy and 2. can move faster than you can react if they rebound. We think of them as gently toppling over, but they can slam back into you easily, especially if they hang up or have larger (stronger) branches to make them spring backwards after they hit the ground. Also, hand saws can get stuck just like chainsaws (admittedly it seems less stressful) if you do something like cutting from underneath a limb so the blade gets pinched. You may have figured that one out from cutting wood already. I think it would be smart to start out with a hand saw or axe and a couple of larger saplings...but still be careful!
-
All of what has been said is worthy, but I am going to just give a simple statement to always remember....
"How should I fell a tree?"
Very, very carefully and cautiously; use safety equipment, and never, ever, ever attempt to cut anything that you feel comfortable with. If you don't feel comfortable, then go cut something easier until you do.
I have had two friends/acquaintences that have hurt themselves horribly. One was cutting something beyond his skill level, and the other was careless making a relatively easy pruning cut, did not approach the cut correctly, and had the saw kick back and mangle his face from above his eye, beside his nose, through his lips, and into his chin. Chainsaws don't leave cuts that plastic surgeons can repair with minimal scarring, and he was fortunate it didn't blind him in one eye or kill him. So again....
Be careful and cautious, and don't make squirrely cuts....it aint worth the risk.
-
You can always cut your trees with a bow or crosscut saw, and an axe safer and slower, and a better way to learn to fell trees.
Yes. Just use a handsaw to fell several saplings, first, please.
-
I’ve felled trees that are extremely hard with hand tools 20-30 feet high. While I am nowhere near an expert on the matter I know my limits and I know this isn’t my job so I don’t have time constraints that force me to use a chainsaw. So take your time fell a tree with hand tools and be mindful of your surroundings and like people have said don’t do anything your not comfortable with start small.
-
Oh btw felling trees with hand tools will make your arms grow into tree trunks so that a plus.
-
Oh btw felling trees with hand tools will make your arms grow into tree trunks so that a plus.
(lol) (lol) ;D That is for sure )W( ;)
-
All of the above! Nobody has really conflicting views, we just said it differently! Be extremely careful - have a buddy along, and a heavy duty first aid kit, just in case! Chain saws are very dangerous, practice on already downed trees. There should be a number of tree trimmers in your area that might be a source as well as the university extension service.
Hawkdancer
-
I cut firewood professionally in Tenn,, I would recommend not using a chainsaw unless someone mentored you,, or you have someone experienced to teach you,,
-
Pay attention to the wind as well.
There are many things to learn about using and downing trees with anything. Not just chainsaw. I’ve probably come closer to losing a toe with a axe than a chainsaw.
Honestly I think it is a good practice to have someone with you no matter how much experience you have. I know people who have lost their lives trimming limbs off a tree when it rolled and pinned them. They were alone and probably still alive but couldn’t get free. Another person could have saved them.
Before you drop a tree you have to study it.
Is it leaning?
Does it have heavy branches hanging from one side.
Never underestimate the wind. Just a little breeze can completely change how a tree will fall.
If it’s leaning one way and the wind is blowing the other. Let it stand until the wind is in your favor.
That all goes for anything you use to drop it.
Also once it is safely on the ground it is not without treat.
Be careful when removing limbs that tree doesn’t roll onto you.
Try to anticipate what will happen as you cut limbs.
Should you cut from top down? Or bottom up. Usually one of the two is better. One will pinch the saw making it tight in the tree.
Keep whatever tool you use sharp.
Don’t cut into dirt and stones.
Wear proper clothing.
As Eric said don’t daydream.
Always remember and be aware of where your helper is. Don’t accidentally injure them.
Bjrogg
PS sometimes I take for granted how many things I have learned over my lifetime that others never have the opportunity to even experience.
I’m pretty sure if you find someone who makes a lot of firewood and give them some help. They will probably teach you a lot.
-
I won't tell you how but I'll tell you a healthy respect of the tool is important. I was very afraid of chainsaws when I started using them and while I no longer fear them I respect the damage they can do like any power saw. Pay attention to the saw but also where your body is, also make sure your feet are stable, slipping while cutting is a no no. Last thing, if you think something is a bad idea don't do it, most of the time when I hurt myself it's cause I did something I knew I shouldn't )W(
-
What Eric said.... but no one else is talking about chaps and a helmet... if your wear these you’d be much safer.... and with the two story’s of pat and Eric cutting themselves... they most likely wouldn’t have gotten to flesh if they had had chaps on. ;)
Chainsaw chaps are the best, the stop the blade before it gets to your leg. Also they are great for walking through brambles : )
-
Proceed with extreme caution. Their is a reason they are called widow makers.
-
Lots of good advice above.
I would add that you should never have any part of your carcass in line with a kickback. Don't cut with the blade centered in front of you--have it off to the right if you are right handed. (Try not to be left-handed lol.)
You need to read every cut before you start it. Cuts when the tree is on the ground are just as likely to bind the saw as standing trees.
Make your escape route at 90 degrees to the line of fall!
-
We need to note that the originating poster is a 16 year old boy. Stick to a handsaw, please.
-
Top marks for thinking big! My boy is 20 and only now am I starting to train him on safe chainsaw use with a small saw and 14inch bar (which I keep very sharp) and only with him working under close supervision.
-
ok guys! thanks! lots to think about and dont worry, my plan wasn't to start with the chainsaw, i just wanted to get some basic information about felling trees. I know how dangerous chainsaws can be. yesterday i went to home depot and picked up an axe, a big hacksaw, and a sharpening stone for the axe. its gonna be a while before i trust myself to handle a chainsaw regularly. maybe a couple years. but i know one time chopping wood with a saw isn't enough experience to cut a tree down.
definitely still want to learn how to use one, but ill see if anyone i know regularly uses a chainsaw and ill see if they'll teach me more about it and how to use it. until then, ill be using my axe and hacksaw.
-
Not trying to scare you Russell. Just wanting you to be careful with your saw and axe.
Just because you use hand tools doesn’t make it trouble free. Even beavers get into trouble.lol
Bjrogg
-
We need to note that the originating poster is a 16 year old boy. Stick to a handsaw, please.
yes, im 16, but i think a couple of you are thinking im asking only about a chainsaw. I want to know how to be safe when felling a tree, whether with a chainsaw, hacksaw, axe, whatever... and how to do it proficiently without damaging the wood and getting the best stave out of the wood. I get chainsaws are dangerous, I really do, but there are a bunch of other dangers feel i should know about and that i know want to avoid. A chainsaw is dangerous, and i can choose to not use it, but falling trees can be just as dangerous. so before we talk about the tools, can we talk a bit more about the general process? ;D )W( )-w(
-
Not trying to scare you Russell. Just wanting you to be careful with your saw and axe.
Just because you use hand tools doesn’t make it trouble free. Even beavers get into trouble.lol
Bjrogg
dont worry, im not scared. tools are dangerous when you dont know how to use them, so i just gotta learn how to use them, and how to be careful with them.
so what im getting for the general stuff is to look at where the tree, where its leaning, what might be caught up in it, and to watch the wind. right? then I cut a chunk out on the side i think its gonna fall to help it fall that way (with my axe or cut the wedge out with my hacksaw), then on the other side, cut straight across into the triangle i just cut out, get a wedge into the horizontal line, and hammer it in until it falls, and then once it does, run the heck out of there (lol) right?
i gotta read back and look at everything said again lol
-
Start with saplings. Even just 6 inch diameter tree can hurt you. To learn how to fell a tree safely, you need to learn to read trees, winds, and surroundings. A crosscut saw is the best tool to get.
For any tree bigger than that, I almost always use a come-along winch to pull its top to the direction I want and use a reciprocating saw. If you get a widow-maker, use the come-along to pull the bottom to bring it down safely.
-
Whoo! just re read everything and im not even going to try and respond to everything but thankyou guys! this is really good information!
Hawkdancer, Ill definitely save a couple staves for you!!! but with mailing some billets might work better...
thank you Eric! thats actually really good information you shared!
Same with you BJ! now i got my pre chop checklist!
Im gonna print and write down all of this stuff and add it to the binder i got from Pat! better yet ill start another one!!!
-
Cut the birdsmouth to near the centre then cut from the back toward the centre. The cuts must NOT meet, there is a section uncut called the hinge. Take a big fat wedge and sledge hammer, hammer the wedge into the back cut and this tips the tree into the birdsmouth, once the tree starts to pivot into the fall step back a few paces and be ready to run if you need to. Its much safer to jump holding a hammer than a running chainsaw.
-
We need to note that the originating poster is a 16 year old boy. Stick to a handsaw, please.
He is old enough to drive a car which is a lot more dangerous than a chainsaw
-
Russell, we are the same age and I have been taught to fell trees with a chainsaw, and you certainly could learn from someone.... just wear chaps and a helmet so the kickback won't cut your head in half if you make a mistake ;D. but when I'm cutting staves I like using a crosscut saw and axe anyway, its much more fun, I feel like an old classic logger or something, or someone long ago building a log cabin ;D ;D )W(.
but anyway here is the traditional way to fell a tree with a axe and saw or a chainsaw...
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50864740572_b466227bdb_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2kuK6gJ)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/2kuK6gJ) by Livvydog (https://www.flickr.com/photos/141458655@N02/), on Flickr\
the hinge helps guide the tree down, and you cut the big wedge out on the side the tree is leaning normally, it will fall in the direction you cut the large wedge out of. The hinge is the piece of wood that you don't cut in between the wedge and the back cut that you make with a saw..
-
The notch faces the direction you want the tree to fall. First stand back so you can see the whole tree and where the center of gravity is to see which it favors to fall.
-
We need to note that the originating poster is a 16 year old boy. Stick to a handsaw, please.
He is old enough to drive a car which is a lot more dangerous than a chainsaw
There is something to that, but.... you have to be trained to drive a car, pass a test to prove that you are proficient. I’ve been thinking and cannot remember my age when I started using a chainsaw bucking firewood, was young enough that pumping the bar oil with my thumb was difficult ( the saws we had did not have auto oilers) . Was probably early teens when I started felling trees. I don’t remember well the one on one instruction I received, as I believe it came in tif bits here and there and the learning was natural. Most kids now are not growing up the way I did, and the work that came natural to me and the caution and awareness that goes along with it is not there. You cannot learn to use a saw proficiently and safely to fell trees from a video. There are countless variables that only experience can teach. One on one teaching is also difficult as it is hard to hear over a screaming saw, and being close to the operator can be a dangerous situation. There is good advice given here and bad, good instruction and bad. Some is regurgitated, some is just the way people do it not knowing there is a better or safer way. Lots of ways to skin a cat, and people develop their own way of doing things and that becomes the right way for them. People with thousands of man hours on a saw regularly have life changing or ending accidents that are a result of complacency and doing the things that has always worked for them.
My advice to you, start cutting 4” or smaller diameter trees with a hand saw and axe Read the lean of the tree and slope of the land it’s on. Pay attention to the soundness of the tree, a tree that you think is sound but is rotten inside can make for a bad day, it is unpredictable. I do not cut a 4 inch diameter tree the same way I do a larger diameter tree, but for learning purposes it would be good for you to wedge cut and back cut as if it was a large tree and learn how the timber reacts in different situations. Look up how to make a proper wedge cut and back cut. Should be videos on it, try to find a video from a saw mfg or other professional source. There is more to it than hacking out the wedge and making the cuts meet. Do not cut when it’s windy, this is your hobby and you don’t have to cut in those conditions, so don’t.
Be careful.
-
You all are scaring him. Caution is good but using a chainsaw is not rocket science. You just have to be mindful when using one and pay attention to what is happening around you.
-
What's so hard about rocket science? You only have to consider fluid mechanics, gravity, materials strength, navigation, thermodynamics, electronics, chemistry, coworkers, and a few other details. ;D
-
I doubt this is scaring anyone.... he’s not a baby :D ;) ::)
-
Regarding the ideal number of hands required...
Mick and Paddy are walking down alongside the woods and see a sign:-
"Tree fellers wanted"
Mick say "Ah, sure 'tis a shame there's just the two of us" ;D
Del
PS. The old ones are the best, and no offence intended by racial stereotyping .
-
I doubt this is scaring anyone.... he’s not a baby :D ;) ::)
Exactly
-
So, I live in Wales and our church hired in a crew of 3 professionals to fell a dangerous, very rotten tree overhanging the building. When they arrived it turns out they were a group of Irish lads. So they were a crew of t'ree fellers who were tree fellers that were felling that tree...
-
https://www.safetymanualosha.com/cutting-down-on-chainsaw-injuries/
-
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is cutting loaded branches or tree tops. I cut a sapling that a storm downed pine had bent over beneath it, I cut it near the pine tree trunk, it sprung back and hit me in the shoulder so violently that it knocked me off my feet and back about 6 feet. If it had hit me in the head it would have killed me. I was carelessly standing in its spring path.
Another time I cut an osage branch on a downed tree that a bulldozer had pushed over. I cut the limb I intended to cut OK but didn't notice the one behind it that was loaded with tension. My saw cut through it as well, it sprung forward and hit me dead center in the mouth.
I was knocked backward, I saw stars and the blood flew. The first thing I did was to run my tongue over my front teeth to see if I still had any, thank goodness they were still intact.
You gotta' be careful.
-
it sprung back and hit me in the shoulder so violently that it knocked me off my feet and back about 6 feet. If it had hit me in the head it would have killed me. I was carelessly standing in its spring path.
They call those 'baba chars' (barber chairs) here in Maine. Mainers can have thick accents.
-
You don’t need to be afraid of a chainsaw. Yeah, they can mess you up... so learn how to use it safely. The bigger the displacement of the saw, the bigger the chance of fatal kickback. A small 50-60cc farm saw will cut just about anything you will ever use as a bowyer. You don’t need a 100cc pro/milling saw.
Watch videos. There are many, many professional felling tutorials out there. It really all comes down to proper setup of your directional hinge and wedges. You can get big trees to fall safely and exactly where you want them with a little planning and a good hinge.
Wear your PPE. I was almost killed a few weeks ago by a large and unseen dead branch hanging in the canopy while felling a massive 30” osage. It missed my head by a foot. Observe the canopy very thoroughly for widowmakers.
Start with small trees. They’re pretty harmless. Huge trees hold their weight in gold in clean bow staves, but they can kill you or your equipment in the blink of an eye.
Have a clear exit path and as the tree is almost ready to let go, position your body so you can leap out of the way if needed. Learn your equipment, learn the process and operate with confidence. Timidity and uncertainty can be fatal.
Edit : I just saw you’re 16 years old. Cut firewood for a few years and learn to set up a proper directional hinge with an axe and hand saw. Trees up to 10-12” or so (as long as they’re not super tall and heavy) will be no problem to learn on with hand tools and you’ll get plenty of staves!
-
Its tbe canopy that causes most of the dangers, that's why a pro team sends a climber up to remove all the branches before the stem is brought down, the stem is the easy bit, unless its rotten, that's a whole different can of worms.
-
Russell, clean out your mailbox, It's full! As everyone said - be careful and pay attention to the job at hand! That applies to any sharp tool, and especially power tools!
Hawkdancer
-
Thanks guys! I found a place to cut some trees, I promise i wont be using my chainsaw, i spent around an hour and a half sharpening my axe so im not gonna let that time go to waste! )W(
Hawkdancer, I cleared my mailbox out!
So im for sure not gonna start out with a chainsaw, and i never was! lol! ;D I know alot of the hackberry trees are around 6" so im gonna shoot for around that width. i should be able to get at least 2 staves out of a tree like that, but lets be honest. i doubt ill find a perfect tree. Ill probably find one under 6" or over 6" or whatever. either way, i gotta start somewhere, ill make sure im starting safe though! ;D