Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Primitive Skills => Topic started by: Yooper Bowyer on March 22, 2021, 08:01:47 pm
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I just pulled out a deer hide I had frozen in a snow bank over the winter. The hair practically fell of, and I think it took the epidermis with it. Most of the flesh cam off easily except for two large chunks on either side of the neck. To clean it and keep it safe I submerged it in the lake for the night.
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That's 1 way to do it. ;) :) Good luck, look forward to seeing how it turns out.
Pappy
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Makes it sound easy! If the hair was in large clumps, you probably only need to give the hide a once over to be sure the epidermis is off. Have fun, and stake well! (lol)
Hawkdancer
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I just love the texture of the hair off hide. Can I turn it into leather without taking the grain off? How does bark tanning compare?
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Personally, I think you get softer leather with brain tanning, but I am no expert. You do have to smoke the hide to "set" the oils. Have not used the bark method.
Hawkdancer
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I don't really want soft leather, I want something that is flexible, but can hold its own shape and is not affected by water like rawhide. (this is for a quiver, not a vest)
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I dislike bark tanning because I suck at it (lol)
But if you brain tan it’s fairly important to have all the grain off... which is the hardest part. I would be surprised if the ice bank would do that... 3-5 days in a lye solution and then several hours at the fleshing post scraping the grain off.... but this is just how I was taught. There’s so many ways to tan a deerskin :)
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I made a quiver out of bark tan deer skin. (Didn't tan it myself, although that's on the to do list next time I whack something) It's a lot stiffer than brain tan (but of course a lot softer than rawhide) and seems stronger. It seems pretty water resistant too.
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That's what I want, I'm thinking something like thin boot leather.
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Just brain tan and let dry, don’t stretch as it dries , it will dry stiff. Pappy
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Won't it dry as stiff as rawhide? I guess that was I can always go back and redress and stretch more if need be. I'm planning on giving it a weak vinigar bath if need be. I've been wondering, what part of the process makes it rot resistant?
Thanks,
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Ya it will dry stiff, thought that's what you wanted, :-\ I always go for soft so maybe this is above my pay grade, ??? ;) :) :) smoking will keep the bugs away and keep it from rotting I suppose, never had any trouble with rotting and have kept just raw hide and un smoked brain tan for years with no problems ,so not sure that is much of a issue. :)
Pappy
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Good to know, Thanks.
I'm looking for something between the texture of rawhide and fabric, something like cow leather if possible. Maybe a medium amount of softening will get that.
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Wished I had more or better advice but I don't. Good luck and hope it turns out just like you want it. :)
Pappy
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Thank, so do I!
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So it got a little side tracked, I've been working on it whenever I get a chance.
I have fleshed it and grained all but the neck. I have half a mind to just cut the neck area off because I know it will give me a lot of trouble softening as well.
It looks like there will be enough for one quiver (taken from the center of the back) and a lot of smaller things like gloves, bags, etc.
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you can use the stiff neck for bottom of quiver.. I use them for bottom of quivers and moccasins. bottoms..gut
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Ok, I may well do that, but I'll probably leave it as rawhide. It must be around 1/4" thick, I can't believe it!
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brain it too.. it will soften up some.. but still be stiffer than the rest of the hide, if you didnt thin it any.. mine got soft but still have a body to them.. gut
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I'll see what I can do, the neck is the only part where the hair didn't slide, and it is just plain painful to grain and membrane, I'm afraid I wouldn't do a great job there anyway. We'll see.
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I would say what your trying to get as a product to use here is the consistency of how a parafleche is made.That is basically rawhide that is pounded with a wooden mallet onto a harder surface.It will become pliable but still stiff.It will change to a whiteish color also unless it is dyed or painted.It can be water resistant proofed the old way with prickly pear catcus juice or as I do with bees wax melted into it.No need for brains.
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Interesting... I'm really to far into this one to try it, but I'll keep it in mind for next time. :)
I finished graining yesterday and gave it a little vinigar to help softening. Next I need to membrane it and apply dressing.
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You seem like someone invigorated to be making things out of natural material.Rawhide is rawhide no matter what stage it's in.
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I'm about ready for this to be done. I have other projects to work on and I'm sure I can get more hides next fall.
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Looking forward to your productions.
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I just 'membraned' it, I fell I did an even worse job at that then I did at graining, between the acid and maybe to rounds in the dressing I can get it to be flexible at lest. To get a more or less even color I may give it a very light smoking and then dye it.
This fall I need a much better scraping rig..
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It is almost impossible to remove all of the membrane on the flesh side on a beam or even in a frame.Leaving a little bit of meat on the hide is a good thing and helps for the removal of it.
I frame mine.Flesh it.Let it dry.Sand the flesh side with 60 and 80 grit sand paper.60 grit used on most of the areas.I use 80 grit on the flank areas.This will get rid of a high percentage of the membrane.With brain tanning it is important to remove all barriers that stop the brain oils from penetrating.At this stage it is rawhide with the hair & epidermis on the hair side yet.
From there I proceed to dry scrape the hair and epidermis off.Sanding that side also after completeing that step.After cutting it out of frame it is ready to be brained.I rope my hides dry.
I've done this brain tanning both ways with the wet scrape/soften in the frame method and the dry scrape/soften on a rope method but prefer to do it the dry scrape way.
In a nut shell that's my procedure.You can change gears so to speak to remove hair and epidermis with lyme after fleshing and sanding in the frame too.It will need to be neutralized after that step then too.There is no scripted absolute way.The product will come out pretty much the same.
I will say the dry scrape way will produce a more slightly suedeish type surface and if there are chatter marks from the scraper that are'nt removed through sanding they will be there compared to the wet scrape way.Some quill workers and bead workers prefer one or the other.
Another thing is softening in the frame will produce an overall thinner leather and actually be larger than it's size as rawhide.It'll lay flat better on the edges for pattern making things.Once you start your there till it's dry,but will generally dry a little faster.
Roping dry produces thicker leather that can be a little wavy on the edges.It will lose around 25% of it's size as in a rawhide state.A roped hide will gain a little width wise but not length wise.Once you start you have an option of finishing it or sticking into a plastic bag twisted tight to prevent drying and getting back to it at a later time.
Through trial and error you will get your best tools and fleshing and dehairing rigs made.I've shown many pictures in posts in the primitive skills section of this forum.
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Glad to see you jump in here Ed. Tradescraftman Ed is very knowledgeable about working hides. He has helped myself and many others on this site with his many tips and years of experience with hides of all kinds. Don’t be afraid to pick his brain and ask his opinion. He also does some beautiful leather and bead work. Makes top shelf, beautiful and functional stuff. He understands how different hides and different methods of perpetration of them effects the end product.
Bjrogg
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second BowEd is a great wealth of knowledge.. he helped me tremendously on my project.. forever grateful.. gut
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What you guys do with success is a product of your own ambition.You deserve all the credit.As I know myself what your going through.
"Nothing like smoked brain tanned leather".......or NLSBTL for future reference.....Ha Ha.
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Well, I softened it today and it was easier than anticipated. This may have something to do with the fact that the hide has been in the solution for a few days waiting for a sunny day, and I'm sure the vinigar helped to. It was amazing to see a slippery animal skin turn into leather just like that. I thought it was turning out softer than it did, but it is about the consistency I was looking for. I left a little grain on the back, but that is coming off with a little abrasion. It's airing out now, I will post photos later today.
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Congratz! buckskin is a lot of work! but also one of the most amazing transformations, from sorta nasty smelly slimy skin to amazing soft and wonderful smelling buckskin! I have so many furs to do and a few more deerskins... but i don't know how to tan fur on yet only one chipmunk out of the 5 or six we taned as a test turned out right :P
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I thought It was finished, but after letting it air out it stiffened up >:(
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never really done one like that but you are still probably going to have to stretch and pull it until it is dry instead of just letting it dry on it;s on. :)
Pappy
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I did pull it, but I thought it was dry and it turned out not to be :-\
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Been there. :)
Pappy
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usually to tell if it is dry I just squeeze it in my hand, if it fluffs right back out it is dry , if not it isn't.
Pappy
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Yeah .... you gotta stretch till REALLY dry that’s super hard to judge... once you get one buckskin go back to it and feel it compared to the one your working :)
Another way I was taught is if you stretch it and the hide snaps back like rubber band it’s dry if it stays when you pull it it’s wet... also put it against your lips and feel how dry it is :)