Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => English Warbow => Topic started by: Ruddy Darter on March 27, 2021, 08:28:47 am
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Just finished heat treating this bow yesterday (with linseed oil). I removed about 30 thin rings off the back and kept as many thick rings as I could. (I was pulling it to 110+@26" before the heat treat so I'm estimating the draw weight at 30"). The bow length is just under 75". It has reflex top limb and reflex the bottom limb and and waves between these the length of the bow, I had to straighten with heat a few times for alignment. I've really tried to get all the limbs working throughout the length. How does the tiller look?
( I feel I'm pulling the bow to about 28-29")
R.D.
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Top limb is pretty stiff. Bottom limb looks ok. I would prefer a bit more elliptical tiller with less bend in the handle.
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Agreed :)
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Thanks, yes that top limb has been a constant sticking point, the reflex outer limb just didn't want to move from the off, and to compound it the bottom limb deflex wanted to move a lot more than the rest of the bow, so it's been a balancing act, and the top limb wood is getting a lot thinner in comparison, I might try and hollow the belly a bit that end. O.k., thanks again for the input. It's been a good practice piece before I work on a yew bow.
R.D.
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You are at the point where you don't want to lose potential draw weight by fiddling with the tiller.
I'd try taking a bit more off the final third of the top limb and no more heat to that entire limb.
I'd give the bottom limb another heat treat, applying a little reflex to that part of the bottom limb that is bending the most.
Sometimes with heavy bows, you need to accept a less than 'pretty' tiller and follow what the wood is doing.
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Thank you meanewood,
That sounds good to me, I will take another thin skim at that point on the upper limb and do as you recommended for the lower, and call it a day at that. It feels that it would shoot quite well as is. I'll give that a go this afternoon. 8)
R.D.
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I've taken a skim off the outer top limb, and now heat treating in two stages, I've hit the bottom limb in two deflex areas ( where the islands of growth ring are) with a little leather wrapped in tin foil underneath so I could reflex them a little.(it's clamped to a length of 2×4 covered in tin foil clamped in a work bench).Just letting that cool off then I'll heat treat the whole limb again as one.
I have also reimbursed the trapping on the back a bit more with a scraper.
I'll post how it turns out,
R.D.
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Looks like it would be better up the other way...
Del
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Thanks Del, I see how this comes out and that may be a good option. I had it in my mind from the beginning to keep the reflex end up top, thinking better to lift the arrow when loosed (?) (And also the way it grew if that has any bearing how the bow performs and holds up later in the future (?). Either way hopefully I'll see tomorrow what's up from down :D, and hoping a stiff neck and shoulder eases off by then.
R.D.
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Del means a flatter belly and a rounded back :) I think :)
If the tiller is wrong you'll lose draw weight to set anyway....plus the bow won't shoot as well? Forget the draw weight - perfect tiller is the goal not high draw weight. The weight is secondary to the tiller.
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Del means a flatter belly and a rounded back :) I think :)
If the tiller is wrong you'll lose draw weight to set anyway....plus the bow won't shoot as well? Forget the draw weight - perfect tiller is the goal not high draw weight. The weight is secondary to the tiller.
I mean the lower limb appears to be a tad weak and would thus maybe be better as the upper, but it's hard to be sure as the staves has some unstrung curves. Thus I just suggest trying it to see if feels, looks, performs better up that way.
Mind I do agree with the rounded back wider flatter belly comment.
Del
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Ok, I gave it a try today. I took a couple of pics to give an idea of the profile I have, I may round the front more as you say.
Here's pic and vid. And pic of bow at rest after. No cracks or crysals thus far. I'm not going to spend much more on this, as I say more of a practice piece and I want to get on with other stuff. The stave was from a large tree and a smaller diameter tree would of been better suited, I have two more staves of this stuff to play with, maybe try a primitive. I'll have fun loosing some arrows from it though.
R.D.
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The shape really isn't bad. I've seen tons of warbows with similar tiller shapes online. Just not the ideal elliptical shape some of us like. Why would a smaller diameter tree be better? I'd much prefer to control the crown on a flat back stave. I've crowned the backs of boards and staves without negative results.
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The smaller diameter younger coppiced trees of this stuff have denser larger growth rings, and has better quality even straightness throughout and generally knot free, I've had a couple in the passed but didn't really have the ability then to get the most out of them, I feel I'd have a better chance of getting nicer bows from them now.
R.D.
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The smaller diameter younger coppiced trees of this stuff have denser larger growth rings, and has better quality even straightness throughout and generally knot free, I've had a couple in the passed but didn't really have the ability then to get the most out of them, I feel I'd have a better chance of getting nicer bows from them now.
R.D.
Gotcha. That makes sense.
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It's looking good now, the slightly stiff final third of the upper limb is still there, but because of the original reflex in that area, it just means that this area is working (bending) as much as the rest of the bow and after all, the reason for tillering is to get all parts of the bow to share the load (compression).
If you try for a perfect tiller and don't allow for the reflexed or deflexed areas, then you don't share the load.
How did the draw weight turn out?
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Thanks for the advice on this Meanewood, it's turned out quite nice :OK, I haven't measured the draw weight but I can't imagine it being much different with the thin skim I removed and with more of the bow moving. (To measure the draw weight accurately I have to pull down the scales by hand on the tiller with my poor set up and my neck and shoulder isn't quite up to it, and probably the cause of the strain too ;D)), It feels full on drawing it, and apart from a little bit of deflex returning bottom limb not taking any set to see as yet (I put quite a bit of heat on that limb), and looking pipe straight this morning :) . I'm hoping to loose some arrows some time later this week. (SH)
R.D.
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I'm glad it's turned out to your liking.
Good to see you using old tools like that square and of course the shinto rasp is a must for bow making!