Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bradsmith2010 on April 14, 2021, 05:05:16 pm
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Im just making this up so bare with me,,
this is 1000 years ago, the master bow maker is teaching his son,, ok, the son has the bow tillered out the best he can and shows it to the master bow maker, the master picks it up,, feels the taper looks at the unbraced profile, braces it looks at it,, then picks up an arrow he thinks will work shoots at the target,, hits perfect,, the arrow flying straight as dart,, the young son says yes but what about that spot on the belly that looks a little off,,,,,the master says ,,,, look at "that spot" as he points to perfectly executed shot,, (-S
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That's the difference between an archer/hunter and a bowyer. The hunter wants to hit the bullseye, the bowyer wants the bow to not break down.
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I want both,, :) the master knows that at some point the way the bow shoots is more important than the way the bow looks,, :)
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Of course, but a perfectly tillered bow will keep shooting a lot longer ;)
I agree though, sometimes done is better than perfect.
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done can be perfect,, right,, :)
more emphasis on being able to shoot and knowing when a bow is shooting well,, a bow that is well tillered is going to last longer, thats a given,,, I guess what im hinting at, is just because it looks well tillered does not mean it is well tillered,, there is more to it than that, and part of that is learning to shoot well so you can tell...
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Love the story brad :)
And a great point...
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just something to think about as you gain experinece in bow making, every bow is different and many different approaches produce a fine bow, but mainly enjoy the process and seeing the arrow fly,,
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I like your story Brad : )
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More likely the youngster sees the perfect shot and goes 'sweet that's good enough then'....the master goes 'it may be good enough for this shot and a few more but that spot on the belly will eventually break your heart....that the bow shoots well is a good starting point but a bow that shoots well for many years is the goal'
Everybody will have a different view on this sort of stuff ;)
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Bows of good wood, that are well designed, perfectly tillered (whether they 'look perfect' in the mind's eye or not), and dynamically balanced will shoot like that right out of the gate, predictably, repeatedly, with longevity... but lesser bows can send the first arrow to the mark too. So that one shot shouldn't be a definitive gauge.
To my thinking, a Master of his craft doesn't let something of importance by him as 'good enough'.
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great points,, I have a bow now I have been shooting every day for the last few months, doing a virtual competition,, I made it 25 years ago,, its a good example of durability and accuracy,, I have a feeling it will shoot that way as long as I live,, I have to give credit to Jim Hamm,, he seleceted the wood and guided me through the tiller process,, its a testiment to his skill as bow maker,, and teacher,,, so I feel lucky to have that bow as a bench mark and example of extreme accuracy and durability,,I just feel his presence every time I go out to shoot it,,
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In my mind the master knows when to stop tillering and the student will learn that with each bow he builds as he's learning.
With the right arrow a simple stick and string sill shoot well. Without the right arrow the best tillered bow won't shoot well. To me the arrow is the most critical part of the combo.
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great poiint Pat,, how did I skip that, :D
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In my mind the master knows when to stop tillering and the student will learn that with each bow he builds as he's learning.
With the right arrow a simple stick and string sill shoot well. Without the right arrow the best tillered bow won't shoot well. To me the arrow is the most critical part of the combo.
This is where I have problems! I get my tiller exactly how I want it way before I get to FD which I guess is good, but then the issue is I can’t drop the weight without scraping and then messing up my perfect tiller, and then I hit FD and I don’t worry about the tiller because it WAS perfect.... real problem.... and arrows as well, I have a hard time getting a perfect arrow. Only one that I’ve made has ever shot perfect...
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C'mon Pat, as bowyers, we have to build bows under the assumption that the arrow will be properly matched to the bow... and that's more of a spine thing anyway. So assuming the right arrow is used for each, which bow will shoot better, the one expertly tillered(to include dynamic limb harmony), or the one whose tiller is not as good? We should build bows with purpose, not porpoise ;)
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Dunno, I seem to remember Ishi said any stick can make a bow but few can make an arrow
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Yes, but how long will that bow stick last?
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it only takes one shot to kill a deer
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But it takes a lot of practice to be able to make that shot, and if the bow breaks the deer won't be impressed.
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Well you guys have put me off bow making now, switching to baseball bats and chair legs, seems like the best use for wood : )
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yes there is the practice that is needed to shoot a bow but i also believe they said this more to show the importance of the arrow than to say the bow doesn't matter.
either way, its a great story brad! thanks for posting it! ;D
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just thinking about what we are doing and improving our process is great,, arrows and bows,, :NN
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A well tillered bow with a perfectly matched arrow will always shoot better but it is the perfectly matched arrow that is the key.
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It's actually the nut behind the wheel. For example...years ago when NC Trad Archers had their trad shoot near Hickory, NC they started a primitive class. Like here, only string material was exempt. When we all came forward to start the round James Parker(he thought up the primitive class) was giving us the rules and someone asked him where his bow and arrows were. James ran down to the woods and came back with a sapling, some shoots and a hand full of pine needles and proceeded to hand straighten the shoots and tie pine needles in a spiral at the rear for fletching, pulled a string out of his pocket, braced the crude sapling bow and we were off. Guess who outscored everyone else...the master, James!
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I loved the story and the different philosophies behind bow building it revealed; all are very valid and for me change with the purpose of each bow, whether a quick fun build, a learning experience or best quality gift. Personally, I feel like my fletching sucks and arrow building is where I think I need to focus my efforts, I have come to the conclusion that my bows may be ok but my arrows do not fly as far, as fast or as accurately as the bows deserve,
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...and the picture perfect tiller id not always the best choice for that stave. :)
"Jawge!"
My wife is calling. Y'all will have to figure that for yourselves.
Jawge
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love that story bout the sapling,, wow, nice one, :)
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I think everyone can agree that we should always be working to make a bow with the best tiller we can,., but it may take a long time to master that aspect of bow building, especially without modern methods.... the deer won’t notice the difference between the best bow ever made and a far from perfect amateurs bow... so long as the broad head is sharp, the arrow flies true, and finds its way thru the beasts ribs :)
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no the deer does not care about tiller for sure,, and on that day the arrow shoots through the deer, the tiller is perfect,,as well as the arrow,, ;D cant improve much on that,,
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no the deer does not care about tiller for sure,, and on that day the arrow shoots through the deer, the tiller is perfect,,as well as the arrow,, ;D cant improve much on that,,
;D (SH) :-D
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What about a 2 day field target comp.....1 good shot ain't going to help you there ;)
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shooting well at a 2 day shoot is quite the accompishment no doubt,, just me,, Ill take the deer meat,, thats whats great about archery,, lots of ways enjoy watching the arrow fly,,