Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: superdav95 on August 03, 2021, 11:06:20 pm
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Hey all. Looking for some advice on this latest bow build I’m doing. I’ve done some research online on basic dimensions and materials and have come down to bamboo limbs 25” long and hickory handle which is left over scrap from another bow and maple tips/syas. Tit to tip it’s about 57” I’m hoping to get 40-50lbs draw but will see. I’ve been intrigued by some of the speeds that guys like Dave mead gets out of his bows. He seems to assemble them very quickly too. I figured I’d take a shot at making one anyway with my own tweaks. I used epoxy to glue up and plan to use some sort of wrap in addition to secure everything and make it look good. Any suggestions on this??? Also I used a shorter fire hardening method on the limbs while clamped in a jig to induce a reflex in limbs. I’ll post a few pics of my progress thus far. Let me know what you think.
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Nice so far. I have made quite a few of that style bow, and they perform well for such a simple design. I did break the limbs on a couple were the lmbs join the riser. Relieve the riser from the limbs in that area. I used hot glue as Dave Mead does for the glue ,and wrap thread over top. If you need to take one a part to make a correction you can remove the thread, heat the hot glue up ,and take the bow apart again, and it works fine to hold things together. Good luck with yours.
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Thanks bassman. What sort of speeds were you able to get out of yours? Also when you say relief did you mean at the top of the riser where it meets the limb. I rounded it a bit to account for some slight bending there if that’s what you meant. If not let me know. I do have some hot glue stick but was worried about it holding together. Would you recommend a higher heat melt glue or regular hot glue. I have some construction grade stuff but was never brave enough to try it. Yours held up ok even after several shots? Sorry for all the questions but just trying to pick your brain a bit 😎
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Yes, the bows are holding up fine. I used regular hot glue. Nothing special. Yes rounding the ends of the riser. The speeds out of those bows are typical of the speeds I get out of all my bows. No matter the design, or wood used. I only draw 25 inches so your numbers should be better if you draw 28. Build it correctly, and I think you will be happy with it.
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Thanks bassman! Just a quick update… I took your advise and decided to use the hot glue. I pulled apart my epoxy joints decided I would go for it! Worked better then I expected. I tillered and built two of these suckers today. Went together pretty quick actually once I got going. I made both to as close as 40lbs draw at 28”. Bow number 1 has the heat/ fire hardening treatment with induced reflex baked in. The control/test bow number 2 is also 40 at 28” but no heat treatment just air dried mosso bamboo poles split and shaped into 25” limbs. Bow 2 I used oak for the tips as opposed to the maple as I ran out of maple. Similar shape and tiller on both but very different results on the chrono. Bow 1 averaged 173fps with 450grain arrow. Bow 2 averaged 150 FPS with 450 grain arrow. Wow what a difference! I was amazed actually. I’d take these bows hunting without a problem or worry. These test bows were equally nice to shoot and accurate but speed was the difference. The other difference I noticed too was the set that they took acted shooting them in. I’ll post some pics of the set each took pretty drastic really. Let me know what you think! Haven fun here anyway.
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Well those pics are no good. Gonna post a link here…
Try these…
https://www.flickr.com/photos/193575471@N05/shares/3779S1
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You could proabaly pick up some more speed as the tips look quite big. As a comparison a Turkish hornbow I made 110#@28" had tips 80mm long, 11mm wide and 17mm deep.
Another thing you could look up is the Buhtanese bows and how they make them. Generally to get the best performance out of boo you would use the outer surface as the belly. Pre tiller the strips and any tweaking that needs doing is done by removing material from the sides of the limbs.
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superdav95, their you go, easy to build, smooth shooting, good speed, cheap to build, short, light, and handy in the woods etc. I cut arrow shelves in all that I built. My best to date is a 40 pounder with a 400 gr arrow with 25 inches of draw shooting 153fps through a chrony. 173 fps is good speed, you did an excellent job on that one. Should give you years of use as a hunting bow. Break a limb ,take it off ,and replace it. Congrads.
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I read were Buhtanese bamboo is unique to their area. Special so to speak, so they build their limbs belly out, and it works. I doubt Mosso bamboo would be up to the task of building that way.In any event you can do some tweaking here, and, their to get a little more performance, but a 450 gr arrow at 173 fps will dispatch a white tail with no problem. I have done it with a lot less over the years.
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Thanks bassman! I really think we are onto something here with heat treatment on bamboo limbs. Makes a huge difference as far as I can tell. The poles that I got last year have been sitting in my garage 7-8 months or so now. They were moso 5” round poles that I quarter them and shape them and thin them down to close to dimensions then heat bake to golden brown on belly. I also baked them while clamped in a reflex form. I think the moso bamboo is stronger on its outer layer/ back. So I think this stuff would suit well using a hardwood belly glue up with reflex induced. Would be interesting to try anyway.
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I went through the pain of backing floor board bamboo ,and made some bamboo backed bamboo limbs, and still got set. I put a sharper angle set of siyahs on those bows. I did heat treat a couple of sets of limbs on a form, and made them wide that ended up with a little more than an inch of set. I have no idea what kind of bamboo it is. I bought it on ebay ,and they were 24 inch pieces. I quit hunting, so speed is no longer my top priority. I still like making bows ,and shooting them in the back yard, and indoors in the winter time. Compound shooters get a charge out of every different bow I show them. Some even shoot them, and I have sold them a few.
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Huh. Interesting. I wonder if the difference in set is due to clamping into a reflex form while somewhat dry yet still raw bamboo then heat baking them to shape. I have a cheap moisture meter with probes and out of curiosity I tested the moisture content at raw stage and it was around anywhere from 11-13%. After heat treatment it wouldn’t even register a reading. Not sure exactly what that means but would figure it’s too low to measure. I knew white woods took to hardening with heat well but never figured bamboo to take to it so well. At least this moso pole stuff. It wasn’t too bad in price either if I recall I got it in Toronto from a bamboo supplier for around 80$ for 2 - 5”half round splits about 10feet long and Still have lots left over.
That’s great that you can find some joy in just making bows. Not everything has to be for a hunting purpose. I do hunt but I also just enjoy shooting my bows too. Cheers!
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You could proabaly pick up some more speed as the tips look quite big. As a comparison a Turkish hornbow I made 110#@28" had tips 80mm long, 11mm wide and 17mm deep.
Another thing you could look up is the Buhtanese bows and how they make them. Generally to get the best performance out of boo you would use the outer surface as the belly. Pre tiller the strips and any tweaking that needs doing is done by removing material from the sides of the limbs.
I’ll have to measure mine. I really made these quickly and just eye balled it and made all 4 of the tips same dimensions. That’s some serious draw weight out of your horn bow. Wow. I’d pull my shoulder out trying to shoot that one. Horn bows are a complete other level then my little bamboo bows. Thanks for the tip.
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Yes, horn bows are amazing. The time that it takes to complete one from beginning to end, and the skill set it takes to make a successful one, and then the way they draw, and shoot is awesome. The Turks were shooting 8 to 900 meters with them centuries ago. The guys that make them today are an elite group. Hats off to them.
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They look great!
What's the brace height?
AY
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Thanks Aussie! The brace is about a thumb and fist at the deepest part of limb on each side. I’m guessing around 6.5”.
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Good job. I'd love to see someone glue two slats together with the outside of the boo on back and belly for one of these and give the belly a good roasting before glue-up.
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OK guys I am intrigued.. I want to build one of these bows.. can someone send me a link or a video I can buy to get me going... gut
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Gutpile, get on utube, and check out Dave Mead website. He gives a blow by blow of what you would need to know. He even sales components, but you can easily make them your self. He uses Maple siyahs and risers ,and his own heat treated bamboo. I made my last one out of bamboo floor boards that works fine.
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OK guys I am intrigued.. I want to build one of these bows.. can someone send me a link or a video I can buy to get me going... gut
Sorry gut I just got done for the day and noticed this. I haven’t check recently but I think Dave Mead was sold out of his kits last I looked. Very cool guy though. Several months ago I reached out to him and he advised me to try and get my hands on some moso pole bamboo and experiment with it. I honestly put the poles I bought in my garage since then and got sidetracked with my hickory bows and every day would see my poles sitting there and just decided recently to just go for it. I took what I learned from my heat treatment of my hickory bows and applied it to the bamboo test bows and was amazed with results. Very neat design and simple to build. I was able to build a couple in a day. I took bassmans advised to use Dave’s advise and hot melt glue instead of epoxy. Mine holding up good. I can send you whatever you need to get going info wise. I’m learning here too so I’m no expert to say the least but will to answer any of your questions you might have about what I did to make mine.
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Here’s a couple more pics of my jig of sorts that I’ve been using to induce reflex during heat treatment. I put more reflex in this last set then my first few bamboo bows. Should be interesting if I can get more speed out of them. I was able to get 206fps out of a 50lbs draw on my third one of these! I drew it back to 30” and was shooting a 360 grain arrow this time instead of the 450grains but still pretty darn fast. The pic may not show well the screen on the chrono but will post a link if it doesn’t show. I’m baking another set of limbs as I type this shown in the jig set up pic. Let me know what info you need. these bows are pretty sweet and super easy to make.
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Good job. I'd love to see someone glue two slats together with the outside of the boo on back and belly for one of these and give the belly a good roasting before glue-up.
Very interesting idea. I might have to try this…
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Yes, the bows are holding up fine. I used regular hot glue. Nothing special. Yes rounding the ends of the riser. The speeds out of those bows are typical of the speeds I get out of all my bows. No matter the design, or wood used. I only draw 25 inches so your numbers should be better if you draw 28. Build it correctly, and I think you will be happy with it.
Sorry Bassman, I don't quite follow what you mean here. What do you mean by rounding the end of the riser?
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Aussie. Here’s what I think he means and how I took it. Bassman correct me if I’m wrong. Here’s a pic to illustrate… it’s the rounded edges that prevent pinching of the inner belly of the base of each limb. Hope this helps!
Dave
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Here’s the set I made tonight with more reflex. I just pulled them out of the oven. Hmm the smell of roasted bamboo in the house. Lol. I baked them for about an hour on convection mode at 250degrees F. I did this in hopes to permanently set the limbs in and hold the shape I want. I first roast them over a hot plate to golden brown or till most of the steam stops escaping the bamboo. You’ll see it spew out of the ends. Keep them moving and don’t burn them just golden brown. Here’s the reflex heat set I got after they cooled off. Should be good.
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Check out the Buthanese bows.
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Good job. I'd love to see someone glue two slats together with the outside of the boo on back and belly for one of these and give the belly a good roasting before glue-up.
I've been wondering about such results as well.
I was thinking a long bow made this way might be capable of being reversed should it develop a set. Perhaps strung first one way then strung the opposite the next day perhaps.
I was also wondering if the narrow American Bamboo cane poles often found for sale as fishing rods might be worked up into a passable small game bow by taking two slender sections with similar taper and joining them at the grip with a tight bedded dowel plug.
Next time I see any of these rods for sale I'll give it a go.
Been ages since I've been to any of the back woods stores that kept these in bundles by the front door. They used to have these locally at the strangest places such as gas stations and hobby shops as well as sporting goods stores.
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well looks like I am going to have t do some research... cool stuff... mind blown on hot glue performance .. would of never expected that..gut
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Ya bownarra those buthanese bows are nice. Gutpile, let me know what you need to get going and I can help where I can. I don’t mind at all. There are lots of how tos out there but sometimes leaves more questions then answers. I checked out your site. Some very cool stuff. I may have to pic your brain on some knapping rock. I picked some and tried my hand at it and did ok but I’m sure just like anything else it’s gonna take me more practice to get the end result I want. Anyway I don’t mind sharing info like I said. That’s what this community is for.
Cheers.
Dave
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I have got to update that site.. it is over 10 years old with no updates.. haha.. My brother set it up and I don't even have access to it right now for updating. I got so much stuff to add its ridiculous.. my instagram has a lot of new stuff on it.. gut
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Where are you guys getting your large diameter bamboo?
Bamboo looks to be about 2 inch wide when prepared, is this about right?
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Yep 2 inches wide. I get 2 foot cut offs on Ebay. Don't know what kind it is ,but it works. Check ebay their are other places to buy it.
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Keith. I got mine from a bamboo supplier in Toronto Ontario. I buy it is 5” diameter poles hat are split into 1/4’s. I usually go about 2” wide on my limbs depending on how heavy draw weight I’m aiming for. The stuff I get is Mosso bamboo if it helps. It comes fairly green so I let it dry for a bit and also do a heat treatment on it for a bit of reflex to add little compression to belly side which you can see in my posted pics. Hope this helps
Dave
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Hi Dave,
These look like very good bows to build, so I will have a go at one myself. I have some moso bamboo and some maple. Do you have any handy dimensions that you could pass on for these bows? I can see that you said each of the bamboo limbs were 25 inches long and a max of 2 inches wide, but how long overall were the handle and siyah pieces?
Keep up the good work.
Bob
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Hi Dave,
These look like very good bows to build, so I will have a go at one myself. I have some moso bamboo and some maple. Do you have any handy dimensions that you could pass on for these bows? I can see that you said each of the bamboo limbs were 25 inches long and a max of 2 inches wide, but how long overall were the handle and siyah pieces?
Keep up the good work.
Bob
Thanks bob. I’m out at the moment but will send you some measurements later today when I get home.
Cheers. Dave
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Sorry bob. Got home late. I’ll post a few pics showing the variations of angle I set different test bows. The one in the photo that has the most reflex angle is the one I plan on belly laminating with Buffalo horn. The others I’m keeping as they are. The each shoot well. The handle section is approx 8” long shaped to your preference. I did some experimenting on handle shape and even put a shelf on one. Works ok. The one with no shelf just requires little more practice but shoots equally well. The thickness of the siyahs is about 1/4” or slightly less and tapered a bit towards the tip. The length of siyahs approx 8”. The 40lbs bow has limbs that are 24” while the 50lbs bow has the 25” limbs. The limbs on the 50lbs are slightly wider too at approx 2 1/8” while the other bow is 2”. I took a pic of the profile of angle I set the siyahs at onto the limb. I used Stanley or dewalt hot melt glue. Not the craft stuff. This stuff is higher heat and some of the testing I did to get to this glue was pretty conclusive as far as I’m concerned. Regular hot melt glue didn’t have the holding power. The yellow dewalt stuff is what I mostly use now as it holds really well. This combined with the lashing to hold down the siyahs and the handle lock it in. Never had one come apart yet and have lots of arrows through them. Hope this helps. Here’s some pics to show some angles. Good luck and have fun with it! Btw I also heat treat these limbs with a slight reflex over a hot plate until golden brown to drive out the moisture. I then bake them clamped to a form induced reflex for about an 1 or so at 250 degrees on convection mode. I usually go till the steam stops coming out the ends of limbs.
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Hi Dave,
Great looking bows, nice work!
Thanks very much for the information, I appreciate it. Don’t worry too much about the timing of your replies as I’m in the UK :)
I have roughed out the siyahs and handle pieces out of the hard maple. Fortunately the dimensions I used were decided upon looking at your original pictures, and they seem pretty close to what you have mentioned above, even the siyah angle. I went with 26 inch limbs for slightly less stress on them (as I’m out of bow making practice!), and I don’t yet know how good the bamboo pieces that I have will be. I have rigged up the bamboo pieces in the same way you did, with G-clamps, and used a heat gun to set them into a little reflex. I don’t have any way of baking them in that shape as you mentioned, but they are currently still clamped up, resting on top of my wife’s glass fusing kiln as it runs through a cycle. The outside lid of the kiln gets pretty darn hot, but not enough to set anything on fire, plus its a good long heating and cooling cycle (18 hours), so hopefully that will drive off much/most of any moisture they still contain.
My next step will be to glue up the limbs to the handle. I will be keeping my fingers crossed as this is the first bow I’ve made with siyahs, and hence so many glue joints. I will do the gluing for the siyahs when the limb/handle joints are set. In that way I can play about with the siyah alignment more easily, as there will be fewer variables in play.
I will post when Ive done the gluing and whipping of the joints…….
Thanks again, Bob.
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Great stuff bob. Glad I could be of help.
Cheers.
Dave
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Nice looking bow!
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Thanks guys. Very quick little bows. For what they are really.
Here’s a short video.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/jCYubBAtTprLiHsq7
Cheers.
Dave