Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: BowEd on August 12, 2021, 06:00:49 pm

Title: winged elm self bow
Post by: BowEd on August 12, 2021, 06:00:49 pm
Hello all.....I finally got ahold of some more winged elm,but I'm still hawking around for more.....ha ha.I seem to like that wood a bunch.The bow started out being 65" long but as the build went along some bug damage was revealed out on one of the tips.Luckily no other bug damage was revealed.Keeping the bow symmetrical I lopped off 3" off each end making it a 59" TTT bow.Made it close to 1 and 7/8" wide at the fades.I tillered it to 25" @ 51#'s.
I gave it around 3" of reflex and it retained at least half of that through tillering and shooting it in.A very mallable type wood I must say again.I took out a number of whoop tee doos on this bow not getting all of them quite completely out but good enough for me.One tip [top limb] kinda looks bending too much but it's pretty much just the hump of a whoop tee doo still intact.
I've always wanted to dye a bow green so here was my chance.Gave it some black highlites then too.I used some alcohol dyes.
Handle is wrapped with rawhide lace.Tips are overlayed with split antler tine on some pin nocked tips.Arrow pass is my usual slightly raised horn dot.Used some green wool for colorful silencers.Gave it a matte spar varnish wood finish.
I taped off marked some of my 30" arrows and shot it in the last few days.With it being so wide at the fades I was able to carve the handle to within an 1/8" of being center shot.Hits exactly where I'm looking at 15 to 20 yards with quite a few different arrows I had on hand.A right snappy shooter.This bow will more than likely go to a deer hunter in the ozarks of Missouri who has a 25" draw.
Bug damage on tip
(https://i.imgur.com/4s4UKc8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KSbpmE1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0Wo2JqH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JRIUszD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CJz7Cx4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/12SdSBG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/C6nVHEF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/J9vlV28.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DWqeFqS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9W6V8Wy.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uOHUUWy.jpg)
So far this is the only full draw pic I've got.I'll get Robin to handle the camera later for a better in hand picture.Top limb to the left.
(https://i.imgur.com/0gRxEpq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YlchlOx.jpg)
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Will B on August 12, 2021, 06:23:35 pm
Beautiful winged elm selfbow Ed!  Love the stain job and the antler overlays on the pin nock tips. Tiller looks spot on like all your bows. Thanks for posting!  Will
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Morgan on August 12, 2021, 08:57:09 pm
I like it Ed! How does winged elm compare to American elm side by side do you think? I sure like American elm.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: organic_archer on August 12, 2021, 09:06:11 pm
I love a good elm bow! The colors really pop. Nice work!
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Bob Barnes on August 12, 2021, 10:30:50 pm
Ed, thank you for posting this bow.  It's good for everyone to see what a nice hunting bow should look like...it's also good to see that 'stuff' happens, and that you just need to make what you have work.  The dye job is excellent, and I have done a few and know how hard the 'fading' of colors can be.  The tips are unique and very functional, and they look great too.  I look forward to a picture of the bow with a nice deer this season.  :)    :OK
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Gimlis Ghost on August 13, 2021, 12:25:09 am
Excellent workmanship and what looks to be a very nice piece of wood to start with.
I hope I can do as well one day.

I've found that when a piece of wood doesn't take a wood stain well leather dye can do wonders.
To get a even deep color on wood when using any stain or dye I have had very good results by thinning the dye or stain with alcohol or water for water based stains. After each of many applications any part of the wood surface that is more porous than the rest will hold the soaked in thinned dye and remain damp while the rest dries out. On each following application the driest portion of the surface will soak up more than the still damp portion so in the end the coloration will be very even.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: BowEd on August 13, 2021, 08:03:41 am
Thanks fellas.
I've found the red and american elm locally to not be what winged elm is for self bows although they all live up to their tough and elastic reputation.They just don't have the density as osage.It's their difference in density that seperates them and is more so evident within the elm species than any other wood I've found.The harder it is the more extreme designs I can put on them.
I've read they consider winged elm and the like to be a hard or rock elm.I also have a labeled winged elm bow grown in south carolina that's considerably harder than this one.The limbs can be made narrower then.All benefit from the heat.The winged elm gives it's identity away by the corkish raised veins on it's twigs.They are all subject to the dutch elm disease I understand.
It looks like a nice piece of wood now after heat treatment and adjustments.Before hand not so much.End grain will always soak in more dye than flat or edge grain wood.With woods like hickory and elm it is more so evident.It's the early wood that does that.I like to take advantage of that for a more varigated camoflauge look.
Deer season is just around the corner now.I wish everyone the best of luck.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: superdav95 on August 13, 2021, 11:02:35 am
Love the look of this thing.  Very nice!
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: AndrewS on August 13, 2021, 04:27:36 pm
Nice bow. I like the handle style of this "holmegaard style" bow 8)
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Selfbowman on August 13, 2021, 11:22:19 pm
Another fine bow Ed. I also like the stain. Makes your eyes look blue if your Arvin.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Stixnstones on August 14, 2021, 08:42:37 am
Cool lookin bow, looks like a smooth shooter
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: BowEd on August 14, 2021, 09:23:25 am
Thanks fellas.
Dyeing bows is usually not my forte but going for smooth shooting bows is.Getting the right darker colored forest green took a little mixing and testing of colors.This one draws pretty smooth.Although with the shortened power stroke of 18" the gain is a bit more per inch [almost 1/2 pound] than with a 21" power stroke and a 28" draw.That's with a 7" to the back brace height of course.
I have a 6'6" wing span so pulling to the corner of my mouth with a slightly bent bow arm gets me my 28".I'm sure the fella in Missouri will like it with his 25" draw anchor.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Marc St Louis on August 14, 2021, 09:41:32 am
Nice bow. 

I've only worked with Winged Elm once and was not impressed with the wood
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: BowEd on August 14, 2021, 10:07:36 am
Thanks Marc.....
As far as I can figure I've only made bows from 4 different types of elms.The winged elm from south carolina was definitely denser than the one from arkansas.The elm growing around me is sub standard compared to those.
Quite a varied diversity in density's within the elm species.Doing a specific gravity density test is an indicator besides how it feels in the hand.
The wider it needs to be for a 50# draw weight is a good indicator also all bows being the same length of course.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: loefflerchuck on August 14, 2021, 11:12:11 am
Awesome bow, and nice brain tan. Iím looking for a new hide.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Jim Davis on August 14, 2021, 12:21:14 pm
I've made several winged elm  bows using wood that grew here in western KY. Worked well, but I like Osage.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: BowEd on August 14, 2021, 12:51:14 pm
Your right JIm.It's hard to dethrone the king as I said earlier.Have you ever done a specific gravity test on yours?In other words how wide and long do you need to make yours to get a 50# draw at 28"?
The winged elm has a few characteristics about it that please me.Very mallable [by that I mean it holds the shape it is heated to].Takes heat treatment very good.Over all very elastic.All good bow making characteristics.To me it definitely is not a marginal type bow wood.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Don W on August 14, 2021, 03:21:12 pm
 :OK
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: BowEd on August 15, 2021, 06:40:22 am
The brain tan market out there is rather expensive these days unless you do it yourself Chuck.Give me a little time and a rut season and I'll see what I can do for ya.30 years ago I had an excess of brain tan.I've made about everything that can be made out of the stuff already.Maybe some of that local siberian elm if it's a dense elm could be a trade item.I've read it is not affected by the dutch elm disease.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Mad Max on August 15, 2021, 08:23:36 am
Nice one Ed :OK
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: bjrogg on August 15, 2021, 09:07:12 am
Nice bow Ed. Iíve only tried one Elm bow. The stave was given to me and Iím afraid I didnít do it justice.

I donít know what type it was, but it was not very dense. Seemed way softer than I was expecting. Iím going to give it a go again someday with some local stuff. I know after the Dutch Elm disease gets it itís  so hard the chain saw doesnít like it.

Bjrogg
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: BowEd on August 15, 2021, 09:48:35 am
Thanks fellas.
Here's what I mean about elms' diversity in density.The bow on the right was made 8 years ago and sold as winged elm to me at the 2012 classic.63" long.1 and 7/16" wide at fades.Pulls 54#'s @ 28".I was told it grew in south carolina.It's been through a few hunting seasons successfully and years of summer time shooting fun still holding an 1" of set back on the tips.It is as hard as some of my hickory and I know it is not hickory by working it.
The bow on the left recently posted on this thread.Sold as winged elm also but grown in arkansas.59" long.A scooch under 1 and 7/8" wide at the fades.Pulling 51#'s @ 25".
The wood of this bow made to the parameters of the previous bow next to it would only be a lower 40 pound bow at best.
Both bows start out at the fades at around 9/16" thickness longer bow & 5/8" thickness on shorter bow.7/16" thickness midlimb on longer bow & 1/2"  thickness midlimb on shorter bow.
(https://i.imgur.com/M7bJoeF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8V4ZMFW.jpg)
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: burchett.donald on August 15, 2021, 05:09:20 pm
  Really nice work Ed...Looks well balanced in your hands as all your bows do...I really like that stain  8)
                                                                                                                                                            Don
                                                                                                                                                       
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Pappy on August 15, 2021, 05:45:15 pm
Nice bow ED, I also like Winged Elm, makes a great bow if you can keep it dry during the build.  :)
 Pappy
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: Gimlis Ghost on August 16, 2021, 06:32:38 am
Apparently Elm was the most suitable bow wood available to the Danes for many centuries, Yew trees being a relatively recent import.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: gutpile on August 16, 2021, 10:01:41 am
Ed I am glad you found some... bow looks like it has some authority to it.. sweeet... gut
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: BowEd on August 16, 2021, 11:50:53 am
Thanks....No problem gut.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: simson on August 18, 2021, 03:57:24 am
Classy work, Ed. Like the stain and the tips!
Here in my homeland its getting hard to get good elm, most of them have the dutch disease.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: JW_Halverson on August 18, 2021, 11:48:09 pm
You sure have a way with self bows, Ed. Those limbs got everything they need and nothin' they don't.

THAT is a lethal weapon.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: BowEd on August 19, 2021, 09:39:21 am
Thanks fellas.....
The bow and string is in transport to it's new owner.I'll hear later from him how he likes it.He's a hunter.I bubble wrapped it double with 2 bamboo arrows and put it in a schedule 40 thickness pvc tube with 3/4" plugs in the ends.He makes his own bows too but has a busy life.
Just in time too.Deer season is upon us soon.Bow deer season starts in mid september.Here in Iowa the 1st of october.Leaves on the softer woods are beginning to turn a bit.Love this time of year.I've been practicing steady from a ladder stand.
Gonna use an osage this year with a red rat on it calling it the red rat bow.
Plenty of does around and their counterparts will show up when the time is right.
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: old man on August 19, 2021, 03:17:10 pm
Elm is a very nice wood and it will rivel any other wood for all around performance
Title: Re: winged elm self bow
Post by: BowEd on August 19, 2021, 06:27:38 pm
I stress to first time owners of these self bows that they are a very deadly weapon no matter what myth told them by naive people.
I gotta also agree.The things that help get good elm there as good bowwood are being tough & elastic with enough density to not chrysall or tension break very quick when put in more extreme designs.