Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Skeaterbait on May 12, 2008, 11:11:51 am
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Hey all,
I am looking for information on building a Cherokee style bow and was in hopes of bunch of knowledge crawling out of the woodwork (punn intended). I am not a big reader so I hate to go out and buy books just to build a particular bow, can anyone offer any specs and info on these bows?
Thanks much.
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I would advise reading Al Herrin's "Cherokee Bows and Arrows", and the Traditional Bowyer's Bible (Vol.2, I think) has Cherokee bow specs
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The typical Cherokee bow is a black locust, 55-70" long, about 1" to 1 3/8" wide Eastern Woodlands-style flat-bellied D-bow that bends slightly through the handle. Usually diamond nocks on both ends. The limbs don't taper in width much throughout their length, usually winding up nearly 3/4" wide or so at the nocks. Dingleberry posted one a couple months ago here that is very true to the design, and shoots great, too. I live right across the mountain from the Eastern Cherokee reservation, and there are still some guys over there making nice bows. At the risk of getting flogged, I don't put a lot of stock in Al Herrin's writing since I read his quote about the Cherokee having never using two-fletched arrows. Almost every example of old Cherokee arrows I have seen was fletched with the Eastern Woodlands two-fletch style. The Cherokee near me still use that style of fletching.
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Thanks HB. On the taper, is that a straight taper from the handle or does it stay parralell for a bit? How much handle do they have?
I took a look a the one that Dingleberry posted and got a pretty good idea but he didn't post any pics of the back or belly of the bow.
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Hey Skeater,
I went to the Smithsonian Institute in Washington D.C. this past February and got to view 2 cherokee bows and several arrows. There were from North Carolina. The two bows I saw were both made of black Locust. One was 62 1/2" long, the other was 58 1/2" long. The longer bow had diamond shaped nocks on both ends and a 4 or possibly 6 ply string. I believe the string was some type of vegetable fiber. It was very supple and very expertly made. But I know it definitely wasn't sinew.
The shorter bow had a diamond shaped nock on one end, and a nock that was assymetrical on the other, very similar to the Lenape bows illustrated in the book Native American Bows, Arrows, and Quivers, Vol. 1 by Steve Allely and Jim Hamm. This bow had no string.
Both bows were bend in the handle "D" bows. Their cross section was a flat rectangle throughout their length, with no visible thickening at the handle. They were about 1 1/2"-1 5/8" wide at the grip, and about 3/4 to 1" wide just below the nocks.
All the Cherokee arrows I saw were made of split hickory, except for two that were made from shoots. I believe the two shoot arrows were made from sourwood because they had a small pith in the center. The arrows were quite long, between 33-38", but were kinda skinny for their length. All the arrows had the tips sharpened to a steep point; none I saw had bone, metal, or stone points. The fletch was wild turkey wing feathers, cut in the distinctive eastern style 2-feather fletch. The fletch was not large, but trimmed quite close to the quill, about 1/2" in height at its highest. The nocks were very shallow.
If you want to get a real good look at what they looked like, I would suggest getting the NAtive American Bows, Arrows, and Quivers book that I mentioned above. It has very detailed drawings that are identical to the ones I saw at the Smithsonian. I know the illustrator Steve and he is a real stickler for accuracy when he draws, so you know what you are seeing in the book is the real deal.
Anyway, hope that helps!!
Billy
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I've really been wanting to replicate a cherokee style bow but I worry that the wide tips will slow the arrow down substantially and add hand shock. My draw is only 25'' so I guess I suffer from draw envy since everyone else seems to draw 28'' or more. Does having 3/4'' to 1'' wide tips adversly affect anyone here's cast or hand shock?
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Benjamin, not in this design, the Eastern woodland stuyle bows usually shoot pretty smoothly. They are quite thin at the tips, not as thick as most of our typical flatbows. And I would wager that there are more of us on here with 26" draws than 28". Skeater, like our bows, most of them varied a bit to the taste of the individual bowyer, but like Billy said, most are parallel much of the way down, at least to midlimb or even all the way to the nocks in the case of some of the narrower ones. Bear gut was the traditional string material when available, and some of the locust bows have a sapwood back.
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Looks like you got your info 'crawling out of the woodwork'. ;D
Sean
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You guy's are going to have to show ol' Skeaterbait pictures he is from Kansas, I think his wife has ta read this back to him. You know I'm kidding, right Lonnie ;D ::)
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Hey Dano,
My wife tells me you're pickin on me, that's ok I can take it. However, I am from the Missouri side of KC which you all know is the "Show Me" state so pics would be great. The info is fantastic guys, thanks a ton.
I tend to lean more towards the ELB style bows for my own taste but my new father in laws is quite proud of his Cherokee lineage so I thought I might make him a bow for his birthday (or Christmas at the rate I complete bows).
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Oh yeah, I guess the next thing will be finding some black locust. I have lots of osage and hickory but no locust, anyone know a good source for a cured stave or two?
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Hey, Skeater,
I happen to have built a pretty good replica of the Cherokee bow that is pictured in the Encyclopedia of North American Bows and Arrows by Jim Hamm and Steve Allely. I have included the page in the pictures so you can see the dimensions. I am surprised that Billy did not mention it in his post, because he has seen it. At any rate, I made the bow from a forty-year old locust fence rail that my friend Curt Ousley and I scavenged from his dad's lumber pile in Manchester, GA. It does not have hand shock, and you can see that it has no handle, decoration, and not much taper. It bends completely--not slightly--through the handle. It is rectangular throughout. It pulls 47 pounds at 26 inches. It broke the original gut string, so I replaced it with B-50. It was fun to make. It has a knot about midway down one of the limbs, but it is sound. You can shoot it right or left-handed or upside down. Just pick it up and shoot!
Dan
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Another picture of the Cherokee bow
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Page from Encycl. of N Am. Bows and Arrows
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If you don't have any Black Locust, they also employed Osage, so an Osage Cherokee bow would be historically sound.
Sean
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YEP!! Your wife is right, but I'm just funnin. I take back all I said, I didn't know you was from the good side of Kansas City ::) My Grandmother (God rest her soul) born and raised in Kansas, Always wanted a MO. address, so when Grandad retired they moved to The city, The MO. side ;D
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If you don't have any Black Locust, they also employed Osage, so an Osage Cherokee bow would be historically sound.
Sean
The relocated Western Cherokee used (and still use) osage, but not traditionally, because osage didn't grow within a thousand miles of here in the Cherokee's original homeland. I guess locust is probably the best wood growing here, so that's what they used when they could get it. They started using osage after most of the tribe was forced by the government to move to Oklahoma in the early-mid 1800's and of course soon started making bows from it when they settled in its natural range. Historical accounts mention hickory and ash also being used when there was no locust to be had.
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...and so would hickory! Pat
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That works out pretty well, I have osage but I have more hickory so last night I started doing a practice run with some hickory. Turns out my hickory ain't as dry as I thought it might be but I got the basic shape and can work on the thickness. Hmmmm, could this be a good excuse to build a hot box?
Sure is nice to be back in a shop so I can make bows again.
Thanks for all your help everyone.
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Heres a good link to a hotbox like the one I made. You can have it done in less than an hr and a half if you;ve got the materials gathered up. Hope it helps. I like the looks of that rectangular bend in the handle style. Danny
http://www.geocities.com/salampsio/hotbox.htm
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Good thread.
Not exactly shure why,but this style bow,is the most pleasin to my eye,fer some reason.Now,i know a lot of folks make this style bow,but how many,actually preferr them,to the handled style bows?Am i alone on this one?
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If you don't have any Black Locust, they also employed Osage, so an Osage Cherokee bow would be historically sound.
Sean
The relocated Western Cherokee used (and still use) osage, but not traditionally, because osage didn't grow within a thousand miles of here in the Cherokee's original homeland. I guess locust is probably the best wood growing here, so that's what they used when they could get it. They started using osage after most of the tribe was forced by the government to move to Oklahoma in the early-mid 1800's and of course soon started making bows from it when they settled in its natural range. Historical accounts mention hickory and ash also being used when there was no locust to be had.
lol, I should have thought of that....
Sean
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Good thread.
Not exactly shure why,but this style bow,is the most pleasin to my eye,fer some reason.Now,i know a lot of folks make this style bow,but how many,actually preferr them,to the handled style bows?Am i alone on this one?
None of my Bows has a Handle to speak of....none are more than 1 1/4 inch thick in the Handle area.....most are right at an inch
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Just because Osage did not grow in NC, that doesn't mean they didn't trade for it.
I just finished a 56" nock to nock hickory Cherokee bow. It also bends all the way through the handle. Have not put it on a scale but I am guessing it is 45-50# at 28". Tried a 2 ply sausage casing gut string, but it broke shortly after it got it to brace height. It was 15 year old casing so I am not surprised. Working on a sinew and dogbane string for it now. It has the diamond nocks and is rectangle in design. I did not detect any hand shock when shooting it.
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them bows just sexy lookin to me
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They used more hickory then BL, I have heard, but when they had been moved out by white men they found osage and made it out of them.
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nclonghunter... very nice sir. love it ;)
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They used more hickory then BL, I have heard,
I believe,you were misinformed on this.
People,should head Hillbillys words on this subject.The man knows of which he speaks.
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man you got that stick bendin purty. Good one.
As far as what the Cherokee made em out of I would not have blamed em if they switched from Hickory to osage. Hickorys good wood but I'll take osage as an all weather bow wood any day. Not near as touchy moisture wise. The couple hickorys I made out here got sluggish when it was damp out. Even with 3 coats of spar urathane still could'nt stop the moisture.
Thats a dandy of a bow no matter what and like I said, you sure got it bending nice. Danny
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Thanks for the positive comments. It's funny but I have made 6-7 useable self bows and want to build more. It is an addiction for sure.
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my great great grandmother was only child to king-chief of echota band CHEROKEE at time of relocation to OK. THIS INFO CAME FROM my dad n has [per my knowledge] never been published. So have respect if u choose to dispute it. When a female became pregnant a cutting from a poision horse apple tree was rooted in the next appropriate season. The father of child planted cutting in loose rock free floodplain soil n according to sex of child purpose of tree was either to be a spirit[shamanistic] bow made from taproot harvested at male childs fourteenth bday or if female then tree was felled at same year n only above ground wood was used to make bows for trade 4to amass dowery for her wedding. In those thirteen yrs the father would selectively prun and train tree to best reward his son or daughter. All the male members of bloodline worked to dig up tap root ever so careful to not harm outer root bark. This made a perfect longbow for male child if no limbs were alowed until over head high. PH apple=osage
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if u have yet to see or feel an osage root, i highly recomend locating young tree near creek bank. Dig into bank from creek until you see roots that are brighter orange than the skin of tangerine. Specimens bigger than ur thumb can be tied into a squre knot n sinched tight n untied for ten days same size spcmn 2 ft long can be crackd like a bullwhip n will break sound barrier. As long as orange root bark is not violated n tap root is properly greased n dried on jig bows dont have to be tiller at all. Just stored n airtight skin sleeve except when being shot. These bows were a sign of the amount of "medicine" in a man , according to his ability to preserve flexibility n shootability. One of prerequisites to apprentice as shamAn-healer was maintining ones spirit bow til a certain age. If unsuccesful n root dried up then the staves from same tree were made into bows for warrior To use or trade. Wahoo is cherokee word for"to kill from above".
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Just happened to stumble onto this,thought i would post it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xdiiwO4UUc