Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Daniel on September 29, 2021, 11:12:47 am
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Hi,
First time poster here, so before anything else I would like to thank all the contributors to this forum for creating such a great resource of valuable information.
I'm not a native speaker obviously, so please pardon my English.
After finishing more or less successfully couple of bend-in-the handle D bows, I recently attempted a Sudbury style design.
The wood is hazel, 66 inches NTN, I want it to be around 40# @28.
After some work on it I let the bow develop a hinge just right in the area of a rather big knot in the right limb fade. It even looks like it took some permanent set in that spot.
Now I'm stuck. Should I carry on with tillering, without touching the hinge spot and hope it somehow works out?
Or should I try to heat-treat the area and get rid of the reflex-deflex around the knot?
Or should I just throw it in the stove and start another one?
The pictures of unbraced and low braced bow:
(https://i.ibb.co/v3gz18N/unbraced-small.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/1svrnZZ/braced.jpg)
Thank you for any advice and suggestions.
Daniel
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I'm pretty new to building bows (comparatively) and I do what you've done quit often (although I am getting better about it). I always try to save it, and usually do. I think of it as the bow teaching me patience. It usually happens when I get in a hurry.
If it's early enough in tillering it will likely be ok, but if it's to close to the desired draw weight you can decide to lessen the desire, or pike (shorten) the bow a bit. I almost always chose piking, but either way works.
I've only tried heat treating a specific area once, and it worked out great, but it was closer to the fades and center of the handle area. It should work, but if I was going to do it on this bow, I'd heat treat the whole thing. It still helps because you have a larger range to work the other areas for weight.
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Welcome to PA! Are you sure it took set there? It looks like the kind of spot that would be tricky to judge unless you could compare it with the original profile before you started to bend it (either a photo, or if you had traced it on paper, like I always forget to do...). If it were mine, I would avoid that spot, get everything else bending evenly with it, and then evaluate the weight. I have had some luck with spot heat treating, but doing it all at once might be better since I think you will want to heat treat hazel anyway.
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Thank you guys for your replies.
Yes Don, I definitely feel I was inpatient working through the belly side of that hump.
TimBo, unfortunately I don't have any pictures of it before bending, but I remember it had slight reflex in that limb, so I suppose it took some set there.
I will follow your advice to continue tillering, I may have few pounds to work with.
Just one more question, do you think I should scrape some wood also from the left (closer to the handle) side of the hinge, or work only on the outside part of that limb?
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I'm not sure I'd call that a hinge.
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It does look kind of thick to be developing a hinge there. Can you see/feel it moving in that spot? If it already had some deflex there, you may be in good shape.
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TimBo, I'm sorry, I meant I remember the limb had slight reflex in it. I corrected it in my post.
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I'm not really seeing a hinge per se.. if you think it is hinging right out of fade, that would require some serious wood removal at that point.. it still looks kinda thick from what I can see.. i think that hump is throwing you off.. I'd continue tillering slowly and keep an eye on it.. even if you think it has taken slight set there..gut
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I don't really see a hinge, either. I agree with gut... continue tillering.... I've probably learned more from bows I've screwed up as opposed to successful builds. Good luck
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I don’t think it’s a hinge either. Them bumps on the back at knots can throw your eye off.
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Ok, seems like I mistook a hump for a hinge :)
I'm going to continue tillering the bow and see how it turns out.
Thank you all for your input!
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On the other hand >:D you do want to watch that spot and proceed with caution - wiggles that near the handle can certainly mess with your tillering eye! I do think you have an excellent start though - please post your progress.
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A drawn picture would really help. Without seeing how itt is moving we can't really tell for sure.
Whne asking for tillering help post one pic of it unbraced, one strung and one drawn picture. :) and ideally one before you bent it!
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Yesterday I was able to work on it and it's bending now 26'' @ 45 lbs. Sorry for the poor photo, but here it is drawn to 26''.
(https://i.ibb.co/v18YBfG/20211002-061042.jpg)
I will work on the tiller some more, but probably won't push it further to 28''. I made the handle a bit too long and even now at 26'' of draw length I think the limbs are working quite hard.
Bownarra, I will follow your suggestion next time, definitely makes sense. For now I have only the picture above.
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Sorry also forgot to mention that the way the bow tapers in width is very important. different tapers need different tillers to stress the wood appropriately.
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It might be the photo, but outer limbs look stiff for to long, especially the right one. It looks like the last third is perfectly straight.
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I agree with Don, and I also think it could bend a bit more near the fades, to me it seems pretty stiff there too. (but I'm a newbie, so take my words with a pinch of salt ;))
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Don, Zugul, I actually made the tips stiff by purpose, I thought that's how it ought to be. I didn't want to end up with a whip tiller. How long should the tips remain stiff?
Tomorrow I will be working on the bow, so I will take some more detailed pictures, as Bowmarra suggested.
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How long your stiff tips are depends on the design and the taper and I'll be the first to admit I have a lot to learn, but all of mine that work well were 4 or 5". I made one 7" because of a knot and it worked ok.
The right side limb looks a quit a bit longer than that. You definitely don't want a third of the limb I don't think.
No matter what the length, you want them the same on both limbs. The picture seems to show the right a lot stiffer, longer.
I'm working on one right now (it's raining too hard to hunt) that has some knot like features that looks like yours. It started frustrating me so I put it down before I ruined it. It'll have to wait for another day when I have a bit more patience.