Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: BowEd on October 18, 2021, 11:30:02 am
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Maybe some of you go by this or at least keep track of it.Supposed to come in the middle of this week.Meteor shower too.
The bucks are beginning to roam pretty well here lately anyway already.
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I usually just go when I can go...but I do have Wednesday evening free. Maybe knowing this will make me a bit extra alert! Probably more important to hear the bucks are roaming, but interesting info anyway.
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Temperature changes I think are the biggest determining factors in timing of movement of some of these animals like coon and deer for instance.The colder the sooner they move before dusk.The hotter the later.There's always exceptions though but generally so.Cats and coyotes are constantly on the move no matter how cold it gets.Especially at night where they have more advantage over rabbits and mice.In fact more so the colder it gets.They are hungrier.
The deer will still bed down to ruminant and conserve energy in the warmest part of the day as they've always done.
In the end it's all about their bodys' BTU's.
As far as scent hanging in the air goes barometric pressure can be a determining factor also.Low pressure it'll want to drift more and high pressure it'll stay lower to the ground.
Temperature can get in the determination also.Ecessive heat will make it rise especially cat hunting in the day time on a trail over rocky terrain.Hot thermals in the sun.Cold will hold it down to a degree.Coon hunting all over these states made me aware of that in all types of weather.Dry,wet,cold,hot,raining,frosty,or snow covered.Windy or calm.Of course for trailing hounds a little moisture is desirable also.That's why I've always loved hound hunting on the snow.
All this acquired info comes from decades of hard trail and treehound hunting year round.
As far as full moon at night determination of movement goes many think full moon coon don't move well.I disagree with that.Same myth about don't hunt with an easterly wind.You just have to have a good enough hound out there.Good layup dogs come in handy.Deer move very well on a full moon too.Even squirrels in the tress moving at night during a full moon.
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Thanks Ed. Some quality information right there.
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It does'nt make sense to have everything perfect before you hunt.It's why they call it hunting.Doing the best you can is what counts.Just being aware is good enough to sharpen your senses to not waste your time.
Too windy or raining too hard can put the kybosh on a lot of my deer hunting.Deer IMO don't like it either.It makes them nervous from the noises.Plus with higher winds the deer can smell a person from a long ways off.Of course your gonna see a big buck during the rut roaming in the feezing rain though.Nothing stops them from their mission.
On my 30 acres of hunting ground that is'nt farmed on it is on 2 parts.The small odd shaped areas with white lines around them are either crp [grass] or woods.An odd shaped piece running along a wash approximately 1/4 of a mile long and approximately 150 yards wide with mature trees and newly planted trees along it with a little patch of woods of a couple of acres on 1 end.That stretch encompasses only 17 acres.I do hunt along the fence line that has trees along it too to fill the balance of the 30 acres.Total of farm with row crop and hay added is approximately 85 acres.What I call an inside 80 with no roads along it.Just a half mile driveway to the yard.The wide angled white line is my driveway to the yard.The hammer shaped squared piece is the wooded buffer strip along the wash which encompasses most of my hunting ground.
Advantage for me here is that I have control over this area,but across the fence I don't which is hunted also.It's taken me years to weed out locals from walking over top my ground through hunting season before I came.I had to call the game warden once on account of an Amish shooting a large buck on my side of the fence line before.Putting up NO HUNTING signs every block along my fence lines to get my point across.
Disadvantage is that a small area like this can get over hunted [spooking deer out] unless it is hunted correctly from many different stands and taking notice of deer activity.
(https://i.imgur.com/4krqCHt.jpg)
To put my hunting season into perspective if I get 4 decent shots at close range through an approximately 60-70 day bow hunting season with 1/3 of those days a no go because of weather or something else and multiple sittings in the stands I'm doing good.Those are the odds.In more detail that's around 1 shot every 12 to 15 sittings in a tree stand or blind.Hundreds of hours,but as hunting can go sometimes the stars can align and success can come sooner without exactly knowing when.That's why they call it hunting.
If it was easy I guess everyone would be doing it.
Companies selling miracle tools for success are grossly over rated to the point of fraudulance without the basics of hunting used,which if used properly will get the job done on it's own.
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I wish I could hunt around weather but with a little one and a job that doesn't have a set quitting time I just go when I can.
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Yes I can understand that fully for the working man with a family at home.I'm retired here so I wait for opportunities.Regardless yet though the deer will educate a person trying.We all have our goals in life hopefully to accomplish.
I just went out today against my instincts on a windy day and sure enough a doe smelled me way down wind from a block away.It does not bode well for me in the future for that area now for a while.Rather chilly with another cold front coming through which might change things again.Had one doe within 8 yards of me before that but almost straight at me and quartered slightly.I refused to take the shot from above.Anything broadside or quartered away is a go.
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Man today in Missouri would be a great day to hunt. Nice cold front came in last night. It's all blustery and cold
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In Western MO the deer were moving like crazy this morning. I had about a 1.5 hour drive to my work site and seen deer the entire trip.
I am hunting tomorrow. Hopefully some are still moving.
Neal
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Deer are moving well here too and are beginning to get hit on the road more often from all the extra movement.After first frost many dead coon along the roads.It's their sign to fatten up for the winter.
The thing I've got to watch here is over hunting on a smaller area.It'll spook them out.Slipping in and out undetected etc.I've gotta keep my does here.The bucks are showing up regularly.It's a hot time.
Wind direction at stand ultra important.If you ever watch smoke come out of a burn barrel when the wind is high it's no wonder deer smell people.It'll come out of there in a swirl dipping and diving changing course at least 45 degrees.Their nose is as good as any of my hounds were and I've had some good ones.Winding coon from well over a couple of hundred yards away.
The wind will die down.Just gotta be patient.
It's gonna be time for the long johns soon to get put on too as it's cooling off a bit more yet.
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That's what I was wonder about, how many deer I never even see because they smelled me from far off and just took another route
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A couple of cold fronts are expected to hit the high country and plains this weekend and early next week. Haven't seen any deer yet, but the corn isn't all in and a lot of grain crops are stallion the field. the mill is running long hours. Hope we get some action with the rut!
Hawkdancer
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The deer that smelled me was on the move from it's bed in the bottom slew grass.I'm sure of that.I know where they come from being bedded down.My mistake going out on such a windy day.The scent will carry a long long ways.Just a matter of going out with the wind layed down and from the right way.There is a good chance yet.Just smelling me around here is'nt quite as alarming to move completely out of the area for good as seeing me is on top of it.She did'nt do that.Movement route may change though for a bit.Many does' out there that did'nt smell me either and I bet in your situation also.If they smell you they'll let you know.
Deer seem to run on a system that makes them 90% to a nervous break down 24 hours a day.Can't blame them since everything is after them.They smell alarming things to them quite often since they take the responsibility of looking out for their fawns,but yea man is a major red flag to them.They reeducate seasoned hunters all the time.
A couple of my stands are just too close together,but they are on their travel routes.Patience and time will win out in the long run.I try to get shooting lanes from different directions for different ways the wind wlll come from.
The corn will be out soon and seeing them flat out in the open will become more evident.Larger groups will show themselves.I've seen as many as close to 30 or more in the past.There will be plenty of lost ears on the ground I'm sure for them to browse on.My friend who farms my corn lets me know what's going on while combining too.I used to see the numbers of deer myself while coon hunting and know they are out there.
Too windy again this morning.Maybe this evening if the wind lays down.Usually does except in the winter when it can come up at midnight or anytime.Front will have come through by then.Wind will be from the east and very light by then hopefully.With that though some light rain is coming.East wind is always a wet direction most times.
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I hunt on public land but no one really hunts around here except a few people on private land so I pretty much for the most part have the whole forest to myself as far as hunters go... but the deer population is scarce and I have yet to actually see one while I'm sitting next to the "prime" deer trails. If I see a deer it's when I'm hiking into my hunting spot and they always see me first :( my odds are not great I have a trail camera on my best trail and see a deer maybe every few days on it, usually around 2:00 in the middle of the day, strange? I can usually only get out two times a week for an afternoon hunt, so my odds a pretty low of getting a shot the whole season. I guess I can hope to get lucky
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Fox I'd consider hunting near where you bump deer on your way in.
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Well there’s no one spot, it’s about 3/4 mile hike in and I have bumped deer the whole way in
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Is there only one direction to enter this pubilc hunting ground from?
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The first week of hunting here I seen deer everyday I got out. I missed one, twice the first day. I missed a shot not paying attention a few days later. The last two days I haven't seen a thing.
I've seen two nice size buck within rifle range. I had a spike just out of bow range. I tried calling him back. He flirted with me for a moment or two then walked away
The weather has turned colder the last couple of days so I thought they would be moving better, but what do I know. They constantly prove me wrong
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Sounds like your bow was quiet enough to get a second shot.Good luck ITF.
I hav'nt missed yet but only taken 1 shot.Was within 8 yards of 2 other does on 2 seperate occasions but no shot IMO was there.No harm no foul when you let them go unaware of your presence.
Deer soon get wise to a place that is overhunted and it does'nt take very many times.
Generalzations about deer are usually debunked.Figure on the unexpected is the best policy.
Raining and colder here today on my hunting area.This will really kick the rut into high gear.Time for the long underwear!!!!!
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Fox, maybe you need to still hunt on the way in. It would take quite a while for 3/4 of a mile, but maybe just stand behind or up against a tree without moving for 10 minutes or more, then quietly move in a short distance and do that again. Try to see deer moving before they see you. Of course, then you have to figure out how to get closer and shoot...not easy, but you would have a better chance that hiking in and bumping them. Are you going in the evening?
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Fox, maybe you need to still hunt on the way in. It would take quite a while for 3/4 of a mile, but maybe just stand behind or up against a tree without moving for 10 minutes or more, then quietly move in a short distance and do that again. Try to see deer moving before they see you. Of course, then you have to figure out how to get closer and shoot...not easy, but you would have a better chance that hiking in and bumping them. Are you going in the evening?
This is how I learned to hunt. It's a pretty good challenge with a primitive bow, but my failures this year so far are my own doing and season is still young.
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I’ve done that a little bit timbo, when I have enough time, but I always see deer on the game camera around 2 so I want to be at my spot by then, and I usually don’t get out earlier then 1… I need to get a few days where I can be out at dawn and then still hunt up there maybe ? That could be good
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Fox don't get so focused on one spot. Just because you get a picture of a deer every few days doesn't mean anything. If you are bumping deer evey time you hike in I'd say hunting your way in is def worth a shot vs sitting and waiting. My first year hunting I was on the ground and did a lot of walking. Saw a ton of deer that way and even saw some before they saw me. I wasnt successful on closing the deal but there were a few times the deer were on the regular hiking path and if I was a better hunter I could have gotten a shot.
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Deer don't usually go far when you jump them. Often time getting them moving means you can run into them again. Or better yet, they run into you, but you need to learn their patterns.
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This type hunting is what I call scouting.Learning their haunts and movement patterns.I do that before I actually sit hunt and get in there plenty early before they start moving.I don't use cameras either.It takes a lot of time prior to actually hunting weeks later letting things to settle down before actually hunting the area.
Rifle hunting you can get away with that shooting at a longer distance.Jumping them and following them is'nt very successful.This close up hunting most times you can't.You may get lucky though.They are very smart and deserve credit for it.Eventually all they'll do is pattern you and their pretty good at doing that.It's a big world out there for them and they can go other places.We are in their backyard.
Another thing the weather will make them move different too.Lots of variables to this primtive hunting.Every year is a little different but generally the same if you hunt the same area year after year.
The whole reason to embrace this primitive hunting is to improve a person's hunting skills.Knowing your quarry and let them make the mistake.
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I’ve done that a little bit timbo, when I have enough time, but I always see deer on the game camera around 2 so I want to be at my spot by then, and I usually don’t get out earlier then 1… I need to get a few days where I can be out at dawn and then still hunt up there maybe ? That could be good
Sounds like to me your walking right through their bedding area at that time of day.That's why I asked is there another direction you can walk into this public hunting ground.
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I don't mean to highjack your thread! ... thanks for this good info guys. today I was out hunting and I ran into some deer walking in again! its really windy out and had just rained so I was being very quiet. I wasn't paying close enough attention I would have probably had a great shot opportunity, sadly they saw me before I saw them they were about 30 yards away coming my way.. darn!! oh well... I followed them a little bit and they led me to a new spot which had some scrapes and a good trail so I sat there that afternoon. I ended up walking all over that area though and walked right next to a bed there, will my scent being there make them not go there anymore? should I try to hunt that spot again? the deer all bed down on the ridges so I try to stay away from there, I know where a lot of beds are but one I find them I wonder if they'll never bed there again?
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I'd say it's more likely continuous intrusion chases deer off but where I'm at deer bed in different areas often. So if you blew them out it's not like the would leave town anyway, just maybe bed in a different spot for a little bit. The creator of lone wolf stands purposely tries to bump deer out of beds about a week before opener so he knows exactly where they will be come opening day.
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Fox,
an older deer may bounce out of there. I scrapped my wooden nocks in a back quiver against a cliff years ago, and the big old bruiser I did not release on earlier got up at abut 75yds, and I did not see him again. Lion got him, I figure.
BowEd, yep. I think I learned each sentence in this quote, one day at a time, one deer at 35 yards at a time, one sit after sit at a time. Watched an old buck I should have drawn a few weeks prior, he went on to nudge other younger bucks with his nose, as he caught on to a molecule or so of me. He got up, all nonchalant and proceeded to eat along a ridge. I had Rhodesian crawled to about 100 yards or so. I looked as he moved his nostrils, catching the back swirl of me, and teaching the others. I never saw him again until Idiot ( my nom de guerre) scrapped douglas fir against an Az cliff. "Can't cure stupid" :fp
All depends, I reckon. This type hunting is what I call scouting.Learning their haunts and movement patterns.I do that before I actually sit hunt and get in there plenty early before they start moving.I don't use cameras either.It takes a lot of time prior to actually hunting weeks later letting things to settle down before actually hunting the area.
Rifle hunting you can get away with that shooting at a longer distance.Jumping them and following them is'nt very successful.This close up hunting most times you can't.You may get lucky though.They are very smart and deserve credit for it.Eventually all they'll do is pattern you and their pretty good at doing that.It's a big world out there for them and they can go other places.We are in their backyard.
Another thing the weather will make them move different too.Lots of variables to this primtive hunting.Every year is a little different but generally the same if you hunt the same area year after year.
The whole reason to embrace this primitive hunting is to improve a person's hunting skills.Knowing your quarry and let them make the mistake.
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I don't mean to highjack your thread! ... thanks for this good info guys. today I was out hunting and I ran into some deer walking in again! its really windy out and had just rained so I was being very quiet. I wasn't paying close enough attention I would have probably had a great shot opportunity, sadly they saw me before I saw them they were about 30 yards away coming my way.. darn!! oh well... I followed them a little bit and they led me to a new spot which had some scrapes and a good trail so I sat there that afternoon. I ended up walking all over that area though and walked right next to a bed there, will my scent being there make them not go there anymore? should I try to hunt that spot again? the deer all bed down on the ridges so I try to stay away from there, I know where a lot of beds are but one I find them I wonder if they'll never bed there again?
No problem Fox.You are'nt at all.We're just relating experiences and tactics on getting close to these deer.It's a tough go sometimes with this primitive gear I'm talking about.If it was easy everyone would be doing it.That's why so few are trying it.
Yesterday was just too windy here for me no matter what stand I went into.Wind was swirling around in the hollers.The deer are there,but they'll smell me sure as the world.I like to get within 20 yards yet.I keep my hunting clothes in a barrel with sage or outside.Take showers/apply scent killer etc. too.
They will return in time.They are'nt gone for good.It's there home territory.A does' range really is'nt that big but bucks will roam wider of course.Especially later when what I call traveler bucks leave their area and come into new areas looking for unbred does.
You can always tell if you go into a fresh new area on a larger piece or completely new area.Deer are more relaxed and shots come a lot easier.My problem is I only hunt my 30 acres and noone is hunting on the other side of the fence to spook them into my area.I could try to get permission to hunt the neighbors ground but most all that is spoken for already for later with a rifle or shotgun coming up.Deer hunting is a big money making deal in my area.Lots of outfitters looking to make a buck or two.Currently no outfitters are on the other side of the fence this year,but out of state wisconsin hunters will be here for late muzzle loader season this year.They've shot all the big bucks in their state and have come over here thinking it'll be easier and bigger deer.
It costs them hundreds of dollars though.Personally I can't make any sense of it.
We have a bow shut down here while shotgun season is on from december 6th to december 20th.That's when they spook all the deer back my into my area.Every state can be different.Then open for bow again to january 10th.Quite a bit of time yet though till december 6th.
The shotgun season here is when things can get crazy.Sometimes sounding like WW III with so many shots going off.They drive hunt many times with many individuals posting sitters to ambush what their driving.They shoot at deer running with their automatics and pumps till they run out of shells.I've seen a number of deer with their wounded [never found by them] or their lower 6" of leg dangling still alive.
Knowing who's hunting where in these public areas is sketchy at times.They can spook them towards you or ruin your hunt.
Weather is holding up temperature wise.Frost most mornings though.I'll end up in the blind when it gets too darn cold.Forecast is for rain the next 2 days.
There's good fresh scrapes all along and in this area and I should get at least a couple more bow shots yet.I've gotten 1 doe so far with my self bow.2 more bow tags to fill though.I have a late season muzzle loader tag [antlerless] that's valid december 20th to january 10th for a back up.I'd like to get at least 200 pounds of deer meat.The price of beef has sky rocketed.
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Deer drives scare me I want no part of that. Poor Wisconsin has areas with cwd rates as high as 50% sooner or later there won't be any deer left up there
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The farming families do this deer driving routine most times on land they own.They look at it as getting rid of deer that eat their crops.I believe they do eat most of them though.
Wisconsins' hunting laws let rifle hunters hunt through the rut.They kill all the big bucks.CWD is very prevelant in their state too.It's here in Iowa too but not as much.
I have a DNR biologist come over [no cost to me] to extract the gland from the base of the skull of every deer I shoot.I butcher the deer myself.Put it in freezer and wait for the results on line that I can access myself.Has'nt been a positive result from any of my deer here.
He's a nice fella and is interesting to talk to.He's fascinated by my self bow and self arrow hunt routine.He likes to turkey hunt with a shotgun himself.He's far too busy to deer hunt getting results from deer that are shot and road killed deer.Think they've got 2 biologists working this area testing at the moment.Another lady that I see now and then at quick stop gas stations before.They go to locker plants to test the deer brought in there too.
The reason I'm told that there is a shut down for bow season for shot gun season here in iowa is so that farmers can hunt during shot gun season after harvest.It's an old old law.Nothing to do with saving big bucks with no shot gun or rifle season though the bow season.
It's all about the money with the state.They claim it's their deer and we take care of them and get the privilege to hunt them from them.Does that make sense?????I guess there has to be some sort of management done but it could be in a different way too.We are a nation of laws.
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Yeah Ed in Missouri our rifle season is during the rut too. You can use a bow during rifle season here but you have to wear orange and use a rifle tag. MDC will test any of our deer but you have to bring them to certain places to get them to take out the samples, they don't come to us. Now if you're in a CWD management zone every year opening weekend of rifle season, every deer killed in that county those two days you are required to check them in at CWD stations. So we get a ton of deer tested every year.
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It's still an individual choice here to test or not.Many don't.No valid scientific data shows it's dangerous eating the meat of an infected deer.
I still just test mine anyway.
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Yeah I've heard that too, no deer to human transmission yet. Remember in Europe mad cow only caught on in people because they were actually eating the brains. I'm more worried about it spreading through the deer populations.
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It's still a chess game here the way I see it hunting these deer.They make a move I make a move.
This nocturnal behavior is'nt just with bucks either.They all will do it.
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This is the first year I'm in a DMA we had a CWD case a county over I think, so it just is getting here... my bow season runs from October to January 1st and theres muzzleloader and rifle for a few different weeks during that. I can hunt during rifle and muzzleloader with a bow, although I usually do pick up a rifle for 2 weeks during that season so I can get something. I haven't taken a deer yet with the bow, fingers crossed it will happen this season. I've already gotten closer to it then last year and I've still got a few months so we'll see!
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The best of luck to you then.Your right there is plenty of time as long as the weather holds up.
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Today I took my two dogs out for a hike in our state park. We saw a very large buck just standing in plain sight (but close to the edge of the woods) by the park road. When we parked, a doe ran by with a smaller buck in hot pursuit. This was around noon, overcast and a bit drizzly. I think things are getting going in north Missouri! Now I just need to get out there. I am a bit more motivated after seeing all those deer (plus another doe while driving out), but still short on available time. :(
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Yep.Even though I was'nt in the stand yesterday because it was raining steady here I saw a nice older buck at the edge of my corn field too.Seen him before earlier from one of my stands late into the low light of the day out of range pushing a doe into the corn field.I know where his does are.Their on the neighbors ground.I'll have to try to get a shot at him.We've gotten over 5" of rain here in the last 2 days and it's not done yet.That's ok.The land needs it here.
Everybody has their memorable experiences while hunting and the most deer under my stand this time of year while hunting was 7 deer.All within 20 yards horseing around.4 bucks [all 1.5 year old] and 3 does.One of the does was in estrus for sure.I never did get a shot though.The more deer the more eyes.
The bucks around here will be standing along the edge of the roads at all hours of the day and night.Reason why many deer here are hit by cars and trucks.Not good for the insurance companies....ha ha.If you have comprehensive coverage for sure.
I guess I've been lucky through the years not hitting deer.Some people hit them regularly.
As a kid I was always a road ditch hunter.Still am but not to much of a degree any more.I'm always looking in the ditch with my peripheral vision looking for something out of place.The reflection of an eye in the light at night.Old habits are hard to break.The lighting on my trucks is always very good too.
Guess what I'm saying is it has to always be in mind while driving.At least in this country I live in.Second nature so to speak.
Although in some states the thick cover can be right up to the edge of the shoulder of the road.Common sense prevails then knowing the area and the time of year to just not drive as fast if it's sketchy.Respecting the signs for deer crossing area is advised too.
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Buck seem to be hanging in groups still here. I haven't seen anything to indicate the rut being on yet. Even scrapes seem somewhat unattended.
I'm on vacation after today. I hope the weather holds.
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Good time for a vacation.Give em time they'll figure it out.
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About this CWD......It's generally a belief or consenus by biologists that it's the older mature bucks that spread this disease because of their wider ranging nature.
I've seen big dead bucks here before usually early fall,but figure they died from EHD,or blue tongue.They die from that within a few weeks after being bit by a fly in the dry years.CWD can take a lot longer up to 3 years.Painful looking process to see I guess.