Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Horn Bows => Topic started by: superdav95 on December 31, 2021, 07:20:25 pm
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So it’s been busy and I haven’t posted anything in a bit. I had been working on this quick and dirty test horn bow. I was pleasantly surprised at how well it turned out despite my doubts it would work all that well. I bought couple sets of water Buffalo horn strips from Ed (bowed) little while ago and fixed on making a test bow using couple strips on one of my 5 piece Mongolian style bows. Not my design for sure but some tweaks of my own but who’s to say it hasn’t been already done too. We shall see. So I used bamboo as my core (moso). I heat treated this bamboo as well which I believe helped in the end. I used hhb (iron wood) for the syahs and angle lammed with more horn for looks and used hickory for the handle. I v notched the syahs into the bamboo at the limb ends as can be seen from the pics. Let me know what you think so far. It’s not completely done yet but shootable and tillered up. Not sure on a stain for the boo yet but think something dark. I did not do backing or sinew on this one. Wanted to test the idea of unbacked boo horn bow for kicks. So far it shoots like a rocket. Don’t mind the green tape! Lol No chrono yet and haven’t shoot at full draw yet either. it’s around 45-50 lbs from what I estimate.
Cheers
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I’ll post few more pics tomorrow and try and get some measurements posted here too. Thanks again bowEd for the horn! I went little narrower on the limbs on this one as the horn added a lot of weight so it helped in reducing weight down. I’ll weight the bow too tomorrow.
Like I said this is just a test bow and only used ea 40 epoxy and will eventually try one with hide glue or fish glue maybe. It was nice to cut my teeth on working with horn on this one before deep diving on full fledged horn bow. I will try one eventually one day.
Cheers
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Your welcome.You went right to work there and got a close to finished bow without sinew.Looks great and bet it draws sweet.Your right the whole process with sinew takes a lot longer time.It's matter of knowing the thickness & width of each material for a final template.The more you make the more insight you get knowing where to start at for draw weight with thickness/width and length.
Using denser materials as a core is a good idea too.
Estimating draw weight on horn takes a few bows to get in the ball park.Getting Adam Karpowitzes book on building turkish horn bows would help later if you have a notion going that route.It's a gradual bow building process 1 bow after another.I posted a build-a-long on the thickness to draw weight guide using gemsbok horn in the early days stated in reply no.28.http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,42181.msg564713.html#msg564713
To me it's really interesting densitizing the bellys on these bows whether its' with heat or a denser material.
Usually the horn is glued over the V notch of the siyahs but it should hold up ok.Sinew wrapping is an option there too.
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Thanks bowed Funny story on the v notch actually. I had originally built this bow little longer and glued the syahs on the top of the bamboo and the secured with cord by wrapping tight. I guess I flattened little too much and weekened the tip and it snapped. So I had to shorten it and v notch the boo with the horn lammed into the syahs. It ended up looking cool anyway and it seems to be holding up. Should I wrap them you think???
Cheers
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very good job Dave! looks crafted perfectly! would like to see the tiller ;)
You could still turn it into a full hornbow by adding some sinew at this point. But maybe better start from new and glueup horn an boo with a ton of reflex before sinewing - that's what will make the difference in performace to a "normal" bow!
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Thanks bowed Funny story on the v notch actually. I had originally built this bow little longer and glued the syahs on the top of the bamboo and the secured with cord by wrapping tight. I guess I flattened little too much and weekened the tip and it snapped. So I had to shorten it and v notch the boo with the horn lammed into the syahs. It ended up looking cool anyway and it seems to be holding up. Should I wrap them you think???
Cheers
I've actually never done it that way but have seen others do it without wrapping.I imagine they held up.No follow up was ever posted on those though.
Yours was a 5 piece correct?Mine were usually all 1 piece.
Looks like there's plenty of thickness there at that V splice and one thing I do know about EA 40 is that it is a very good glue in those situations of shock after release etc.It should hold up as that glue is impervious to environmental conditions and it's bonding power if applied to their directions holds up to it's claims.
It does make the bow look a little cleaner that way without the wrappings.
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very good job Dave! looks crafted perfectly! would like to see the tiller ;)
You could still turn it into a full hornbow by adding some sinew at this point. But maybe better start from new and glueup horn an boo with a ton of reflex before sinewing - that's what will make the difference in performace to a "normal" bow!
Thanks Simk! I appreciate that. I may just leave this one unbacked and fiddle with it a bit more and finish it up. It draws nicely and shoots very good for what it is really. After unstringing it only takes about 10mins to fully creep back to its orig resting limb straightness shape. I think the next one I will do will be lammed with horn over top the v notch properly and gather enough sinew by then. I’ve got almost enough back strap to do one side but will have to source more to do entire bow. I’ll make the syahs little longer next time as well. Ed sent me some nice pieces of horn! I’ll try and get a stain and sealer done on it this week and do some full draw pics and chrono shots. I’m gonna weight the bow too. It seems very light in the hand compared to my other bamboo Mongolian style bows.
Cheers
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what an interesting bow :)
Glad it worked out for you.
Personally I'd wrap the splices.
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what an interesting bow :)
Glad it worked out for you.
Personally I'd wrap the splices.
Thanks Bownarra. I had fun with it to learn a bit with horn. Motivation for the real thing too. Lol. I’m gonna take your suggestion too and wrap the splices. As cool of a look it is with the contrasting materials I’d feel safer with them wrapped for sure. It’s only about 48-50 lbs at 28” and I’m probably over thinking it but better safe then sorry. My gut was telling me to wrap them anyway.
Cheers
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Btw. All. I did purchase a digital copy of Adams Karpowitz book and found myself up to 2am reading it and skimming through it! Wow awesome resource. I’ll be glad I have it when I brave my next one.
Cheers
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What's a siyah?
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What's a siyah?
[/quoteIt is a name that is used for the stiff non-bending part of the limb.
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It’s been cold here! Haven’t had chance to give this bow a real test yet but did manage to put a couple coats of epifanes spar finish on and it’s dry now. I’m gonna redo the finish though I hate it. Well I don’t hate it but I don’t like it either! I’ve seen some nice sunburst type finish’s that I’d like to try on this one using feibings leather dye. I took some measurements of the bow. Ntn- 52.5”. Ttt-53.5”. Limbs at widest part 1.5” tapering starts about half way out to the tips which are 1/2” wide. The brace height at mid limb is about 6.5”. Siyahs approx 6.5” long x 1” wide x just over 3/16” thick at the tips. I haven’t wrapped the splices yet as I’m wanting to redo the stain. I did some more shooting and got a couple reading on my chrono before battery died. Readings ranged from 168-174 FPS with a 360 grain arrow. My best guess at this point is that I’m drawing to around 22-23” at the most. If I figure roughly losing 2-3lbs per inch of draw reduction and the bow tillered out to approx 48lbs at 28” then I estimate I was shooting at a draw weight around 35-38lbs which isn’t bad I’d say. I’m optimistic that once I get the stain done and siyahs wrapped and get out to full draw I’ll see some encouraging numbers. Anyways. Here are some pics.
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Some more pics…
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It's been below 0 F. here too.So much for global warming again in this area anyway.
Dean Torges method and style of a sunburst pattern has been a go to by many.Black/red/tan/yellow fadings to and fro.Starting with lightest color overall.Then the next darkest overall fading at stopping point.Then the next darkest fading overall at stopping point and so on.http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,60623.0.html
Should look very nice.
You don't want to change your mind then though....ha ha.It ought to make a stunning looking bow.
After getting those wraps on and shooting it in to your full draw of course.
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It's been below 0 F. here too.So much for global warming again in this area anyway.
Dean Torges method and style of a sunburst pattern has been a go to by many.Black/red/tan/yellow fadings to and fro.Starting with lightest color overall.Then the next darkest overall fading at stopping point.Then the next darkest fading overall at stopping point and so on.http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,60623.0.html
Should look very nice.
You don't want to change your mind then though....ha ha.It ought to make a stunning looking bow.
After getting those wraps on and shooting it in to your full draw of course.
Awesome. Thanks for this info bowEd! This will come in handy
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So just a couple updates on this little bow. I finally got my dyes in and played around with some colours till I got what was aiming For. I took your advise on method Ed. Think it turned out pretty good for first one. Still plan on wrapping the tip splices yet but few more coats of tru oil and let it dry up good. Here’s some progress pics.
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Couple more pics…
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One more pic…
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Finished up this bow and got it out to full draw. It’s not bad but not quite as fast as I hoped. I put the wraps on the splices and wrapped a piece of black leather for the handle. I stuck on a little beaver tail arrow pass.
Here are some stats.
Brace 6.5”. 0 lbs
7.5” - 7.4 lbs
8.5” - 11.12
9.5”- 14.40
10.5- 17.58
11.5- 20.60
12.5- 22.06
13.5- 25.20
14.5-27.54
15.5-30.00
16.5-32.60
17.5-34.60
18.5-37.06
19.5-39.26
20.5-41.42
21.5-43.72
22.5-45.76
23.5-47.22
24.5-49.06
25.5-50.74
26.5-52.21
27.5-53.10
28.00-54.00
I drew out to 28” when shooting today but could never get a reading for some reason! I’ll try again when not so cold out maybe. At 26.5” draw I did get a reading 174fps at 8.5gpp. Not too bad I guess but expected better.
A few more pics finished
Thanks for looking.
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Couple more pics…
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Very nice fading of colors and overall look on your bow.That's hard to do correctly.
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Thankyou sir! And thanks again for the horn.
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What is the thickness of the limb at the end ? I am trying to reproduce that model. But and hint about the thickness would help me alot!
Beautiful bows!
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What is the thickness of the limb at the end ? I am trying to reproduce that model. But and hint about the thickness would help me alot!
Beautiful bows!
Thankyou. It was a fun build. Sorry for the delay. I just saw this.
The measurements of the limbs as best as I can give.
Tip thickness. Prior to glue up was approx .300”
After glue up of horn and final tillering by scraping horn belly. Approx .400”
Width at widest point at base of limb is 1.7” which tapers slightly out to 3/4 way up the limb to about 1.6”. Then to the base of the syahs is 1/2” wide.
Thickness at base of the limbs near handle including the horn lam approx .520”.
Hope this helps out. Any other questions just ask or send me a pm.
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That is spectacular! I'm in awe...
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That is spectacular! I'm in awe...
Thanks buckskinner!
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Did a bunch of shooting with this bow today and it’s snappy. Shoots heavy arrows well. Dead in the hand and a delight to shoot. Only drew out to 28” which is fine. It has a 5 curve side profile. Side profile pic of this little bow. Thanks for looking.
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Great looking finish in every way of your bow.An eye catcher.I'd call it a success.
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Beautiful work. Really like the color fade cleanliness and full draw.
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Thanks fellas. It was a fun build.
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Hi here my bow ... 54 inch... What should be the lenth of the string?
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Its difficult to tell you exactly the length you need. I do t see string grooves cut yet so measure the nock to nock length once you cut in your string grooves. Have you tillered the bow yet? If you have then use you tillering string to get better idea for more accurate measurement of the length of your bow string. A basic rule of thumb would be the nock to nock length minus 4”. Before doing that though I would use a tillering string to get you limbs balanced up and bending the same. After that I would make a string or order one from online that puts you around 6.5” brace height or just under 7”. This will give you less wrist slap when shooting the bow. Looking forward to seeing it strung up! Use larger loops so that the string loops straddle the siyahs or levers. I make mine so that the heels where the siyahs meet the limbs are about 1/2” gap from the string if that makes sense. If you do t then a string bridge may be an option too. Best of luck. Keep it up
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I made my fist one of maple only... and my second of bamboo floor! (The bamboo i start it yesterday night lol (f) )Thank you for all the picture i draw mine about what you have post here!
Thank again!
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Looks great. Let’s see some full draw pics. What’s your brace height? It looks a tiny bit shallow. Hard to tell but could brace little more. Are you using the heel of the siyah as a string bridge? Lookin forward to seeing more. Congrats
Cheers.
Dave
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love superdav95 bows.. absolutely stunning.. gut
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Thanks gut!