Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: BowEd on April 12, 2022, 02:55:06 pm

Title: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on April 12, 2022, 02:55:06 pm
I know it's been shown before but as time goes on those threads drift away and a new bunch of bowyers want to make shoot shafts.These are just cut dogwoods.I'm very paticular about what I cut so as to reduce the work in making them.
I'm always looking for shoots that'll make at least 45 to 50 pound spine.Cutting these in the spring here.
I for sure though don't want to harvest under spined shafts.
I like to bundle them in groups of 7.Six around one.
I take a 7/16" wrench with me onto the lower part of the shaft with at least 3' of a good tapered shaft above it to use with no abrupt kinks or damaged areas above it.I cut these to 39".My final length will be 30" arrows so I have some wiggle room.
Sand all the nodes even with the rest of the shaft.Straighten and wrap with a 10' length of nylon bale twine.Adjust them to be all in a straight line after wrapping them with the overall look to being fairly straight shoots.
Every week now for the next 4 weeks once or even twice a week I'll unwrap them and straighten them.I usually see after 2 to 3 weeks of this after unwrapping the tendency of the shafts to stay straightened a lot better as they dry.By the end of the fourth week they are ready to stay wrapped for the final drying time of at least 3 months.Better 6 months to a year.
I'll let them dry down wrapped very tightly with rubber bands or zip ties for final drying.Any straighening after they dry should be done with dry heat.I use a mantel lantern.
Hopefully later this fall or even next spring I'll make these into arrow shafts and remove the bark and heat straighten any minor areas.
I harvested these with the intention of them coming right at about the right spine already with the bark on.The shaft itself and the bark will shrink some.I expect to finalize a lot of these with a camoflauged look to them leaving some cambium on them.The bark itself has 0 value for spine so removing it does'nt weaken the shaft.It does reduce the mass weight though.It usually starts cracking as you shoot them.The paradoxing of the shaft does that.
(https://i.imgur.com/BqaPpoQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/U0Kjnyu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eYeMvjj.jpg)



Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on April 14, 2022, 10:15:12 am
Went to a Dollar general store and bought 80 zip ties for $4.00.It's been a couple of days now.I unwrapped shafts.Restraightened the best I could and zip tied them together again.I'll let them dry a few days again.
Their starting to look pretty straight already even after a week of drying.
(https://i.imgur.com/LYuX2KC.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CeZdbvM.jpg)
I use this home made tool to help me take any stubborn kinks or bends out while they are bendable yet.
(https://i.imgur.com/Vxm6HpQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/i1rdmH3.jpg)
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: Buckskinner on April 14, 2022, 11:01:52 am
Very helpful, thanks.  I'm going to copy that straightening tool!
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on April 14, 2022, 12:46:58 pm
Just drill about a 3/8" hole at an angle.Then open it up off to the side.Tool is about 1.25" in diameter.
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: Fox on April 15, 2022, 11:36:54 am
Thanks for this thread bow Ed! Iím working on getting enough shafts together so I donít have to buy arrows this fall
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: Pat B on April 15, 2022, 02:54:50 pm
Great info, ED. Thanks for posting it.   :OK
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on April 15, 2022, 05:51:09 pm
Thanks for this thread bow Ed! Iím working on getting enough shafts together so I donít have to buy arrows this fall
I'm with ya on that way of thinking.
Great info, ED. Thanks for posting it.   :OK
You bet.
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on April 20, 2022, 03:43:46 pm
Here's an example of the type of bushes I harvest my dogwood shoots from.Not the best picture.I guess you could call these red twig dogwood but I believe there are other types of dogwoods growing around here.The gray and the flowering dogwood also.It grows wild in the ditches around here.
From one like this I might get 1 shoot that suits what I want.
(https://i.imgur.com/NlQzT17.jpg)
Then it's on to look at other clumps of dogwoods somewhere else to accumulate enough of them.
I went and put together another group of seven to straighten and dry.

I had a new spare picture of the deer around here this spring on the camera too.There actually is around a dozen there but only a half dozen visible in the picture.There is some remnants of red clover where they are now.They love that early stuff.Some fawns will be dropped soon.Within a month.It's a quiet time of year for these deer.
(https://i.imgur.com/qFMUaim.jpg)
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on April 23, 2022, 10:21:43 am
These two 7 shaft bundles are now very straight after around 2 weeks of straightening.I will leave them to dry down now for around 6 months or so.I like to leave a little tab of the zip tie available to grab yet to tighten with the pliers as the weeks go on here.They will shrink in diameter and I want the ties to stay very tight on them as they cure.You can see a little how the bark is beginning to shrivel and shrink already.
(https://i.imgur.com/ATZ3WHW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/joDkWXo.jpg)
It will not take much heat correction at all after they are cured to get end to end perfectly straight shoot shafts now.Untill then.....
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on April 23, 2022, 11:35:12 am
An example of how straight these shafts will be before minor heat corrections.These have been curing for almost a year.
(https://i.imgur.com/JFwXpZf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4OIzFNd.jpg)
The bark will be removed.I use my pocket knife or a sanding block.Minor heat corections done.Then spined.Usually over spined at this stage.Then reduced to the spine I require.
(https://i.imgur.com/6xxLi17.jpg)
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: Pat B on April 23, 2022, 12:37:24 pm
Ed, while gathering stuff to take to the Classic I found a bundle of red osier shoots you had sent me. They were marked 2018 so they should be just about ready to make some fine arrows.  :OK  I'll work on them this summer and post pics of the progress as I go along.
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on April 23, 2022, 07:12:09 pm
That must have been through a trade for hill cane I imagine.I'll bet as they are for you they will be spined at 70 to 80 pounds.You'll need to reduce them some.
I'm sure they are cured by now.They should make slightly heavier shafts than your hill cane.About like your sourwood.
Have fun at the classic there.
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: wooddamon1 on April 26, 2022, 09:10:01 pm
Great information, I have some stuff growing around here I'm gonna try.
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: backtowood B2W on May 05, 2022, 03:05:57 pm
Thats really great info! thanks for putting together...
I wasnīt so sucesful with mine - live in climate with big humidity changes. so most look horrible after some time.
Did some grooving and heat treating on hazel shafts they are still straight. Have to try with dogwood too.
I also debark the shoots, except the ends, after 3 weeks or so, find it easier and shortens drying time.
Nice work on your arrows ed!
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: JW_Halverson on May 05, 2022, 04:43:36 pm
THIS is the stuff that makes this forum so important. Great education!
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on May 06, 2022, 06:18:52 am
I'd like to see others have the success I've gotten with these type shafts.
It's primitive archery remember.I'm satisfied with 4" groups at 20 yards.I don't need to have 1" groups.That could be operator error on my part also not the shafts.
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: JW_Halverson on May 06, 2022, 10:24:15 pm
I'd like to see others have the success I've gotten with these type shafts.
It's primitive archery remember.I'm satisfied with 4" groups at 20 yards.I don't need to have 1" groups.That could be operator error on my part also not the shafts.

The kill zone on a deer at 20 yards is a lot more than a 4 inch group!!!
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: Deerhunter21 on May 07, 2022, 02:14:37 am
This is a lot of good info Ed!  i agree with JW, stuff like this has helped me out a lot!
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on May 07, 2022, 03:40:31 am
Yes I agree broadside kill zones on deer are a lot larger than 4" from the ground.When shooting from a stand the angles and windows do become smaller.
Why most of my shots are made under 15 yards.
If I talk further I suppose this topic should go to the shooting and hunting thread.Of which sometime I'll express my opinion why primitive hunting makes you a better hunter overall.

If this shoot straightening can help someone that's good enough for me.There's a lot of other types of shoot shafts out there too.
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: Juan Ant. Espinosa on May 08, 2022, 10:29:39 pm
They are very, very straight. Thank you for showing your method.
How heavy, more or less is one of these shafts at 30"?.
I guess they are all from Cornus sp genre, but do you know the actual species?.
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on May 09, 2022, 07:59:09 am
At 30" more or less they will average around 390 to 425 grains bare bones @ 50# spine.Or 13 to 14 grains per inch.
Red twig/rough leafed/or gray dogwoods as they have been called here weigh out pretty close to the same.Probably [cornus sericea].
I've read of a pacific dogwood but that does'nt grow in my area.
There are many different kinds manipulated by humans for sale for decorative landscape reasons.I imagine they would do fine also.I deal with the native wild kind.The red bark on them is a dead giveaway.
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: Allyn T on May 09, 2022, 08:03:52 am
What is the minimum width for the nock end on one of these? I have a pile of shoots I cut but some of them seem too skinny for a string
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on May 09, 2022, 08:12:56 am
9/32" self nock is about as small as I'll go at least with my serving.Always sinew or serving wrapped beneath.
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: Allyn T on May 09, 2022, 11:01:52 am
Ok thanks Ed
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: Pappy on May 13, 2022, 07:33:31 am
Good info Ed, thanks for taking the time to share. I love making shoot shafts, time consuming but very rewarding when finished.  ;)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on May 13, 2022, 02:21:35 pm
You bet....
I can't say how it is for everybody making shoot shafts.As for me a good day is getting 6 done after they are cured and right from the beginning I need to be inspired and in the mood to make these.They are'nt everybody's cup of tea,but I'm usually pleased with them when I get them done.
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: JW_Halverson on May 14, 2022, 12:07:20 am
I deal with the native wild kind. The red bark on them is a dead giveaway.

How do you know it's dogwood? From it's BARK, silly!
Title: Re: Straightening new shoot shafts
Post by: BowEd on May 22, 2022, 07:10:08 am
Even after they stay straight and seem mostly dried it's good to check them once a week as a bundle while bundled up.The whole bundle can bow a bit too.
Over the knee a quick bit fixes that.