Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: BowEd on June 23, 2022, 12:23:00 pm
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.....and so it begins.These are deer shot last fall and winter.3 with a self bow [1 buck and 2 does] and 1 [a doe] later in the winter with a .54 muzzleloader.I need to make room in the freezer for all the vegetables from the garden that'll go in the freezer this fall.The meat of 250+ pounds from these deer helps to relieve the cost of food these days.
I'll start out doing the largest hide first.A buck.Got it fleshed to dry down.There's a good 18 square feet in this one.
(https://i.imgur.com/ETCQDhJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BExMLXh.jpg)
Here's where he came from.He was shot in late november last year.Very healthy and still had a fair amount of tallow on him yet.
(https://i.imgur.com/6exqcSJ.jpg)
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A nice quartering shot too! Are you brain tanning?
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Yep.He took care of himself pretty well.Not too many scars.
Sure like the knock down ability of a 2 blade arrow when placed in the right place compared to any other way of putting a deer down.
I'm sure there will be minor barbed wire scars showing on the hair side later after dehairing,but no major punctures through the groin or punctures from fighting other bucks or misplaced shots from the past taken at him.
I've seen evidence of all of that plenty of times in the past.
Scars are character anyway.
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Always enjoy watching you work hides Ed.
You do very nice work and I always pick up some ideas.
Bjrogg
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He's got the potential size for a full length pants pipe.Got a mate to him [same size and age] already done to match him.
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Looking good Ed, way to hot and humid here to think about brain tanning, wished our weather here was better here this time of year but winter and early spring seems to be the best time for us. looking forward to watching you though. :)
Pappy
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Convenient weather is something I look for too.The brain tanning process of steps to do leaves these variables easy to adjust to.
Gotta pay attention to the weather forecast.It's not crucial but it makes the job done better and easier on a person too.
There is'nt anything I hav'nt learned over the last 40 years to make it easier or better.It's a simple but not easy to some process that puts out a superior product naturally for garments,bags,and accoutraments.
Like to get these hides dried down during a sunny and hot low humidity period for good dry scrape hair removal.
Then a period of 75 to 80 degree weather with a light breeze for roping after braining.Going in and out of the shade during the process.
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Lots of work there.
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Yes but enjoyable work also.
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For sure the right kind of weather makes it easier, still tough work but very satisfying work, at least is is for me. it's like a lot of things we do, making bow/home made arrows and many other things, some of us love it but it's not for everybody. :)
Pappy
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True.You get what you put into something.To do a nice job a person should not get in a hurry.The diligence will reward you.
The reason I mentioned scars is that a person has to look out for them while dry scrape dehairing a hide.Especially in the flanks on a deer.Barbed wire marks down the back side rarely concern me much because they are not that deep.Catching deep ones the wrong way with too much pressure can and will make a large hole especially in the flanks.
I use different width/very sharp mill bastard scrapers in different areas of a hide.
Sometimes in the flanks your almost better off to sand away the epidermis in thinner flank areas on smaller deer.
Larger hides on larger animals will have thicker epidermis also.Requiring more than 1 scrape to remove it all.Usually in the neck,spine and hip areas.
I give my hides an overall sanding of at least 80 grit to be sure all epidermis is removed.I sand the flesh side also to be sure all membrane is removed too.
After this preparing I'm confident then the brain oils will have every opportunity to penetrate the leather.
This hide I'm doing now is a wonderful hide.
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Another point is the weather I'd like to expand about.Like said earlier dehairing during low humidity periods does a cleaner job IMO.
The epidermis like the leather is subject to absorbing humidity.Higher humidity will make the epidermis more rubbery like,which can lead to the scraper chattering somewhat and not do as clean of a job.Assuming that your scraper is sharp also.
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The second hide is ready for brains.It was a late season muzzle loader deer shot with a johnathon browning .54.
(https://i.imgur.com/Qh8kEE9.jpg)
Gun laying on brain tanned elk hide.
(https://i.imgur.com/jQUp3lw.jpg)
The coyotes ate a little into the exit wound of the ball and the hide is around 10 square foot.Plenty enough yet for the front or back of a shirt.
Anytime coyotes get in there they damage a bit of the hide.It was around 5 below 0 F. that morning.
(https://i.imgur.com/mwPnYFW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uYwwTkj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4T1ETR9.jpg)
Onto the third hide.This one is about 15 square foot.An old doe.
(https://i.imgur.com/VmgvFHj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/m6aXGpi.jpg)
Here's where she came from last fall.A good quartering away shot.
(https://i.imgur.com/y90RiQh.jpg)
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Looking good Ed! Can I see a picture of the scraper you use? I made some rawhide out of a buck I shot last fall and I’m looking for better ways to remove the membrane to get it thinner.
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Main thing on a scraper is the blade mounting it at a 90 degree angle onto a stick or horn.If it's membrane than it's on the flesh side.
Here's a flesher [wider one] that I use mounted onto elk horn.Be sure to round the corners on the blade.
The blade is a piece of a cracked farming disk blade which I cut out from a disk blade with a torch.I did heat it red and dunk into some 10 weight oil to harden it farther after beveling it [about a 30 degree angle].A fleshing blade can be a little wider than a dehairing blade,but still very sharp.I only have one for fleshing.You can put a great amount of pressure on a framed in hide while fleshing to get every bit of membrane off.
The other is mounted onto elk horn too and it's blade is a chunk of mill basterd file.No reheating done on that.It's hard enough the way it is.These will hold an edge completely through doing a normal deer hide.
(https://i.imgur.com/Xbulu9S.jpg)
For a good edge for dehairing I sharpen mine with a stone.It does'nt take very long to get a good sharp edge.
(https://i.imgur.com/qdNoWJf.jpg)
Taking around 1/4" wide strip off at a time for dehairing is about the right width.Trying to take too wide of a strip will not work very well.
(https://i.imgur.com/lRb9Z7V.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/C1VopM4.jpg)
I keep various different width scrapers for different jobs on areas on a hide while removing the epidermis.
(https://i.imgur.com/ikVGfwW.jpg)
Hedge with the sapwood removed.
(https://i.imgur.com/WEBHPBL.jpg)
This one is only 1/2" wide for delicate areas of the flank on deer.
(https://i.imgur.com/C25wXwp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/E6dxGhJ.jpg)
Rawhide lace sized with TB 3 onto a piece of hedge.
(https://i.imgur.com/qqXdZCY.jpg)
Mounted onto a pine dowel.
(https://i.imgur.com/EOl5jyQ.jpg)
The best type of deer rawhide to use for backing a bow is these yearling deer or goat hides,or maybe the belly of a buck should work ok.
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Thanks for the detailed photos Ed. Those are really well made scrapers. I can see I’ve been using too wide of a scraper. I will be making a couple like yours before this fall.
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OK...Show me what you come up with for a scraper.I would of sent you a scraper if I'd known you were in need of one.I have sent them to other members before showing interest in brain tanning.
Right now I'm dehairing this big doe which is being tougher to get done than the larger buck I did.
It's taking quite a few strokes to get every bit of epidermis and hair roots off.
In the thinner areas its wise not to push too hard and look out for any scars along the way.
Some deer can be like that.Older deer many times can have thicker epidermis.That's why a very sharp dehairing blade is needed.Takes the epidermis off narrow enough without much pressure.
After all is dehaired though I usually give it a good sanding to be sure.I don't like to use any more coarse of sand paper than 60 grit on deer.Usually 80 grit is used.
Thicker hided animals like elk,buffalo,and beef 40 grit can be used on them.
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Ed, I used a fleshing knife on a fleshing beam my buddy let me use. It worked really well on the flesh side of the hide. I then soaked my hides in lye (made from wood ashes) and then scraped the hides with the fleshing knife. I then put the hides on a frame to dry.
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Ahhhh yes.I've fleshed and dehaired them that way before too after fleshing them good on the same beam.Makes for a smooth hair side surface.Many quillers and bead workers like that type of surface to work on.They usually call that the wet scrape method.Just like fleshing a coon.
Here's a picture of my beam fleshing tool.I've had this tool for 40 years.The outside 2" on each end are sharp while leaving the center 10" to 12" dull.
(https://i.imgur.com/QwBTlW7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UdDJfJI.jpg)
A semi dull scraper in that case is the best to use.One that you can run your finger across length wise with no fear of cutting yourself.Many times just a good soaking in water is enough.Don't even need to lime it and then delime and rinse it.
Frankly the flank leathers' usefullness is'nt much more than used as fringe anyway.Very thin and very stretchy.
I've removed those slight peppered hair root remanants before after dry scraping by soaking the hide in water and using a dull fleshing knife on a beam too.Then if the brains are ready I brain it and rope it dry right then without reframing it.
Dry scraping leaves a fuzzier surface.
Finished the stubborn to remove hair roots on the older big doe up with a lot of sanding.Nice smooth surface then too when finished.Used to do that by hand.Nowadays I use a palm or orbital sander.Suprisingly I used 40 grit on that doe and it worked.Right around 13 to 14 square foot there.Should end up with at least 10 square feet of brain tan from this one.Perfect for shirts and such,or even a shorter legged full lengthed pants pipe.Notice how narrower the necks are on these does.
(https://i.imgur.com/WmakiF0.jpg)
1 more 1 and 1/2 year old doe to do and then I'll start braining and roping them all dry.
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Got this 1 and 1/2 year old doe framed and fleshed this nice cool morning.
Sidenote....It's always nice getting up at dawn in the summer.Many songbirds rekindle their mating rituals with song ready to raise another hatch and the woods sound pretty nice.
This doe was one that squirted right underneath my stand running away from a buck and I spine shot her.Less than 5 yards beneath me.She dropped on the spot.
Very nice clean hide.Free of scars.
(https://i.imgur.com/RuoMogH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JN24InH.jpg)
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After letting the hide set in the 85 degree F. sun 4 to 5 hours the hide is well on it's way to getting dry and dry enough to sand.Not much membrane will be taken off if the fleshing was done properly.Usually remnants by the edges of the hide,but I still give it an overall sanding.
Picture will show the beginning of the sanding.
I use 80 grit sanding disk on my orbital sander.This serves 2 purposes.Getting rid of every bit of membrane and raising the nap of the rawhide to accept brain oils.
I then turn it over to the sun on the hair side.Letting it dry further through the afternoon.
(https://i.imgur.com/KisKP3L.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FzaHUOA.jpg)
This is the time table for a 1 and 1/2 year old doe of about 10 square feet.Larger thicker hides will take slightly longer as well as yearling deer under 1 year old will take less time yet.
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Very interesting topic. I think I might give this a go, usually I donate my hides or trade for a pair of gloves. Used to be able to trade for a nice pair of leather choppers or gloves, now they give a cheap pair of gloves made in china, so not worth the trip.
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That is a good option too.At times I used to use a company in Minnesota [Huber glove company] send me a few pairs of deer hide gloves and mittens from my hides also.They made a neat mitten called the 1 finger mitten that I still use to this day while hunting or driving tractor.Nothing like deer skin gloves.
They are chrome tanned and dyed a light tan.
(https://i.imgur.com/13yiC4R.jpg)
After another 4 to 5 hours of drying this hide is already ready to be dehaired.The first place to check if the epidermis is dry enough is at the thickest part.The mid section neck.If it's dry there it'll be dry everywhere else.
It's best to let it dry a little extra amount of time to be sure.It can make the job easier."Beware of scars".
(https://i.imgur.com/MfojbcN.jpg)
In times past I've demonstrated at town celebrations,rendezvous's,and bow making gatherings deer hides taken at dawn and had soft brain tan leather by dusk.Smoking them in the tipi into the dark to finish them up or smoking them the very next day.
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It’s definitely a labor of love Buckskinner. I hope you give it a try. You’ve got the right username for it to.
It really does produce a beautiful product. I take a couple of my brain tanned hides with me when I do presentations. People are alway surprised at how soft and subtle they are. They have a very hard time believing that I tanned them with the brains of the animals I got the hides from.
Of course Ed is really good at it and makes it look pretty easy. Truthfully it’s a lot of work and some people might even think it’s kinda messy. Like Ed I find working hides very rewarding. Otherwise I would just send them out to have someone else do them.lol
Thanks again for posting Ed. You really do some beautiful work
Bjrogg
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I really only found it messy when I think of it as dead animal parts from the woods. The yuck factor goes way down when you look at it as meat and wet dog chew -- which of course it is. :D
It is definitely very labor-intensive. I agree that BowEd does make it look easy. I wish I had the time, space, tools, and materials to do it right... :-\
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I've never needed to convince myself of anything else other than it's a resource.A replenishable one at that over the last 50+ years.
Things get easier the more you do them.Taking less time.
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I’m sure they do Ed. I know I have picked up lots of ideas from watching you post. I’m sure I would pick up a bunch more from watching you do the whole process in person. I can tell you have been using this renewable resource for many years.
Bjrogg
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Noone took the time to show me besides looking at a book.I figured things out pretty much on my own.I've seen different versions of getting the job done though later.
At 1 rendezvous at New Ulm,Minnesota I saw the prarie wolf.....John Mcphearson do a hide.He heated his brains up with hot rocks in a deer hide hung from a tri pod,just to show how primitively it could be done.
The breakdown of time totals to around 8 hours into each hide.With the whole process not needing to be done all at once.You can pick and choose when time is available to do the steps leaving days inbetween them if you like.
Frame and fleshing takes around 1 hour.Sanding 15 minutes.
Dehairing takes around 3 hours.Sanding 15 minutes.
Braining and stretching around 1 hour.
Roping dry around 3 hours depending on size of hide.
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Getting hotter again every day.4th of July today.Happy Independance Day!!!!!I'm not one to buy any fireworks.No kids around.Many pops and booms going on around me though in the distance.
I'll try to finish up this hide today dehairing.Slight chance of rain with it getting more humid.Rain looks like it'll go by to the north of us though.If not there's always another day....ha ha.This one's hair roots are being stubborn also.
If I'm lucky it looks like I'll have around 45 square feet of rawhide to brain tan and smoke from the 4 deer.
I might smoke 2 of the smaller ones together in a tube.Then smoke each larger one seperately.
Got around 15 to 20 pounds of pig brains in the freezer to use.
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I have a bad habit about not mentioning every problem solving remedy about this type tanning.
Weather....It's best to dehair during low humidity times.50% or less is ideal.Above 70% and on some older deer with thicker epidermis the epidermis can become rubbery or kinda gummy and not come off in a clean swipe from the scraper.It can chatter then also.Letting it set in the sun during high humidity will help also.
It can be dehaired during high humidity periods though.Just with a bit more tedium.Rescraping a different direction and then sanding usually solves the epidermis removal problem.
Scars.....After fleshing and sanding and before dehairing take note of all scars that are visible from the flesh side.Knowing then while dehairing where they are to avoid punching or tearing a hole.Those type scars will be completely through the hide.The flanks and belly are where most occur.Foul shots from seasons past etc.Always dehair with the line of the scar.Never crosswise.Scars do not smoke clean through and will show up white after smoking.Sometimes it can be easier to cut a hole with the scar and sew it up after braining but before roping.The sewn hole will be darn near invisible after smoking.
I use a no. 10 sharps needle and nymo beading thread to first sew the hole just before roping it dry.During the roping process if your sewing is good the leather will conform to the stretching and appear fixed and flat.Then after roping dry I resew it completely shut with real sinew before smoking.
Barbed wire marks down the spine line are usually not seen from the flesh side.Because they are not all the way through the hide.They usually don't bother at all.
All in all it really is'nt that hard of work.You can go at your own speed to finish it up.
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Finished dehairing the final hide.I'll conclude during this process that useing 40 grit on the orbital sander is safe enough if you watch what your doing.An ultra sharp scraper will usually do the job.You will notice if you've sanded too much creating thin spots and then holes created while twisting and roping it dry.That can be a disappointing experience then.
I still say 60 grit is about the coarsest sand paper I would use.80 grit usually does the trick very well for a smooth surface.
(https://i.imgur.com/gBBdSun.jpg)
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Looks great Ed!
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If it's going to be a while before a person makes brain tan out of this deer rawhide.It can be stored for quite some time as is.
What I have done in the past and it works is that I give each hide a light misty spray of regular deep woods off.
It'll keep the bugs away.
I'll pick and choose myself when the weather is ideal for a stretch to rope these dry.
You also can brain the hides good and freeze them too,and then rope them dry when weather is ideal.
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Ed, what size are your racks? I'd like to make some from the cedar growing on my place before hunting season starts.
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Cedar is a good choice.They can be left outside and won't rot then either.Because they might be light I'd make them into 2" by 4"s at least,or a good 3" round if not cut lumber.They should'nt bow or twist then too bad while drying.
Inside dimensions of frames I have......1 frame [7' by 6'] is big enough to accomodate large beef,buffalo,or large elk 900 to 1000 pounds.Other [5.5' by 6.5'] is for big white tails 200 pounds or more,and the hedge frame [5.5' by 5.5'] is for medium sized deer around 150 pounds.
I like the use of a frame close to the size of the deer so less lace is used,but still get a good stretch on the rawhide.Holes are cut 1" in from edge every 4" or so.I use a nylon half inch braided tape that was used to pull fiber through conduit long distances to lace mine.Using 30' lengths and tying knots as I go.Nylon does not tangle very easily.Hardly at all really.Knots come out rather easily also.A real time saver.
I used to use nylon parachute cord which works great too.
Making them 5.5' by 6' will accomodate most all deer.Inside dimensions.
I used to have more frames.Can't remember where they went over the years.They were 2" by 4'' pine lumber.
I've seen some nifty versions by some useing clamps on cords to stretch the hide in.A bit faster,but I don't think it gives it as good of a stretch.
For softening in the frame though [staking] the hide does not need to be very tight at all.
Here is the only other different way I used to lace hides in.With staples around the inside edge of 2" by 4"'s.
A set up in the basement of my old farmhouse 40 years ago.Had a wood stove and used a fan too in the basement to do them through out the winter.Same dehairer also.
In those days I had a regular production line going of brain tanning deer hides.
(https://i.imgur.com/mf3zjsQ.jpg)
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Looks great Ed. Great information. By the way I already used some of your rawhide on a hickory recurve. Very nice, high quality rawhide you sent me. Thank you!
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Glad to hear it was put to good use.Your welcome.
Many ways to decorate a rawhide back or just to leave it natural too.
It's been raining pretty much every day here lately.Not complaining though.We need the rain.
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Here are the 4 hides ready to be brained.
Laid on top of each other rolled up.3' ruler there for a reference of size.
(https://i.imgur.com/otH3OR7.jpg)
Largest one rolled around the smaller ones.
(https://i.imgur.com/kHIEmtR.jpg)
Do them all when the weather is more suited for the job.
If your wanting to make 3' long 2" wide rawhide strips for backing bows you can see many can be gotten from 1 hide.
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Thanks, Ed for the dimensions.
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If ever your at Pappys' place like you've been in the past at Twin Oaks I'm sure he'd help you out too.He's brain tanned many a deer hide.
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Looking good Ed, I have 10 or 12 rolls like that standing in the corner of the cabin just waiting to be brained when the weather gets right, that may be a while around here, :-\ good thing as you said if you keep the bugs/mice or dogs out of it and dry i guess it will last a life time in raw hide form, sort of like leg tendons, I got some out Friday for a friend and helped him pound it, no problem and I am sure they were 8 or 9 years old, I just save all that kind of stuff and if you keep it in a dry safe place it will be there whenever you need it,even years later. I love watching your tan a longs, I have done many but always seem to learn something I haven't thought of that make it either easier or better leather , Thanks. :)
Pappy
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Yep it's a type of tanning without chemicals that can be picked up anytime the mood swings a persons' way with it still being as good as gold for the final product.
Getting them into the rawhide state makes room in the freezer for other things.
It's been a yearly ritual or priority for me for quite some time.Hides usually don't stick around very long though and I've made about everything under the sun from them in the past too.
Quill workers and bead workers will seek out good brain tan for the projects they sell and a lot of them go there too.
Funny how things stick with a person that are liked as a kid.Fur,leather....etc.
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While growing up I lived just a few miles from the South Dakota border.I guess I am influenced by the culture of the native american plains indian.A sound nonimpactful way of getting along with mother nature.The nomadic life style they lived is 1 reason why I use the dry scrape method of brain tanning.
Another reason why I make many things out of rawhide also.Parafleches,containers,boxes,quivers,knife sheaths and the like.All these items stated are posted with pictures on threads.The strips of thicker rawhide I use to tie or secure a lot of things.Usually from thicker beef rawhides.
(https://i.imgur.com/J1STxjN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OmzRDf3.jpg)
I use it to make my top shelf hide glue also.
Even lacing in a backpack/chair combo.A build-a-long is posted making this item.This as a back pack that weighs less than 5#'s and it'll carry 90#'s of meat/equipment or as much as you can handle.It's a chair to sit around a camp fire or even a chair in a canoe like long ago.A multi purpose use item.
(https://i.imgur.com/3n83U1A.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HGd1rKZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7ZqaCQm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/33EIgjN.jpg)
As luck or bad timing can happen.I've had to go through a minor surgery and recovery says I'm to not do any strenuous excersize for at least 3 weeks.Even riding the lawn mower is considered extreme.Extreme if you ask me but a person better not argue with a surgeon.
I'm doing well though and the future looks bright.
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It's funny how far behind things can get in 3 to 4 weeks,but I'm back in the saddle again as they say getting things done before winter hits.
A pleasant stretch of temperatures lately is a good time to do it.
Finished up braining and roping dry the previous 4 hides shown earlier.Thick and soft as velvet.All holes are sewn with real sinew and ready to smoke.
I smoke hides inside my steel tractor shed with the sliding door open so weather will not be any factor getting that done.
I measure to around 35 square foot of brain tan there.A yard stick ruler is there as a reference.That's about a 25% shrinkage from a rawhide stretched state of 45 square feet after roping them dry,and that's about normal.Roping them dry will get you a thicker hide.
I use foot square tiles on the floor in my basement to measure the square footage.
The hide on the far right [the spine shot 1 and 1/2 year old doe] became smaller as I sanded too much and holes appeared.Something I warned about previously in reply #30.Lesson learned here is that it's ok using coarser sand paper on older thicker hides but not on younger thinner hides.
Far left is the buck at around 12 square feet and the 3 does to the right of him at 10,8,and 5 square feet.
(https://i.imgur.com/CECP0XP.jpg)
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Happy you're well and in force again
Those hides are real beauty !
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Happy you're well and in force again
Those hides are real beauty !
Ditto Ed
Nice work as always and I bet you turn them into something really nice to.
Bjrogg
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The iconic whitetailed deer is suited for garment leather.Especially using the soft version of brain tan.
There's something about what brains do to the feel of the leather against your skin.Very pleasant.
It takes around 45 to 50 square feet of leather to make a shirt and pants outfit for a man.Depending on the size of the individual.A little less using leggins.
It takes around 30 to 35 square feet for a semi short sleeved dress for a woman.Depending on the style of dress that is made.
It may be hard but it's best to accumulate a bunch of hides before doing garment projects.Using hides that match the best for thickness because they can vary quite a bit.
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Looking very good ED, glad you are up and going again. :)
Pappy
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I talked a lot about scars on these deer hides.To me scars tell a story.The older the deer the more stories.A lot like people.
There are many books out there about brain tanning.Some go into the finer details of problem solving and some don't.
Superficial scars while dehairing are not easily seen.Those are scars that did'nt completely go through the hide and usually are never a problem.An example is a barbed wire mark on the back of a deer.
Ones that do go through the hide are easily seen while dehairing and sometimes after fleshing.Mostly appearing in the flanks of deer.Those if not carefully dehaired around can turn into a big hole in your rawhide if your scraper is not razor sharp.
Dehairing with the grain of the scar and not crosswise to catch the scar and make a hole is the best bet to avoid making any holes.Many times it's best to just sand the epidermis away from over scars especially in the flanks.Scars are hard compared to regular leather and will never soften.
It's going to look unique after smoking the scars on these bucks around the neck areas.As scars do not smoke as dark as the rest of the areas and will be revealed after smoking.
Lots of pin point punctures the size of a soybean seed from other bucks antlers going into their necks from fighting during the rut will be seen from this latest buck.He fought a lot it looks like.
It looks like one of the does had been hit by a broadhead in the back in years past also.Plus the usual scars that can appear in their flanks etc. from punctures.I've seen 3 way lined scars in deer before from previous hits by tri-bladed broadheads in hides I've brain tanned.
Someday I'd like to find a broadhead stuck in a vertebra that was grown over and healed.I've seen pictures of it happening from freshly killed deer.
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Missed ya at Mojam Ed. Glad to see that you are back to gettin' it done.
Hope all is going well for you.
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Thanks Paul.I'm sure you guys had a great time.I'll be there next year.Probably with a few items to sell or trade.I miss the fish fry Jon puts on too.Delicious!!!!!He's quite a guy.Makes tons of bows into any style too.
I laid out my full length pants pattern out onto these 2 buck hides.Looks like it'll work out.Need to smoke the recent hide yet.
To get full length pants pipes the larger bucks do this.Even on leggins.It's extended body length and the wider extended necks on these that get them their.
(https://i.imgur.com/zVIAbeu.jpg)
Good winter time project.
(https://i.imgur.com/sFFMRiv.jpg)
Does' hides most times will make very nice long type shirts.Here's one of a few I made.
(https://i.imgur.com/YYEVxN8.jpg)
They can make pants or legginns also with a splice below the knee.
(https://i.imgur.com/G8cXKpv.jpg)
I should just sell this pants as I won't need it anymore.
I have many books here with information and pictures on the old and new styles of clothing the plains indian wore.
Simple but effective is usually the main theme.Some can be quite elaborate.
Here's a long type coat I made many years ago using 7 doe hides with a little beadwork on it.
I've replaced the ties with buttons since this picture.
(https://i.imgur.com/mvlCon6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7k1L2yu.jpg)
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Got the buck hide smoked.A little character shows on his neck from punctures of other bucks antlers fighting during the rut as I stated in reply 48 he was a fighter.
These 2 buck hides I'll use for my full length pants.The puncture scars will show on the lower part of the pants pipe.Got them matched up color wise pretty well.
(https://i.imgur.com/L34rdqW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PByalrP.jpg)
The neck thickness on this buck is around 3/16" which will be on the bottom cuff end of the pants.Plenty thick.The rest of the hide is 1/8" thick.
(https://i.imgur.com/RP3FACP.jpg)
The elk hides' thickness averages around 1/4" which is actually too heavy for garment leather IMO.
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Looking really good Ed.
Bjrogg
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It's been beautiful,pleasant weather lately.Cool dewey mornings turning into warm pleasant days.I'm smoking 1 hide a day now.Finished one of the does today.She had a nice scar on the back side of here neck.Not from a hunter I don't think but you never know.
(https://i.imgur.com/srUHht3.jpg)
I enjoy sewing the hides to be smoked outside by the woods listening to all the bird chatter out there.We have tons of song birds around us here.Occasionally seeing deer,turkey,or quail too.The cooler it gets towards fall the more the activity will pick up with animals getting ready for the winter.
For the least amount of waste sewing by hand is the best.1/4" stitches Right to the edge with a whip stitch that are snug for a good tight seal.Thicker brain tan I sew the edges together.
Holes that are not sewn or plugged [sometimes holes close to the edge are not worth the time sealing] can be sealed with a wad of tissue paper.The smoke will go right to the edge of the hole nicely.Any smoke escaping will leave a very dark spot.Even paper thin leather from a knife slit skinning will be darker also.
A person wants to stay away from creating too much draft with this type of smoking as the smoking material can ignite eventually and your hide will get burned up in the process.Unplugged holes will create this.Very disappointing.I baby sit the process throughout.I keep a squirt bottle of water nearby in case of any flare ups.
You want to create a nice balance of just enough draft air to keep the coals hot but not too hot.Sealing the hide tube well helps slow the draft down considerably.
A small 2" high 8" circle of coals is all you will need to smoke a hide.Using too large amount of a coal pile will create too much heat and dark streaks onto the hide plus too much heat and leather does not mix well.I use osage for coals and hickory bark for smoking material.
While smoking you should be able to stick your hand inside the smoking chamber and leave it for at least 20 seconds or as long as you like.
It leaves a very pleasant smell to the hides smelling like hickory smoke.Robin loves it in the house.
Some think smoking a hide from over a stove and stove pipe could be the solution to avoiding burning up a hide.It can if the hide is quite a distance away from the stove over the stove pipe.Heat directly above a wood stove will easily get over 5 to 600 degrees.It is one way to stay away from breathing any of the smoke though and will work well if baby sat also.
My set up only takes a few minutes to set up and can be put away for later.
(https://i.imgur.com/mOXwF3l.jpg)
The buffer skirt that I sew onto the bottom of the tube I will sew on with my machine.I don't mind losing a 1/8" or 1/4" of rump leather as it's very thin and only useful far as I'm concerned for fringe or lace.
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There are many ways to smoke a hide or in this case a deer hide.I've tried them all it seems.
Hanging in a tipi or shed or sewn into a tube.Hung from a tri-pod from their neck or from there back end.Even over a hole in the ground from a tri- pod.
That reminds me I once steam heat shrunk a circular section of raw hide buffalo hide shoulder over a hole using heated rocks in the hole with water thrown over the rocks.The hot steam increased the thickness of the rawhide by 2 to 300 percent.I was making a shield.
For the past 40 years I've used an 18" section of a 30 gallon steel barrel and a tri-pod for smoking deer hides.A 30 gallon barrel is about the same circumference as the circumference of the back end of a normal deer when sewn into a tube.
The skirt sewn along the bottom edge of the deer hide is a buffer from heat to the leather laying against the steel barrel.I overlap the 2 ends of the skirt by around 4" to create a storm flap type of closure while smoking.
(https://i.imgur.com/HOkcnZ4.jpg)
Last but not least while smoking I try to keep the hide free from folds or inaccessible places the smoke won't be able to get to.I've gone to using fish hooks and string tied off on one of the legs of the tri-pod to keep the hide completely open into a nice tube.Even the odd shaped deer hides.It'll give the hide a nicer evenly smoked look.
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Lots of great tips here from someone who obviously has a ton of experience. I have a hide backlog right now - there are a bunch of dried ones that need softening, and a few that just need smoking. I never seem to have a nice uninterrupted chunk of time to get into them...maybe this year!
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Thanks for the story and pice, talent.
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One nice thing about this type of tanning is that the rawhide or brained softened hide will wait till you get around to finishing it if it's stored properly.I try keep up with it over here.Smoking it can be done any time of year or temperature.
You are right I've been doing this longer than most on here have been alive and have done hundreds of hides.I still can go into my own glory when I finish brain tanned hides.They are unique.Wonderfully soft and tough as rawhide because all they are really is softened rawhide.
I'm truly surprised as to the lack of interest into these type of skills on this forum with all of the more primitive type outdoorsman people on here.It's a gift that keeps on giving.
"Ai'nt nothing like brain tanned leather"
There's many ways to do this as I stated earlier.I've refined my way to be totally predictable when I do it.I try to comment on every difficullty that might be encountered.
Another day,another hide smoked.Pictures are pretty self explainable.I try to keep the smoke pretty intense throughout.I add smoking material around every 10-15 minutes to keep the intensity up.Using hickory bark [a thinner material it coals over fairly quick] it creates some good heavy smoke.
(https://i.imgur.com/wyjfVTM.jpg)
Check it at 45 minutes and move on.The side against the skin for clothes is usually a little darker than the outside or hair side.
I usually smoke mine fairly dark compared to most.Reason being is these hides can be washed in a regular washing machine if you like and scuffed back out soft.Getting wet from the river or rain or washing will fade the smoke color a little each time.I like to start out with enough color to go quite a while before needing to resmoke it.Washing it does even out the color nicely if desired.Quill and bead workers usually like it a little lighter.
Resmoking a garment will need to be done in a shed or a tipi.Hung up out in the open to let the smoke adhere to the garment.
My hides will usually be a little tacky after smoking.After smoking the hide should be rolled up or folded and left to set a couple days to let the creosote dry out completely.
They can be scuffed over the rope a few times then and be ready to use.
(https://i.imgur.com/yi0CziS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lCVNrpd.jpg)
Smoking this way forces the smoke completely through most deer hides.Smoking in a shed or tipi it can go through fairly well also but not as much I don't think.One good thing about smoking that way is that you can smoke a number of hides at 1 time,but it will take a little longer.8 to 12 hours or longer.Safe way to smoke them and you won't need to babysit the smoking procedure for fear of burning up.Just check the color occasionally.
In a tube it takes me normally around 2 to 3 hours per hide.You can see the smoke showing through already on this hide.
(https://i.imgur.com/jEG2jGP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PoYEY5b.jpg)
Some of my smoking material right outside the door of the tractor shed.
Smoking in a quiet windless enviornment is best.Too much wind can create an excess draft and the smudge fire can ignite and burn your hard work.Plus the smoke job onto the hide will look streaky as well.
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The hides are smoked and ready to be used for something.I have a few projects planned.
Everything is put away for the next round of hides.A person never knows though what will transpire during the winter though with some furred animals.
Kind of a long detailed display of the steps done [2 months' worth off and on] showing this hidework process but if it can help someone to do their own and enjoy it as much as I do and avoid some of the mistakes the better.
Onto other tasks around here before the winter comes.Finishing up with the garden & canning & freezing.Get the ground ready for next year.Some bush hogging,and one of my most anticipated events of the year the deer season within a month.
Rechecking all my stands for sturdiness and shooting lanes.The deer crop looks good around here.
Robin said she seen a huge 12 point cross the road in front of her going to town.Said it was huge....interesting!!Lord knows we got plenty of does around here.
Well the golden rod is beginning to bloom along with the black eyed susans.The sumac is turning red and the walnuts' leaves are beggining to turn yellow signaling the end of summer.The nut trees will begin to drop their nuts and acorns soon.
A special time of year.
Here's to the present and what can be.
(https://i.imgur.com/WUOZqAG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/sfwJBmN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/W0X0ATu.jpg)
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We appreciate you sharing the knowledge ED. I still have a deer couple coons and couple beaver to do If it cools down a bit.
Piddler
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Cool...Fur-on brain tanning especially beaver can be tough for a nice soft outcome.They are thicker hided than a person thinks.
Bulkier because of the hair to rope dry also,but not too bad compared to a roping deer hide.Smaller hide altogether makes up the difference in difficulty.
They can take some time though.Same with otter.They are thicker than a person thinks also.I use a wooden stretching frame for them after fleshing.
For beaver after fleshing well and lacing it in a hoop and left to dry I suggest using a palm sander with 40 grit paper to thin the hide some.Spine,neck and rump areas mostly.It'll make softening a lot easier and more successful the first time braining.
I made or welded up a 1/2" rerod hoop years ago.Robin uses the steel hoop to make round finger woven rugs now.
Made many a large willow hoops from the steel hoop tieing them onto the steel to let dry.Blanket beaver measure 32" by 32".That's the size I made the steel hoop or a little larger really.It takes a 13 to 14 foot willow to get that big of a hoop.
(https://i.imgur.com/3f5BcgT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5IGcFkM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Zpdwn2y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JnOvOIP.jpg)
Assuming it's a winter hide sanding till you can just start to see the hair roots slightly through the leather.It'll take a while and you can feel how thin it's getting also.It will be thin enough then to get a good stretch on that leather to get softened.
At that point par boil cook up a pound of brains and massage them into the flesh side warm while laced in the hoop.Keep massaging till the brains are used up and hide is completely limp.Try not to get any on the fur.
Then it's just a matter of unlacing it from the hoop and stretching hide every direction and roping it dry.You'll like it.
Beaver fur is some nice stuff.
Doing other fur hided critters like large coon sanding can be done on the neck and spine a bit too.Coyotes and fox usually don't need any sanding on the hide. Except maybe a large coyotes' neck area.They usually are good to go without any sanding.
There's at least 8 different animal hides hanging on this rack.Some are brain tanned and some are aluminum sulfate/pickling salt tanned.
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Ed, you are correct that beaver are thick. I took my dremmel oscillating tool with some 60 and 80 grit to them. Thinned them down a lot. Even hit the coons a bit in the shoulders and head area. I have a few deer brains to use. I have two beaver about 36 x 31 and a couple smaller. Didn't get them very round I don't guess. Gonna try the orange bottle stuff on the smallest one, hair is not as good as the others for some reason. Used it on a couple coons. Turned out ok but I'm sure would have been better with brains. I've got them out of the hoops already. The dremmel was cutting the line when sanding. Wasn't planning on putting them back in the hoops unless I would need to for some reason. Just gonna brain and go for it. Yes all winter beaver and coon from last winter. Pretty fur except for the littler one. There's a lot of working fleshing those things. They've been salted, stretched and dried ever since. Work got in the way during the spring when I was planning on doing them then it got too hot.
Piddler
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Chemically tanning is cool too.I've done a lot of them with aluminum sulfate and pickling salt.
There's a smaller amount of roping and stretching to be done while drying using chemicals.
When done properly with brains though it will be softer IMO and more gratifying.
Just finished up on a 30 square foot beef rawhide today.Cut out a number of 12",8",and 6" circles for drums or handle lace wraps on bows.Large 40" by 40" piece out of the center for pocket,hip,or back side quivers,knife sheaths,paraflech,or even a rawhide box.This type rawhide will be a little more pliable but still be stiff and hard enough yet.
I had brained it earlier.Staked it in frame for quite some time but not completely dry.Folded it up and put it in the freezer a few months till now.Still cardboardy and around a 1/8" thick will work great as rawhide.
The scrap pieces I'll cut up and make hide glue from them.
(https://i.imgur.com/6gbiUCT.jpg)
In the past I've made quite a few cat quivers from beef rawhide.At 3D shoots people would approach me to get one for themselves.Even toting FG bows.I charged them $70.00 a piece for them.They usually did'nt have anything worth while to trade to me.
(https://i.imgur.com/lI8UIIo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Jp1x92j.jpg)
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Well got the two coons on deer brains and the beaver on the orange bottle juice. Will work them some tomorrow. As per the instructions I don't think its a time crunch on the beaver so I can work it as it dries. Didn't seem to be a time crunch when I used it on the other coons as it seemed to dry slow. The coons I have using the brains I should get tomorrow but if I only have time for one I'll put the other in the freezer and do it later.
Piddler
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That'll work....cool.It's best to not get rushed....
and yes those chemically tanned ones just need periodic type stretching.Not as much as using brains.
Freezing can actually help loosen up the fibers.Much like freezing vegetables and thawing as they become softer.
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I like those quivers. Do you seal/treat the rawhide to waterproof it?
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It's thicker hard rawhide but light weight yet.I melt bees wax or paraffin into the rawhide.Does a pretty decent job water proofing it.
Sealed so well if it gets caught in a down pour you've got a large cup of water in the bottom to pour out....ha ha.
Here's my old stand-by...the first one I made.Use it every year.Not the prettiest but makes up for it by it's handiness.
In the past I've made canteens from turtle shells sealing rawhide with bees wax.
(https://i.imgur.com/9U4SQj2.jpg)
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Thanks for sharing your vast experience with us Ed.
I always learn something when you post these
Those quivers do look really nice.
Bjrogg
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Thanks!
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A person can research and experiment with this water proofing goal.
I've found prickly pear cactus juice and shellack does not do as good of a job as paraffin or bees wax.
Rawhide lace for my backpack chair or snow shoes I used a tung oil varnish applying it on in multiple layers with a brush.
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Ed, The coon in the brains came out pretty good. It was a big boar coon and is as good as the little ones I had done with the orange juice. Still have the one in the freezer may try it tomorrow. It's a big boar as well. Could have probably thinned them down in the neck area some more it seems. The beaver got another shot of orange juice today. Still a work in progress that one. They are some thick hided creatures down the back even though I thinned them down or at least thought I did.
Piddler
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Nice work then on the coon.Got any pictures?Nice hats,pouches or even quivers from them.
Yep those beaver are thick little guys.They need to be being in that cold water and taking on the bites from each other.
Wood chucks are'nt quite as bad,but I like to make just plain rawhide from woodchucks.
Even using 40 grit onto an orbital sander can take some time thinning.Being that thick they take a while to dry too after tanning.
A razor sharp scraper can be use to thin too but then it should be laced in a frame.
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Couple pics, hope they aren't distorted or too small.
The Coon is the one that was brained and froze. Pretty thick old coon hide. Turned out pretty good. Beaver still a work in progress but getting there. Quite a lot of work in the Beaver. All of them for that matter. Makes you gain a whole new respect for the people of old. I can't even imagine a buffalo.
Piddler
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Well photos are a little distorted. Maybe if open the attachments they will be somewhat normal.
Anyway,
Thanks Ed. Enjoy these threads and gaining knowledge from you guys.
Piddler
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I usually cut a line though the belly of coon that are cased while braining and stretching while drying.I can get a better stretch on the hide and on the rope.
Hides look well fleshed and the fur looks good too.Pictures are not distorted.
The leather structure of animals like deer,elk,and buffalo get progessively coarser.In fact one has to be careful about getting buffalo or elk too thin.Just concentrate thinning in the neck,spine,and hip areas only.While staking elk or buffalo holes can appear just from stretching too much while staking.Deer is the tightest of the ungulates and usually that does'nt occur.Antelope and goats too.I have over stretched yearling deer before though too as it's rather thin and dries rather fast.
Beaver,coon,coyotes,otter,and fox are all tight also.That's why deer are really the best garment leather out there.
Beef hides are the exception.Their fiber structure is tighter yet even with it's large size.They are very hard to get a good stretch on to soften.I believe horses are about the same also but can't say for sure.Usually I make rawhide from beef hide.They can be somewhat softened or pliable though after braining to make parafleches and rawhide boxes from though.Contrary to what some may think that smoking helps soften them like doing moose does not work on beef rawhides.
I usually stake buffalo or elk till almost dry then unlace it and rope it.It's the volume of square footage that's tiring to keep up with,but does get lighter as moisture disappears.Of course areas that are dry don't need attention.Just the still damp areas.It can take quite a while till the neck and hips of elk and buffalo get dry.It has fooled me before and takes extra hours to completely dry.I've rebrained the thicker areas and reroped again before with success too.
Putting it into a plastic bag while taking a break does a great job of not letting it dry out on you.I think it redistributes the dampness from the thicker areas to the thinner areas already softened making the process easier and actually dries the hide faster in the end.
Then after taking it out of the plastic bag the hide gets an overall roping again and then back to concentrating on the thicker areas again.
In the past I've laid towels onto deer hides and rolled them up for an hour or so after twisting to even out the moisture overall on hide and then begin roping it dry.I see no need to do that any more though for quite some time as I rotate the donut 90 degrees and retwist the hide a few times more,and that is good enough then.A few small wetter places may still remain but no too bad really.
Should have more pictures of this,but this in the only one I've got showing the donut formed and the twisting process.
This was a beef hide but the set up is the same for all hides.The hide is layed onto the pole width wise overlapping neck and hind quarters over the pole.Edges are rolled up to meet each other.This prevents any slippage that might occur during the twisting.
(https://i.imgur.com/Ej0cg7k.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Nc7BJpu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FewSbvv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PC1c3rH.jpg)
After twisting and catching all the drippings I put the brain solution back onto the stove to warm up while stretching and pulling the hide back into shape on the rope.Then redunk the hide back into the brain solution for an hour or so and go through the process again till satisfied.
When I see small bubbles oozing out of the rawhide while twisting it's telling me it is getting brained properly.
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I really struggled with getting the right moisture content on the first hide I softened. After my hands and forearms recovered, I realized it had been way too damp to start. I have done a couple more since that one, but the memory of how long the first one took is probably why I have such a backlog of hides to soften! I am hoping that the dried ones can just be dampened slightly and will be a lot quicker/easier to work. Thanks for the photos of your rolling/wringing setup.
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At 75 to 80 degree weather F. with a slight breeze a normal sized deer hide of 10 square feet as rawhide usually only takes about 3 hours roping time to soften and dry.It may take longer overall just because of it being put into the plastic sack intermittently taking breaks of a half hour or so along the way.Larger and thicker 15 to 20 square foot bucks will take 4 to 5 hours of roping time.Yearling deer hides will take under 3 hours.
It's all a matter of how long and hard you rope it and how warm and windy it is outside.When roping in too hot and windy of conditions it can be hard to keep up with it as fast as it is drying if it's a larger hide.
You might have to rebrain/twist them from a donut 4 or 5 times rebraining every time the ones that are dried to be sure they are brained properly,and rope them dry again.I'm sure they will be brained properly then.
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Many times in the beginning of learning to brain tan deer hides people don't realize that all of the epidermis is not off.Their eyes are not trained enough yet to see it.Which can account for stiffness in hides.It is'nt until they smoke it and see the lighter colored streaks on their smoked hide that they realize it.
Scars can be white because they are scars...hard and not leather.
2 things have got to be to get soft as flannel hides.All the epidermis off and the hide being brained properly.
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I've been experimenting and debating with myself different ways to dye this smoked brain tan.
These are some paint sticks used with good results.
(https://i.imgur.com/jCx5DUO.jpg)
A lot less trouble/mess and more water proof than using dry earth pigments and an adjuvant like egg yolk.
They are acrylic paint sticks to be exact.Some blue colors tested.
(https://i.imgur.com/a25qs4C.jpg)
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Wow, very impressive and useful information here. Have you ever done a bear? They seem very thin skinned and I assume not great leather from them.
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I've only chemically tanned a bear before with alumnum sulfate and pickling salt.I traded my bear hide away at a rendezvous.
I did a black angus calf later which sorta simulates bear fur,but still have not made anything from it yet.
Back then I had thoughts of making some winter type gaiters from it.The practical side of me always wants to make use of hair on hides or hides in general.
(https://i.imgur.com/QHOFOsb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hg9QS4l.jpg)
It takes less strenuous roping in the end than brain tanning it,but still special longer roping time still needs to be done on the thicker areas like the face/spine and hips like most animals.Don't be fooled thinking it's dry enough.The extra roping and stretching will make a difference on how soft it gets.
Thinning those areas before hand helps.That's when with it being stretched in a frame that thinning can be done.I use a sharp scraper and nowadays an orbital sander with 40 grit paper.
Fully equipped taxidermists have leather thinning machines to thin the hide prior to tanning.
The thing about doing a bear is that most people want the face,legs,paws,and claws on them as a robe type rug.Lacing all that stretched properly in a frame can be a challenge but I'm sure it can be done to apply the brains on the flesh side till limp and roping it dry.
I fleshed mine on a beam thoroughly even the flesh membrane as much as I can.Then washed it very good in a tub with dish washing soap and rinses because a bear is very greasy like a coon.Then made my tanning solution/pickling bath plenty strong to only need to soak it in it a week to 10 days.Stirring it at least 4 to 5 times a day to be sure all areas get tanned.
That's the easy part.I would use 5 pounds of aluminum sulfate and 3 pounds of pickiling salt in 5 to 7 gallons of water for a 350 to 400 pound animal.Weight it down if needs to be.
I guess 2 weeks would'nt hurt either as the hair should not slip yet because the solution will not allow bacteria to develop.You check penetration of chemical periodically by slicing a sliver of hide off the edge.Preferably in a thicker area to be sure the rest of the hide is fully tanned.
Then it's just a matter rinsing it few times and getting rid of the moisture.Stretching the hide periodically in all directons and all areas while drying.In the beginning for a while just laying it out there with no stretching needed.Oiling it while damp with neats foot oil will help softening to a degree also as it will emulsify with the damp leathers' moisture into the leather.
Years ago I made a tumbler that turns 13 times a minute to tumble put up coon and coyotes to sell up north.I've used it before to soften an aluminum sulfate tan.
An aluminum sulfate tan is way different softening than a brain tanned hide,but still prefer to do some stretching on the hide as the cob grit in the tumbler is rather dirty and needs changing and will soil the leather some.Still much easier as said before though.The fibers just need to be stretched to a degree but mostly broken to get soft.
(https://i.imgur.com/CspGGuj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Yro5ALm.jpg)
A hair on hide such as yours will probably take the best part of 3 days to completely get dry.When not roping it I would store it in a plastic bag twisted shut.
You will have accomplished something to be proud of.
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I wanted to comment on the difference between these 2 buck hides as to their life style and nature during the rut.
(https://i.imgur.com/L34rdqW.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IsUU3iH.jpg)
Conditioning/health/and enviornment will have a lot to do about this also I imagine.
Even though the hides are very close to the same thickness and size the one on the left/speckeled up in the neck from fighting was from a 4 year old animal opposed to the one on the right who was a 6+ year old animal and a fair amount larger with far less scars from fighting than the 4 year old and I believe was a more dominant type buck during the rut.It might be too the amount of testosterone in an animal.Hard to judge really as the older bucks' neck was as thick as I've ever seen on a buck.More so than the younger buck.
It's not always that the biggest buck that is the dominate one as I'm sure some of you know.Many experts out there about this.Of course size of body/weight and rack does mean something for intimidation but when push comes to shove the more docile animal will turn and run even though he is larger.
To me the proof is in the scars on the animal.
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I have a bag of aluminum sulfate I may have to try on one of the beavers. Still gonna brain one if I get time.
Piddler
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Cool....Thinning that beaver will make work easier.Use the fine non iodized pickiling salt.
Years ago I bought a 50lb. bag of aluminum sulfate.Still using some of it to this day.It's still rather cheap stuff yet these days.
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Still have some pickling salt left. Bought quite a bit last season. I actually salted the hides a day or so then rinsed it off and dried the hides. Beaver in the hoops. Still some salt in the hides as I noticed my sander had gathered some rust pretty quick. Gotta read up on the Aluminum Sulfate method. Still gonna brain one when I get a chance. Need to before bow season starts Oct 1 but may not make it. Definitely need to thin those other beaver more than the last one.
Ed we are gonna have to get you to explain your roping method. How big of a rope, is it tied vertical or horizontal, how tight, do you fold the hide when working and so on. I get the idea but seem to be missing something.
Thanks for the info as it is a help.
Piddler
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That darn salt is nasty.Even the fine powder.Kills lawns for a while real easy too.On greasier animals such as coon,beaver,and bear it helps to dry up grease if you let it flint dry.Meaning dry but still pliable.I never salt deer hides.Just freeze them or make rawhide to store them.
Alumunm sulfate tanning is a very safe fool proof way of tanning.
My roping method is pretty straight forward.Been using an inch thick nylon tow rope for years now.Tied on vertically to a tree or anywhere.I like it in the shade anyway.
I've used steel cable and skinnier lariot rope before too.
Length wise/cross wise/diagonal wise/and along the edge wise.Rotating the hide a 1/4 turn as I go.Smaller hides are less effort of course,but larger hides I lean into it pretty good.
In the beginning just stretch it in all directions far as possible while really damp.
I don't start rubbing it across the rope till the outside surface is considerably dry but a little damp on the interior yet,but stay with it till it's all completely dry.Timely work on areas more than others at times.I take breaks putting it into a plastic bag wadded up.
If I could get Robin to rope while I get a bite to eat would be nice but don't expect that of her.She does like the outcome of the process though.Made her a dress some time ago.
Usually always the edges and belly are dry first of course.Then I concentrate on spine,neck,and hip areas.
I touch it against my cheek to feel if areas are still damp.If it feels cool it's damp.If it's warm it's not.
(https://i.imgur.com/6wUvgoG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/pEULyKi.jpg)
You can see if the rope is tied high enough at the base that you won't need to worry about the hide hitting the dirt as you rope it on larger hides.It will catch and bunch up at the tie off point off the ground.
By larger hides I mean anything above 15 to 20 square foot.Smaller hides below that usually don't bunch up any.
I measure my hides by laying the hides on square foot tiles on the floor in my basement.
(https://i.imgur.com/GXpIYhC.jpg)
After braining/wringing/and twisting the hide I use the rope again to stretch it fully length wise and cross wise and then back to it's natural shape.Braining them usually only takes about an hour of soaking in the warm brain slurry.
(https://i.imgur.com/iG1Cq6O.jpg)
I would like to note here that everything I do to the rawhide after braining through these stages is to stretch the hide to it's maximum before redunking into the warm brain slurry.....ie....stretching the fibers out to accept the brain oils.Especially the spine,neck,and hip areas.It's the reason why they come out soft from just 1 roping.Even the large hides.
(https://i.imgur.com/II9kjfv.jpg)
Kinda wish I had some more beaver hides here myself.Love the dense fur on those guys.Look forward to seeing the work you get done and the process along the way.
To smoke a beaver hide I have it laced in hoop and have it suspended horizontally above a smudge fire in a small shed instead of in a tipi.No need to smoke those aluminum sulfated hides unless you want to give it a light brown appearance.Does'nt hurt anything.
A walnut stain is an option also boiling the husks and reducing the water content.Aluminum sulfate tanned hides just need a little scuffing and they will return soft again after drying from being wet.
It's tan has a very long shelf life of usage.
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Thanks for the photos ED. Just wanted to square up a few things. I only salted the coon and beaver as I understand it would help from the hair slipping. So far so good on that. Gave the coon I brained and the beaver a good washing first with dawn then rinsed quite a few times, Let the fur partially dry then brained the coon and put the Orange bottle juice on the beaver. Coon came out pretty good. It's the one i had the photos of. Just gave the beaver another coating of the juice as it still had some stiff spots in the thicker areas. The sides or thinner spots are great. Guess it takes more juice than I thought. We'll see in a couple days. I'll post a photo if I ever get it finished.
Not sure if it will need smoked with the juice I'll have to find out. The deer hides I have done have been smoked. I brained those.
Ed thanks again for sharing your knowledge and wisdom.
Piddler
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Yes getting the proposed hair on tanned hides dry setting the hair is a priority with salt if you want to save freezer space.Freezing them won't make the hair slip either though.
You'll get that beaver finished.Sounds like your doing fine.Be sure to show what you get done.
I got a friend about 30 miles away that likes to beaver trap yet.Don't know if he still beaver traps yet or not any more.
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Talked to my beaver trapping friend.Said he has'nt trapped for a while because of the low fur prices,but said he would if I made him a beaver tail wallet.Might take him up on that trade.
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BowEd,
I tried tanning a beaver tail once. Used a product called dixie tan but had poor results. Now that I'm retired and have more time I may try again.
brian
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I think the proper way to tan beaver tails is to take the scales off first.That's done using hydrated lime just like bucking a deer hide to remove it's hair.The leather of the fleshed beaver tail will swell just like a deer hide.
Then you can scrape them off.They are the part on a beaver tail that will make them stiff.
You'll see the pattern of the scales in the leather also after removing the scales.
After that neutralize the tail soaking a half hour or so in vinegar water.A cup to a couple gallons of water.Then a few clear water risings.You'll notice the change in the leather.
People usually bark tan them then after that,but other tans then might work also.
It's a fair amount of work.Mostly tedious.
Note......Before tanning I would let it dry tacked or stapled out after neutralizing it.Then I would sand at the base of the tail where it's a lot thicker than the rest of the leather and even up that thickness some.That would help in making certain items.Then rehydrate it.
A strong tanning solution in a 5 gallon bucket will tan it in a few days....or if your using the orange bottle stuff repeated applications will probably work.
Scuff it around with your hands to soften.Neats foot oil can help too.
For stuff like knife sheaths,rawhide envelopes or grips on bow handles leaving the scales on should work fine.For a knife sheath though I would glue the dried beaver tail to some thicker rawhide like beef rawhide or thick veg tanned leather using contact cement.
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BowEd,
Thanks for the info.
take care,
brian
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My friend is a lot like me with his views to wildlife.I know he's trapped many beaver in his lifetime.He just wants a remembrance of the animal he devoted so much time to pursuing.
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My thoughts about a wallet for my friend out of beaver tail are this.
I'd be better off to buy a thin vegetable tanned wallet kit and contact cement glue the dried beaver tail [which will be very thin dried] to it while edge lacing the whole project [beaver tail to veg tanned leather] together.Then wax and oil it for a finish on it.
As opposed to trying to vegetable tan a beaver tail and make a wallet out of it.
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ED,
I'll send you a PM tomorrow. May have a tail I don't have a real good use for if you are in need of one. I saved a couple to make bow wraps.
Piddler
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To cover a wallet the tail needs to be at least 11" long by at least 5" to 6"" wide at it's widest to cover everything.That'll take a blanket beaver weighing a good 50#'s measuring at least 32" by 32".I spoke with Joe and it sounds like it's a deal for us to do in a trade after deer season.He says there's lots of beaver by him again nowadays after not trapping them for a few years.I'll skin the beaver and tail myself and keep everything else [hide and other side of tail] and he gets his beaver tail covered wallet.
I'll brain tan the hide later.
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OK. I thought you were in need of a beaver tail.
Piddler
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Thanks for the offer.I appreciate it.Show us the pictures of them.
I don't think either one of us are in a any hurry about the trade happening,but both want something out of the deal.Him a beaver wallet and me a brain tanned beaver hide.I think long ago Joe may even have a mounted beaver in his house or a rug at least.
Think we might go gun hunting to a gun shop by me here later.The shop by him got closed by the government.
I have an extra veg tanned beaver tail here too that is large enough for a wallet but wanted to save that for some bow handle grips.
I've sanded it to an even overall 1 to 2 ounce leather thickness.Should get 2 grips from this tail.
(https://i.imgur.com/bJ19B2V.jpg)
The lighter color shows where they need to be sanded.
(https://i.imgur.com/Kme4Dcg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mscetxa.jpg)
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ED, Here is a photo of what I have. Didn't really know how to do them so only one has some tan done to it. The others only dried.
Piddler
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And they are distorted and look really wide. Some day I'll figure out how to get a good photo posted.
Piddler
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Pictures are good.Nice looking set of tails.You've done a great job skinning and fleshing them first off and that's a must.It would'nt have hurt to tack them out while they dry to avoid curling.
You've got yourself some nice bow handle wraps there or for whatever else you might have in mind.For bow handle wraps not much sanding is needed if left in the raw stage which I'm sure you know.
Vegetable tanned tails tend to naturally thicken from the process so a little sanding is required to make use of all of the tail.If boughten they are quite expensive like this one.
I still say removing the scales and then tanning will get a pliable piece of beaver tail leather.
I'm no complete expert about everything but know enough to make what I want to look good when done.Your own standards rule the day here.
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Thanks ED, I'll make a handle wrap or something with them one day. Your info is always appreciated.
Piddler
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There's a lot of things out there to learn yet no matter who you are.
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Well lots of learning went into this one. Learned that the hides need thinned a lot down the back. Especially around the front shoulders and hip area. The belly turned out great right off the bat and is really soft. Had to reapply tanning solution on the center though. Still fairly soft but more rug like. Still need to trim the edges. Could work it some more but gonna stop on this one for a while and go hunting. Think bow shooting is hard on a shoulder. Definitely gonna thin the others before tanning. I picked the one with the worst fur to experiment with. Had some really strange spots of fur.
Piddler
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Looks pretty decent to me.I could make a hat from it....ha ha.Although I would need to hand stitch it.
When beaver are put up [that means skinned and fleshed properly] and dried to sell up north they are wiped with a paper towel number of times while drying to absorb the grease that sweats up along the way to drying.That helps a lot.I tumbled coons and coyotes here doing that.
Still a fair amount of grease is still dried into the hide on a beaver.Tannerys have chemicals that can soften those hides and other chemicals that will get rid of that grease.Then they can tan it.Thin it and soften it.All with automated equipment.
For the fella that wants to tan a greasy critter like a beaver for themselves salting a few times is the best degreaser and drier.That dried in grease into a hide makes it hard to rehydrate inhibiting the ability of tanning solutions or brain oils to penetrate.Then after stretching and drying thinning can be done.Then tanning [brain or chemical] can be done.Then softening.
It can take some practice.
Hunting season opens here soon too.
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Good luck to ya Ed and thanks for all the tips.
Piddler