Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: simk on July 15, 2022, 05:11:15 pm
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Hi Bowmakers
After I found out I have some indestructable stuff
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,71391.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,71391.0.html)
I thought about making a little high performance bow. I flattened the other half of the misterous yew log and backed with boo.
Designwise Mr Drake came in my mind. From what I've read about this Harry Drake I always have benn fascinated by this legendary archer.
I lent the basic design from him and tried to make a fast bow. I'm quite happy with almost 3" of reflex after shooting it a lot - only took about 2" set since glueup. I even brought it to the range and of course everybody shot it (A)
She's approx 59"ntn, 45#@26" and 400gramms.
Does anybody have more info about the early Drake bows? Some specs maybe of his yew selfbows? pics, maybe even a fulldraw pic? Doesen't seem to be many pics of the early days?
Cheers
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more
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thanx 4 watching
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That is a beautiful bow. After resting, how much reflex comes back after you unstring it?
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I havent exactly monitored sleek! But I checked again eyeballing I'd say 1 to 11/2"....maybe 2"...this is the current situation after photo and shooting today....probably will relax a little more.
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Id say I'd you can make the design so it takes maybe a half inch or less you would have a bow that could do well in flight. If you make another, make it wider with a not as wide bamboo backing. That should help on set.
I really do like that bow though. Very nice craftsmanship.
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Nice bow. Will be curious on the speed it gets!
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Sleek, the cross section is trapped significantly. I made it narrow because the originals were. Apart of making it a little wider I wouldnt know how to take it less set. Heat treating the belly sure is an option too but glued in reflex always dissappears after bending to 70%, its inevitable imho. I'd love to know your secrets and especially Harrys 🙃 still I'm quite ok with the outcome. What max speeds do you get from your bows, just curious? 🙃
Thanx Superdav, the 10gpp was somewhere in the mid 180's, the light one, approx 6 gpp 215 was my best shot 👍
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Gorgeous lil bow...
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Sleek, the cross section is trapped significantly. I made it narrow because the originals were. Apart of making it a little wider I wouldnt know how to take it less set. Heat treating the belly sure is an option too but glued in reflex always dissappears after bending to 70%, its inevitable imho. I'd love to know your secrets and especially Harrys 🙃 still I'm quite ok with the outcome. What max speeds do you get from your bows, just curious? 🙃
Thanx Superdav, the 10gpp was somewhere in the mid 180's, the light one, approx 6 gpp 215 was my best shot 👍
When it comes to laminated bows I don't have many secrets unfortunately. I haven't made many but I do plan to start getting more into it. 180s is really good speed. I think my self bow that broke the flight record was in that range. My fastest self bow so far hit 187fps but I couldn't repeat it so it may have been a fluke.
Your bow is faster than than I would have guessed it to be. It would be nice to see what that bow can do in flight. Do you have a location you can shoot it?
What state do you live in out if curiosity?
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Nice job, handsome bow... just gotta make the right arrow now ::)
Del
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Sleek, altough I'd love to try, real flightshooting is a very complex thing and hard to find a place in tiny Switzerland, where I live. Shooting the chrono is easy and imho conclusive when it comes to the bow itself, excluding the archers and arrowmakers talent. Shooting the 10gpp somehow seems a little boring too. Most of my bows are very close in the 180's. Also 10gpp imho does not justice to many bow designs...its just a random standard. When it comes to lighter arrows we will see big differences tough. I find this very interesting and often try to find out the real max speed of a bow....altough I havent light enough arrows yet. I like bomaking, making arrows seems boring 🙃
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That’s a beauty for sure and real good speeds. It’s a contender with the right arrow and release I assure you. Low in mass weight. It does need 5 more pounds of draw weight though. Arvin
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Beautiful bow Simon. The grain in that yew is spectacular!
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Sweet bow :)
Thicker is quicker - rarely hear people mentioning the increased return speed of a thicker (equal drawlength/weight) limb. Think of a tuning fork.
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Sweet looking bow. That is a ridiculous speed for a 45#er...
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Sleek, altough I'd love to try, real flightshooting is a very complex thing and hard to find a place in tiny Switzerland, where I live. Shooting the chrono is easy and imho conclusive when it comes to the bow itself, excluding the archers and arrowmakers talent. Shooting the 10gpp somehow seems a little boring too. Most of my bows are very close in the 180's. Also 10gpp imho does not justice to many bow designs...its just a random standard. When it comes to lighter arrows we will see big differences tough. I find this very interesting and often try to find out the real max speed of a bow....altough I havent light enough arrows yet. I like bomaking, making arrows seems boring 🙃
If you have a bow you would like tested at the salt flats, let me know. I don't know what shipping would cost, but if you can get the bow to the states I'd be happy to shoot it for you. I don't know exactly but I believe my self bow record also broke the simple composite record. This bow qualifies for simple composite and is close in performance and poundage to mine at the same draw weight. It may have a good chance. Just something to consider if you like.
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Thank you very much sleek! This is a beautiful and generous offer. I did not build this bow for the flats actually. It was a quick build and I did not spend too much time for the tillering. But It's back now to well over 3" reflex again and I think its just extraordinary wood. Not sure weather I have another nice piece of that log nor time to make a new one. So I will talk to the bow again, put a spell on her make a 2nd tuning stage with love and caress and dial it again, this time @50# @ 26" or 27" and a tad lighter in mass. If this all works out I will send it to you with joy.
Cheers
and thanx everybody!
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Thank you very much sleek! This is a beautiful and generous offer. I did not build this bow for the flats actually. It was a quick build and I did not spend too much time for the tillering. But It's back now to well over 3" reflex again and I think its just extraordinary wood. Not sure weather I have another nice piece of that log nor time to make a new one. So I will talk to the bow again, put a spell on her make a 2nd tuning stage with love and caress and dial it again, this time @50# @ 26" or 27" and a tad lighter in mass. If this all works out I will send it to you with joy.
Cheers
and thanx everybody!
Standing by to see what you are able to do. I wouldn't draw the bow past 26. My arrows only allow for a 26 inch draw. I will use the arrow that I broke the record with on your bow as well, to give it the best chance. Any medals the bow wins I will send back to you with the bow, and I'm certain you can expect some as long as the weather is good :)
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Please sleek, don't talk about medals before anything happend ;D And it's a beginners bow too...
I talked to the bow, exercised her and took some measurings. I roughly estimated her to be around 45# - I was wrong - I didn't use the scale for the tillering...it was just a feeling :) scale now says its only 42# in fact ....lol...its good for the speeds I measured but bad for the contest now. Lets see if I can bring it to 45#+. Before the exercising I measured 81mm reflex, after 60. This makes around 6/8" set right after unstringing. Finding a tiny fret is really surprising and annoying of course..., not visible in the tiller as some kind of hinge. will try to make a reliable bow for 50 arrows ;D
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A fraction more outer limb bend for longevity. Or perhaps bend concentrated a little closer to the handle and sharper recurves for a maxed out flight version. What is the width taper like? The hard thing with these 'record breaker' bows is finding that piece of extra special wood to build it from.....or just use horn sinew haha ;)
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...as a tribute to the narrow limbs its parallel until past midlimbs. I'm deeply in the reflecting phase now, trying to find out to find the best highway to hell 🤗 longlivity is no option.
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Could get interesting at the flats this year. Sleek I’m sending you the short bow. My arrows will be colorful this year. Parrot fletchings. Can’t wait.
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Hey Guys!
Did my homework, but didn't succeed. Raised draweight to maybe 46# but of course ran into various issues. I learnt so much from this first intentional flightbow, but maybe better keep this one as a wannabe and make a better one - close to max drawweight for next year. I then practiced my flight release today a little with two bows. Looking at the pics from the video I did draw it to around 27" and constantly got speeds over 220. Made at least 10 shots with this one. Best was one of the frist ones, 224fps (when the cam didnt work of course 🤣) and I did a proper 26" draw also. Then it slightly broke down and I started drawing 27" to see the nice numbers. After about 10 fulldraws the bow was 43# again.
I think I could make this bow ready for a few more similar shots but I also have tiny frets in two spots...one near a plug and one on the edge. Still I didnt really brake down so far and probably would even be capable for a few shots on 28". Still I dont think it would be a good idea to send a underweight bow with issues to the flats....alotough of course the comparison would be extremly interesting. Also it would be very interesting to hear even more opinions and critics on this bow, especially from those with flight experience 🤝
Cheers
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Your craftsmanship leaves little to be desired. I'm certain if you went wider on the belly and left the backing the same width you would have a bow that didn't break down. Don't worry about mass so much, a little extra mass hurts less than set.
Don't be afraid to stray from the old narrow designs, there is a reason those old records are broken. You make a bow that holds the performance you had initially and I will shoot it for you at the flats.
As for that bow, nock a few pounds off and use it as a nice target bow. That bow really is a quick one, just a little too heavy. Outstanding job anyway man. I look forward to seeing more from you :)
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Thank you sleek. Of course the belly on this on is substantially wider than the back - this didnt kept it from breaking down a little from initial performance. Imho every wooden bow breaks down a little before setteling in. This one just felt little like a dragster racing on which you have to replace engine for every run. Sure was very interesting to build on the very edge.
This bow now is given a second life as a target bow,....as suggested by you. It fully fullfilled its purpose as an object of study and was a great teacher.
I will make a new one, a better one, and if you like it it will shoot the 2023 contest. Thank you so much and best regards. Wish you success in September!
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Thank you sleek. Of course the belly on this on is substantially wider than the back - this didnt kept it from breaking down a little from initial performance. Imho every wooden bow breaks down a little before setteling in. This one just felt little like a dragster racing on which you have to replace engine for every run. Sure was very interesting to build on the very edge.
This bow now is given a second life as a target bow,....as suggested by you. It fully fullfilled its purpose as an object of study and was a great teacher.
I will make a new one, a better one, and if you like it it will shoot the 2023 contest. Thank you so much and best regards. Wish you success in September!
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I am standing by to watch your progress :) I think you made the right call on turning it into a target bow. I wish I knew more about composite bows, I would love to help you out, but you probably know more than me. Especially on getting those fantastic glue lines.
Feel free to shoot me a message if you ever want to chat.
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Thanks Sleek! I will pm you then.
The gluelines of course also are a learning process. For this one I used rubberband only. Sometimes I combine rubberband and clamps. Most important of course is preparation of the glue surfaces, the right tools and machinery can help.
Before tillering it down now I shot 10gpp from the machine. I got 191fps @27" draw. Its not overly fast....not much faster than my laminated longbows...but these then only do around 200-210 with the light arrows @28". Cant really extrapolate speeds from 10gpp to lower arroweights...this more seems a question of design; shorter bows seem to get more speed on light arrows, but thats nothing new :) ...better dry fire speed :) the other big factor of course is early string tension aka reflex and a little design and weight reduction. Close to centershot isn't a bad thing either.Jm2c.
Cheers