Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Pat B on August 10, 2022, 06:52:36 pm
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This will be my version of an ancient 7000 year old Hjarno bow found in fjord in Denmark. I got a nice rock elm stave from Bow Ed that is a perfect fit for this bow. Thanks Ed. Mark(Mad Max) posted a drawing with the dimensions. This is basically what I'm following. Here's a few early pics...
(https://i.imgur.com/HAkCGpd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Am3xFvH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VBdP46H.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CfhgthE.jpg)
...and here is the drawing of the bow...
(https://i.imgur.com/8IcbwuW.jpg)
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Really interested in this one Pat, thanks for posting
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Interesting! Are you following the drawings or will you make it longer? If you stick to the dimensions, I am curious to hear if the handle will be stiff or not...
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Aksel, the stave is 65.5" long and I'm using it end to end. The working sections of the limbs will have sinew added and through the handle. Like most of the bows I build the working limbs will work right up to the handle or slightly into the handle. This won't be historically accurate but I'm using the drawing as a guild line.
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Is there any indication the original was sinewed?
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Stuckinthemud: There is no evidence of any sinewed west European bows as far as I know.
Pat: Nice project, looking forward to see how it goes!
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Stick, the climate of western Europe probably wouldn't be appropriate for sinew backed bows. Sinew backed bows are more a product of arid countries or areas.
Ever since I first saw the Holmgaard and Molli style bows I thought it would be cool to use sinew on the working limbs. I've seen a few here on PA in the last year or so so I thought I'd try it. Kind a crossing of cultures and time.
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It’s one of the bees in my bonnet. Eastern Mediterranean cultures used sinew backed bows 1000s of years before Christ, so why wouldn’t Western Europeans? Protecting sinew with bark is a very ancient technique and the advantages of sinew might encourage some experimentation. In later periods sinewed crossbows were used across the length and breadth of the continent so the unsuitable climate argument is one I struggle with.
It is a really cool project though and I am looking forward to seeing how it goes
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wow thats gonna be nice,, )P( :)
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Nice project pat. That looks like a great design. I’ll be watching this!
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Stuck, I appreciate that bee in your bonnet and thank you for the historic info. I stand corrected.
I'm doing a little each day. Yesterday I got to an early floor tiller stage and will head back down to the shop this morning. We've had rain for the last 15 days, anywhere from .01" to yesterday's 4.06" so our humidity level is through the roof. Even though the shop has a dehumidifier I'm concerned about the M/C of the stave so I don't want to strain it too much now plus after an hour in the shop yesterday I was soaked to the bone with sweat. I'm really anticipating fall and winter these days.
More updates later.
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First straightening to get things basically aligned. I'm sure there will be more.
(https://i.imgur.com/6YMDVMu.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kShiQs2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QGVycq6.jpg)
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Going to enjoy this, thanks for posting
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The design looks like a möllegabet-stylish bow.
Wide limbs with needle-tips.
Very nice - also my standard-design for wooden bows with straight limbs.
Also going to enjoy this - I like to see how you interpretation of this kind of design will work.
Greetz
Cord
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The initial straightening went well plus I added a little bit of back set.
More to come...
(https://i.imgur.com/WiQQPXM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vdZYLj4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GKyBwDD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zfKMwRT.jpg)
Cord, the Molle, the Holme and this bow are similar styles from the same region of the world.
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Looks great so far, Pat. The photos and descriptions are great! Looking forward to seeing this stave become a bow. Thanks for taking us along on your build.
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I got her on the long string today. You can see she needs work. The limb on the left is stronger so I need to get that down closer to the right limb.
The black on the levers was to help me visualize the working limbs without the distraction of the stiffer levers
(https://i.imgur.com/KgA0Dso.jpg)
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It’s one of the bees in my bonnet. Eastern Mediterranean cultures used sinew backed bows 1000s of years before Christ, so why wouldn’t Western Europeans? Protecting sinew with bark is a very ancient technique and the advantages of sinew might encourage some experimentation. In later periods sinewed crossbows were used across the length and breadth of the continent so the unsuitable climate argument is one I struggle with.
It is a really cool project though and I am looking forward to seeing how it goes
Yes I've used authentic finishes on hornbows and used them day in day out in the rain and humidity. The climate may not be 'optimal' but a bit of humidty doesn't spoil a sinew backed bow here.
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I got a little more done today. Got the limbs a bit more even...
(https://i.imgur.com/XqMzT4E.jpg)
...by using Eric Krewson's "Tillering Gizmo"...
(https://i.imgur.com/CPCL85f.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CsyLKa8.jpg)
For those not familiar with this very cool and effective tool it works by leaving pencil marks where the limbs are not bending enough...
(https://i.imgur.com/NOZEDoz.jpg)
...and you can see where the pencil lines are not even everywhere. This gizmo also shows you if there is a twist in the limb or the scraping is not done evenly...
(https://i.imgur.com/yl2JGkJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1CWiZny.jpg)
...more to come...
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She's sitting at 41#@26" now and the tiller looks pretty good. Today I heat treated the belly on one limb and added a little reflex too...
(https://i.imgur.com/Acixbri.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gvkJ7hR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7z39XST.jpg)
...more to come...
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Looking great pat. I’m watching this!
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Good attempt Pat with that elm.It would serve you well to extend the ever increasing reflex out on your levers also.
They will flatten out and appear stiffer at full draw then.
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Ed, I was gonna do that but will wait until I'm a little further along. I've thought about recurving or heavy reflex or just a mild reflex. I'm thinking more of a mild reflex at this point.
Thanks Dave. Hope I don't disappoint.
Heading down to the basement to cook the other limb this morning. With all the rain we've been having rehydration shouldn't be a problem but I'll wait a few days before straining either limb.
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It's best to get it done before bracing it.Otherwise your tiller shape will change doing it after you started tillering.
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I got the other limb heat treated and did a little lateral straightening to boot...
(https://i.imgur.com/6NC6vru.jpg?1)
Then reflexed and heat treated the outer working portion of the limb after the inner limb cooled. I also brought the working limb and lever in line across and through the limb...
(https://i.imgur.com/sYhgkWg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mK6nSVi.jpg?1)
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I got most of the heat bending and straightening done. Will probably be a bit more tweaking to do but not now. I have to say, elm sure reacts well to heat corrections. In a few days I'll recheck the tiller, make adjustments then it will be a while before I start adding the sinew. Here is the end results of the last few days work...
(https://i.imgur.com/2M5H83r.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7W59bFM.jpg?1)
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That’s gonna be a nice bow pat.
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Thanks, Dave. I'm looking forward to the rest of the build and seeing how the finished bow comes out. :OK :BB
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I got off my boney butt and did some more work on this bow. I did a little tillering to get both limbs fairly even for now. Then I clamped the bow to a one limb reflex form to heat treat again and do some lateral adjustment at the same time. I'll try to get to the other limb tomorrow or the next day. Here are a few pics...
(https://i.imgur.com/mtVkKSG.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aogRX9g.jpg)
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lookin great,, beautiful :)
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Love to see them at that stage, holding the reflex. Looks like a shooter already.
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So far so good Pat (-P
Bjrogg
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Your moving along nicely Pat.
Your right the more reflex induced the more critical the tip alignment.
That elm ought to be good and dry by now.
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It is slow going for me the last few years. And I agree that tip alignment is critical. Now I'm trying to get everything lined up so I can start adding the sinew. I like doing this during the winter while the R/H is low. Ed, I'm sure the elm is dry. I can feel it in my rasping and scraping.
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just went down and worked the other limb, heat treating, deflexing and lining things up.
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Can’t wait to see it bending. Looks good so far.
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Very nice, Pat. Thank you for showing us. Jawge
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After taking bue off of the form I tweaked the tiller a but more...
(https://i.imgur.com/8oAw2n1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/S2SJ6gN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NovtV57.jpg)
then put her back of another reflex form and gave the belly a good heat treating and made slight lateral adjustments...
(https://i.imgur.com/NCZletP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qUOfDQx.jpg)
After I do the other limb she'll be ready for adding the sinew backing. Once the sinew dries well I'll tweak the tipper a bit more and do a final shaping on the tips. Typically my sinew process takes a few months but I will document that process as well.
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Is that heat treating pat? Looking great!
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Yeah, at least the way I do it. Elm doesn't seem to darken much doing it this way.
I hand hold the heat gun about 1" above the belly and move it back and forth over a 6" area. When it darkens I move out to the next 6" heating until it darkens but also go back over the previous 6" then on out the limb and keep coming back over the previous heated sections. I do this with the limb held in reflex.
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I found it does'nt bother elm to give it a really deep heat treatment.I heat treat 1/2" at a time/3 to 4 inches away until dark brown from tip to handle fade.I round off the corners of the belly before heat treatment also.
Cutting cross sections on tests show the heat treatment well over 1/8" deep.
At what poundage are you at now before sinewing?1000 grains of sinew [or a a good 1/8" thick] will raise it at least 10 pounds.
Also sinewing in the winter time I tiller it to a few pounds over also.That way in the summer and early fall shooting it's just about right.
That's if you let the sinew cure a proper amount of time also before tillering.
You got a good candidate there with this bow.Tiller looks great.
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Ed, I haven't tested the weight lately and it really doesn't matter at this point. I can tell by floor tillering it will be lighter than a hunting weight bow. If I can get my finished sinew backed bow to come out at 40# to 45# I'll be happy. I will also be adding a thin rawhide backing over the sinew. My main concern is getting the overall bow tillered well and adding a good sinew layer to it. I can still go back and heat treat more before sinewing.
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I found it does'nt bother elm to give it a really deep heat treatment.I heat treat 1/2" at a time/3 to 4 inches away until dark brown from tip to handle fade.I round off the corners of the belly before heat treatment also.
Cutting cross sections on tests show the heat treatment well over 1/8" deep.
At what poundage are you at now before sinewing?1000 grains of sinew [or a a good 1/8" thick] will raise it at least 10 pounds.
Also sinewing in the winter time I tiller it to a few pounds over also.That way in the summer and early fall shooting it's just about right.
That's if you let the sinew cure a proper amount of time also before tillering.
You got a good candidate there with this bow.Tiller looks great.
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This is similar to what I do too Ed. Good advise here. Elm is great candidate for heat treatment. Add sinew after that you’ll have a screamer!
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Ed, I haven't tested the weight lately and it really doesn't matter at this point. I can tell by floor tillering it will be lighter than a hunting weight bow. If I can get my finished sinew backed bow to come out at 40# to 45# I'll be happy. I will also be adding a thin rawhide backing over the sinew. My main concern is getting the overall bow tillered well and adding a good sinew layer to it. I can still go back and heat treat more before sinewing.
In your picture I seen you had this bow close to your full draw tillering.Personally I don't like to stress the wood hardly at all before sinewing.I try to not go past 20" drawing it.Then extrapulating a ball park estimate within 5#'s of what the draw weight will be at 28" or your full draw.Then with the knowledge of knowing what depth sinew will give the bow I can usually get within 5#'s of full draw weight while needing to remove very little wood from the belly while tillering.
I think it gives the bow prospect the best chance to be a very efficient bow broken in.
I've found reheat treating numerous times does'nt actually help much.Once it's stressed the stress goes deeper than just the surface on the belly along with the stretching on the back.Even though sinew goes over the back.
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Looking great Pat. Thanks for taking the time to put this on here. Always love to your builds.
Matt
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Ed, I haven't tested the weight lately and it really doesn't matter at this point. I can tell by floor tillering it will be lighter than a hunting weight bow. If I can get my finished sinew backed bow to come out at 40# to 45# I'll be happy. I will also be adding a thin rawhide backing over the sinew. My main concern is getting the overall bow tillered well and adding a good sinew layer to it. I can still go back and heat treat more before sinewing.
In your picture I seen you had this bow close to your full draw tillering.Personally I don't like to stress the wood hardly at all before sinewing.I try to not go past 20" drawing it.Then extrapulating a ball park estimate within 5#'s of what the draw weight will be at 28" or your full draw.Then with the knowledge of knowing what depth sinew will give the bow I can usually get within 5#'s of full draw weight while needing to remove very little wood from the belly while tillering.
I think it gives the bow prospect the best chance to be a very efficient bow broken in.
I've found reheat treating numerous times does'nt actually help much.Once it's stressed the stress goes deeper than just the surface on the belly along with the stretching on the back.Even though sinew goes over the back.
This is what I’ve been finding as well. +1 for what Ed said. I usually get just past brace then sinew it. Ed’s right on this from what I’ve noticed in my bows. I stick with 50% wood/25%sinew/25%horn. On wood and sinew only bows it depends on the width of the limbs but generally a standard flat bow 60%wood/40% sinew by thickness. Stressing the wood prior to sinew puts more stress on the sinew then there needs to be. Having a balance share of stress on the combination of sinew glued to the unstressed wood core makes for a better more efficient bow in the end. Looking good so for pat. Lookin forward to rest of this build.
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That elm is some good bow wood Pat.Look forward to seeing what you get from this design.
When tillering there's a certain weight I want at 20" that will conform to a 45 to 50 pound bow after heat treatment.That's usually around 32 pounds + or -.
Most all good dry bow wood will not show stress at that draw length unless badly tapered or too narrow for design.
Every pound or two less than that will lose close to 5 pounds of full draw weight.
Knowing the thickness of sinew I need I then can put that amount onto the bow to get my preferred full draw weight.
Like Dave said percentage overall wise.
50/25/25 percentage core/horn/sinew is a good more stable percentage because of the thicker stabilising core.Going 33/33/33 percentage will be more unstable.More time consuming and having a wild child on your hands for a while because horn is a lot more elastic than wood,but it's still doable.Using a peg board helps settle them down.The added benefit of thicker percentage horn will help for less set also.
It's still a little bit of a guessing game but it'll put the bow very close to what is desired.Being slightly overweight is good though.It leaves room for fine tuning the tiller.
This works for me on bows from 58" long to 68" long.I'm sure going shorter might change some of the estimates.
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Ed, I took your advice and went back and re-tempered the bow on the reflex form darkening the color a good bit. Here is where she is right after removing her from the form...
(https://i.imgur.com/hFdNKqz.jpg)
I have not strained her yet since tempering. We have been in a wet period for a couple of days with a couple more rainy days to come. Once we dry out a bit I'll check the tiller out to 20" then prepare for sinewing. Her overall length is 65"t/t with about 18" to 20"of working limb on each side. In the end the t/t length will be shortened by maybe 2" after I shape the tips. I've been thinking about how I want to shape the tips to reduce as much weight as possible without weakening them or losing the lateral stability.
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You are getting closer now, Pat. Don't screw it up :)
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You know me all too well, Chris. (--)
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I'm working on a lumpy yew Hill style self bow that I'm waiting to knock me in the head!
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Don't forget the pics...the bow and your broken head. ;)
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I dont think you need to check the tiller out to 20,, put the sinew on without straining it at all,, that being said,,if you are more comfortable checking it to 20,, I think the only difference would be in my head,,, (-S
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Brad. I am currently working on a relaxed Scythian style horn bow that I just placed my first sinew layer on. I did not brace this one or draw it out to 20” like I have done before. Instead I carefully measured thickness with calipers on both limbs to be as close as I can get them. I’ve done sinew backing on bows from fully shot in to just at brace height. What I’ve seem is that the less strain you can place on the core prior to sinew the better. That being said I do agree with Ed that it’s worthwhile doing some mild pre bending to sort out most if not all tillering issues prior to sinew. Going to 20” on a good clean piece of wood that’s been heat treated (white woods) or knot free defect free Osage or yew for example will save a lot of tweaking and time later and won’t hurt the wood core really if bend looks good. I’ve had good luck going to brace or just past it to end up with fast bows that recover well. Stressing the wood core is like using substandard wood as your core. Ok maybe not the same thing exactly but imagine you take a fully shot in bow that has settle in at it’s final draw weight and cast. It’s reached it equilibrium of stresses on both the belly and back. By adding sinew as a backing to such a bow you will more then likely see increased poundage and cast if the sinew was placed on properly allowed to cure and dry and not overly done with glue to weight it down. What I’m suggesting and I think Ed as well is that if you were to take the same bow PRIOR to being shot in and settled in with all the accompanying stresses of a fully shot in bow and then add your sinew you would have a better performing bow in my opinion and experience.
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Correcto Dave....It makes a difference in the testing and hitting the draw weight dead nuts.Most of the detailed work is done before sinewing.
It's hard to convey all the details to someone unless they've done it themselves.If they are willing they can learn.
With a lot of reflex making sure tip alignment is correct is critical.
Removing lots of material from an over weight bow loses all the heat treatment.
That may not be critical using osage but with other woods it can be.It's part of the adventure of making bows.
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the sinew always tricks me and comes in way to heavy,, or heavier than I expected,, just doesnst take much wood,, when you adding sinew,,, :)
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Sinew is an art on its own. I’m still learning it’s subtle nuances after several sinewed bows. Guys like Ed have it down more and I’ve learned from him. He’s generous with his knowledge. I think it’s a good way to be and it helps guys like myself who in the beginning was making mistakes with sinew. I’m at the point now that I have less surprises and getting more of a system down. It takes a while for sure and it takes just getting to it and not getting caught up in wasting materials I guess.
Sorry Pat I feel like we are hijacking your bow thread! Maybe we should start a new thread on applying sinew??? Ed you up for that???
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One thing I'm not into is explaining to skepticism when I know what's going on at both ends of the subject.
The hooks of individuals bringing up disingenuous subjects don't catch me any more.
Pat will sinew his bow the way he wants.It'll be a durable well shooting bow for what he wants.
A person can explain it but doing it is the best teacher if that's what they want.
They can PM me or you if they want.
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this bow starting out great, will be fun to see it evolve,,I love making sinew bows, and enjoy watching the process of others as well,, :)
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Dave, I'm enjoying the info that you and Ed are sharing. Maybe starting another thread would be a good idea anyway so the conversations can continue uninterrupted.
I've built 5 or 6 sinew backed bows and learned a little more with each one. The moose sinew for this bow was sent to me by a friend from Norway. The bow design came from a Danish relic from a 7000 years ago found in a fjord in Denmark. I don't know if this design was ever combined with sinew but I thought the design would be cool with a sinew backing. Ever since I first saw a Holmy/Molle style bows I thought it would be interesting to add sinew to the working portion of the limbs.
The Norwegian name for moose is "elg" and for bow is "bue" so this bow will be named Elg Bue.
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Way cool pat. I like that name. I love molle style bows. I think they are just a great bow design and have very nice lines and curves that catch the eye. They function very well too.
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You got her under control Pat.
I appreciate the sinew information contained in this thread. It’s something I have been wanting to do for awhile, but just never got around to.
If I get some time I have one I’d like to sinew back. I can already tell I did a few things that probably won’t help its performance, but I think it’s still a decent candidate for sinew.
I might be asking more questions about sinew and starting a thread on the bow I’m talking about in the near future.
Bjrogg
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Linked name references to materials for sentimental reasons.I get it.It all had to start somewhere right?
The potential of this design can only be realized by pushing the envelope with it.
There's a stock house full of sinew application threads on here.From PatM,Bownarra,Marc,others or me if someone is really serious about it.
To get the full effect of it all,doing it till you get it right is the only way.Watching it being done is'nt enough.
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Pat how did you process the sinew,, I dont think I saw,, how long is moose sinew,,? will you use hide glue or knox
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Brad, when I got the sinew it was in it's hard, dried stage. I used the stump I use for punch out stitching holes in leather and some of my leather working tools to pound the tendons and pliers and other tools to separate it into fibers...
(https://i.imgur.com/95811gT.jpg)
this is my cobblers hammer from when I was a sandal maker back in the 70's and pliers and awls.
(https://i.imgur.com/bgC6uMQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gUyaSzQ.jpg)
Something else I haven't done with other sinew backed bows will be to comb out the sinew bundles before applying the sinew. I'll post pics of the rest of the process as I move along.
Ed, I agree there is a lot of info here on this forum from over the years about sinew backing bows from you and the others you mentioned. I also realize there are other Holmy/Molle style bows that have recently been posted here with sinew backing. I enjoy posting my methods to help others that aren't experts at any of these processes realize that if I can do it so can they. The extent that anyone gets involved in these processes it up to them. For me, I like the fact that I can do all these things, even though not expertly, so it might help someone else be able to at least try. I've never been an expert at any of these things related to "primitive" archery but for me it's always been keep it as simple as possible but still be effective. Having people here on PA that are "experts" is such a great gift for every member and is icing on the cake for lack of a better analogy.
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that is some beautiful long sinew,, gonna work great,, I have never combed any of mine,, so will be interesting to see how that goes
whenever I tried to comb mine,, it seemed like alot was wasted so I stopped,, or the pieces got to small,, so hope this will inspire me to try again, it does look so much better when the threads are more fine,, and not to open a can of worms,, but I think there is little difference in the performance,, ;D
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For me I like to get my sinew fibers combed out to fine hair like strands. I use a stiff wire brush or a dog brush steel. I separate the similar length fibers into bundles and weight them and place them into bags to keep them organized in length. I use them all. I’ll use the shorter ones for the middle section handle area to cap the ends of the limb bundles laid prior. I like to wash with dawn dish soap well to get all oils out then place in tubs of water to keep wet. I then take measured weighted bundles and comb out well in parallel strands on a clean surface. I then dunk the bundle a few times each time squeezing out excess glue just prior to laying down on the bow. Prior to laying down though it’s important to size coat the core very well with very thin glue. This is a critical step in my opinion. The bow I’m doin now has 10 coats of very thin bladder/hide glue. About 5% glue. Basically water thin glue light amber coloured glue. I groove my core with a fine toothed hacksaw blade or a 20tpi blade with vertical grooves. I then do the sizing coats. The core is heated till warm using radiant heat prior to the first couple size coats. I let each coat dry after painting each coat on with a brush. I keep going with subsequent coats until the surface is dried shiny appearance and saturated with thin glue. Once the sizing is done and dry usually a day or so I prepare my weighted bundle layout. I measure by weight each bundle to keep the limbs equal as I can. I use 30% glue which is a mix hide and sturgeon bladder glue for laying down my bundles. I use warm water to smooth out when on the bow. I paint a final coat of 30% glue to let it dry. Hope this helps someone out there out.
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That'll work Dave and the best way to stay out of trouble in all phases of your description.
I might add using PatM's method of stripping leg sinew while wet reduces waste considerably.If it is used and applied onto the bow at that time.To let it dry to a hard cordy stage leads to a not very smooth finished work.
Dry stripped leg sinew will lead to a nice fluffy state that absorbs hide glue readily and softens nicely for a smooth sinew job.
Wrapping a couple of times after gelling with cotton strips and reheated and massaged nicely can help for a smoother job and less waste too.Applying the sinew in a crowned fashion for less mass and to make the sinew work more too.
A person learns how much pressure to use while squeezing excess glue from the sinew to have enough but not too much.
Keeping track of the weights of the hide glue and sinew apart from each other will give a person some reference while weighing the bow before sinewing first.I usually apply around 1/3 weight hide glue and 2/3rds sinew weight to a bow.
Final weighing will give you a good insight into whether your percentages were correct.
These things might sound like nonsense but thay are'nt.These are the fine tunings learned and needed for very successful sinew job work.
Pat in the past I've read claim after claim from you how putting sinew on a 64" bow is self negating for performance.Without actual proof it could be.Trying to dishearten others.When I've seen the contrary with my own eyes many times.
I say don't stifle the imagniation.
Now you think it's this moderate design that'll be the difference or that it makes more sense..Your in for another surprise.
I've been reluctant to spoon feed those on here that have no self intiative either.If anyone wants some help state all of the facts with pictures of their actions on the wood prior to the problem otherwise it's a mere guessing game.
A little self initiative can go a long way no matter how many bows a person has made.
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when is the sinew going on,, excited to see how thats gonna go with that amazing sinew you have,,, (-P
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Looking good so far Pat, watching for more . :)
Pappy
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Brad, as soon as I finish up the project I'm doing for the raffle table at the Tenn. Classic I'll be moving on to sinewing this bow. Paradigm shift. ;D
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Pat,, eta on sinew?
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Brad, no definite ETA but I'd say within a month.
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OK, Brad, here we go...
I've decided to switch over from working on the diorama of the Kodiak Bear Hunt to working on Elg Bue, my Hjarno attempt, a 7000 year old bow found in a fjord in Denmark. As all of you might remember(it's been so long) I've shaped and partially tillered this bow and was waiting for winter to add the sinew.
I started by cleaning my work bench in our sunroom(for me, this in clean).
(https://i.imgur.com/aClt1q3.jpg)
and gathered the sinew, glue, crock pot and other supplies for the process.
I set up my form with 2x4 blocks to support the tips...
(https://i.imgur.com/zF5NK1q.jpg)
I usually draw the handle down to the form so the stave is in more reflex for adding the sinewing. The last few times I've done this I would tie the handle down to the form with sinew and just add the sinew over this. This time I drilled a hole in the form at the center line, drilled a shallow hole in the back of the handle and used a screw and washers to draw the handle down to the form which gives me a more positive attachment than using the sinew to tie it down...
(https://i.imgur.com/tD2VwGj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/me2ueBP.jpg)
Once I get my head screwed on right I'll start the sinewing process. I'll keep you posted...
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Ok Pat I’ll be waiting. How long does the sinew process take??
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Yep I’m watching to Pat. Thanks for doing this for us to follow along.
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Applying the sinew only takes a few days to a week or so. I'll let it cure for a month or two after that.
OK Stick, I hope it helpful for you.
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I'll be starting the sinewing soon. I realized I had a bit more straightening to do first so yesterday I did that...
(https://i.imgur.com/OT3Fv5g.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AqDkAAi.jpg)
I also decided to rough up the back of the bow for better adhesion. I had some cambium remaining on the back and I didn't want it to impede the sinews adhesion. I got much of that remaining cambium off and scored it well over the remaining little bit. I use a Shinto rasp, dragged sideways along the back and upper edge of each limb and along the back of the handle...
(https://i.imgur.com/EQaboH7.jpg)
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looks great,, when can we shoot it,, (-S
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Brad, I'm hoping to start the sinew in the next day or two. I like to have all my stuff available and nearby including my mental condition. (-S
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sounds like a plan (-S
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After scrubbing the back of the bow with Dawn dish soap and rinsing with boiling water I sized the back with hot hide glue then a while later I started adding the sinew. Here is where I am now. Not as smooth as I hoped but once this sinew dries I'll sand the rough places and prepare for the second layer of sinew.
(https://i.imgur.com/GnmVxRk.jpg)
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it will look good when dry :)
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Brad, :OK I'll take another pic tomorrow morning.
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Very interesting Pat. How many layers of sinew are you planning on putting on? Thanks again for doing this.
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Looking good Pat 👍 Pappy
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I'll have to see after it dries some. At least 2 layers but maybe a 3rd if needed.
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Lookin good. How heavy was your first layer?
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Dave, it looked pretty heavy yesterday when I took the pic. Today, now that it's dried some not so much. I didn't weigh the sinew so if you are asking about weight I don't know.
We are having a rainy, overcast day so as it brightens up some I'll take another pic.
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Here is what it looks like this morning. It seems to dry pretty quickly but don't let that fool you. There is still lots of moisture in the sinew and the bow wood. I'll add sinew to the voids then see what it looks like.
(https://i.imgur.com/3HAyRJq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RsqLKkj.jpg)
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I went back and filled the voids left after the sinew dried. Once it dries again I'll check for any voids that may still be there and fill them too. I think this will be all of the sinew I add except for filling the voids. After it all dries well I'll sand the back some, size the sinew with more glue and add the rawhide covering. I use hide glue for that too. I'll give it about a month, maybe 2 to dry more then it will be time to check the tiller once more and adjust. I'll shape the tips(levers) and the handle then too.
Here are pics where I filled the voids...
(https://i.imgur.com/gLsROxV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Sd1dJsl.jpg)
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Pat my hat is off to you sir. I just don’t have the patience for sinew backed bows. Can’t wait to see the final bow.
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By 2:30 today the gap filled sinew were dry enough to blend in. That's why I prefer to sinew back bows in the winter.
(https://i.imgur.com/1sejTIh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nxJmPqj.jpg)
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I can tell the sinew is working this morning. Even only one day after adding the sinew to fill the voids and only 2 days after adding the bulk of the sinew I can slide a piece of paper under where the tips rest on the uprights of the form. The tips are lifting off the uprights. There is no pressure there at all. As the sinew continues to dry and shrink it may come off the uprights even more.
Since this is the first time I've made my own sinew glue I was worried about how strong it actually is. I won't really know until the bow has been shot in but so far I'm very encouraged. :OK
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I have tried making my own glue couple of times,, I put sinew on a juniper bow,, and was really pleased how strong it was,,
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Looking good, Pat.
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When I looked at the bow today sitting in our sunroom I noticed the tips have lifted off the reflex blocks. That sinew and sinew glue are doing their work.
Before adding the sinew with the limbs sitting on the blocks the handle was at least 1" above the form base...
(https://i.imgur.com/zF5NK1q.jpg)
Just a few minutes ago when I went and looked, this is what I saw...
(https://i.imgur.com/9v6nARZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/l31Y3XA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/B7grA9H.jpg)
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wow really lookin great (-S
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looking good Pat
cool project
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Looks great Pat. Thanks for taking the time to post the photos and descriptions.
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No problem, Will.
Thanks, Guy. Good to see you here. When are you coming back to the Classic?
Yeah, Brad. Pretty amazing. I wonder how much reflex it will hold after being shot in?
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well I dont know that wood,, but I will guess 3 inches, I think it gonna shoot great no matter how much it holds,,
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Nice Pat. I knew the sinew and hide glue would shrink, but had no idea it would do so much. Do you think it will shrink anymore?
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Cool
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Thanks, Guy. Good to see you here. When are you coming back to the Classic?
Sorry Pat not much chance of me being there again
my health limits such trips and now my ride there is not available dew to my brothers wife's health
The golden years ya know
It takes bars of gold to live them
I cherish all the moments there and all the folks
Have fun Y'all
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Bent, I hope not. It's gonna be hard enough to brace as it is.
I understand, Guy. Getting older ain't for sissies. I guess you'll have to settle on the pics we post after. Anyway, nice to know you are still keeping in touch. :OK
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No problem, Will.
Thanks, Guy. Good to see you here. When are you coming back to the Classic?
Yeah, Brad. Pretty amazing. I wonder how much reflex it will hold after being shot in?
I’d say you’ll likley end up keeping half of your current reflex. That’s been the case for me anyway. Looks like she’s gonna be a screamer!
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I'm hoping so, Dave.
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I think you dont know how much reflex you gonna end up with,,, you just put the sinew on, I stick with my 3 inhes :D
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The sinew seems to have stabilized at least it hasn't drawn the bow into any more reflex in the last few days. I want to study the sinew backing and add a bit more where needed. Once that dries I have some very thin rawhide that I want to cover the sinew with.
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Good to hear it pulled some reflex. That’s a good sign. Put more into the little voids then just filling them in. They will dry and shrink as they dry. You can always sand off any extra sinew to prep for rawhide. Just some ideas anyway. I’m sure it’ll turn out nice. Keep us posted.
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Thanks, Dave. I'll do that.
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Looking really good so far Pat :)
Pappy
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Thanks, Pappy. I'm trying to be patient but I sure wonna give her a try...but I won't, not yet.
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Great job Pat, you were always a master bowyer, anxious to see the finished bow. What draw weight are you shooting for.
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Nothing specific but around 45#, Kenneth. Thanks.
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I remember when I was a kid In our archery club that 30 pounds was a target bow and 45 was hunting weight. Nobody even talked about 60-65 except Fred Bear.
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Im 69 and appreciate the efficiency of a 45 pound bow,,with sinew and reflex shooting harder than bows I made and killed deer with at higher draw weights,,, Im sure this one gonna shoot hard,,
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I haven't done any more work lately but have been fighting off the flu since last Sunday and it kicked my butt. I'm recovering pretty well now and hope to get a bit more done soon.
I tested the reflex by laying the tips on the floor and measured the distance between the back of the handle and the floor. That was 5 7/8" of reflex. Once the tips are shaped will lower that some. I'd like to end up with 2" to 2 1/2" after shot in. We'll see.
I still want to add a bit more sinew then the rawhide cover over the sinew before final shaping.
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id like you to end up with 3 inches,, cause that was my guess ;D
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Sorry to hear about the flu Pat, glad you’re feeling better. On the plus side it hit you while the sinew was drying I suppose. I’ll be curious to see how close of a guess Brad had lol.
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Hope you recover fast Pat! the bow is turning out well!
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Thanks for the well wishes, guys and the comments about the bow.
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Well, I'm over the flu. It was mostly a week of headaches, low grade fever and sleep deprivation but all that's over now. I even had my first beer last evening since a week ago Sunday.
I did a little more work on this bow yesterday. I sanded the sinew back with 80 grit sandpaper to smooth it somewhat, to get the predominant lumps out...
(https://i.imgur.com/xnwZA0q.jpg)
then I resized the sinew back with hide glue...
(https://i.imgur.com/dz3fJM7.jpg)
in the mean time I separated out a few choice strands of sinew to fill in the thinner sinew areas on the back...
(https://i.imgur.com/Evee5q1.jpg)
...and added sinew where needed...
(https://i.imgur.com/qWAY6eS.jpg)
...after a little while I noticed the sinewed limbs had relaxed a little because of the introduced moisture of the hide glue and sinew. The tips were sitting back down the blocks. This morning I noticed they had come off the blocks a smig so the moisture is evaporating again. I think I'll be adding the rawhide today and then let it dry for a while. Once it dries some I may start shaping the handle and tips.
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Here are pics of tips back down on the blocks...
(https://i.imgur.com/of6tSqe.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/p1AbI95.jpg)
...and the drying sinew this morning with the more even sinew...
(https://i.imgur.com/aagTkBJ.jpg)
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Glad you got over the flu Pat.
I’m finally getting over it too. Had Covid twice at least and was nothing compared to whatever I just got over.
Thanks for the build along. I’m learning a lot about sinew backing and I am feeling more confident about giving it a go.
Watched the link WB posted from Chuck. Really made it easier to understand the process from his YouTube video
Bjrogg
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After the sinew dried for a day I decided to add the rawhide backing so it could all dry together. I sanded the sinew back again to smooth it out somewhat then prepared to add the rawhide. I first hydrated the rawhide in warm water...
(https://i.imgur.com/Y2gtXfu.jpg)
...then washed it well with Dawn and warm water then rinsed it well and put it back in warm water so it would stay hydrated...
(https://i.imgur.com/hhJxdZS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TDvyWJq.jpg)
...then I rolled the wet rawhide in paper towels to get the excess moisture off of it...
(https://i.imgur.com/oIL38qw.jpg)
...then it was time to size the sinew back and the rawhide before putting them together. I did this twice over about 30 minutes to ensure good adhesion
(https://i.imgur.com/0RhYHEQ.jpg)
I only do one limb at a time and overlay the rawhide pieces at the handle. Once the rawhide is in place I wrap it with strips of old bed sheets for about an hour. The strips of old sheets allow the moisture to evaporate as the strips hold the rawhide to the back...
(https://i.imgur.com/FnFPF5f.jpg)
After an hour I I remove the cloth strips and check the rawhide for trapped air and excess glue. I work them out with my thumb. If that doesn't work I use a sharp razor to make a small slit lengthwise and push out the air and excess glue.
(https://i.imgur.com/hDpG2uu.jpg)
Once both limbs have been covered with the rawhide it's time to set the bow aside to let everything dry.
This morning I trimmed the excess rawhide from the sides and belly of the bow. And now the waiting game begins. I'll probably give the bow at least a week to dry. With the wood stove in our house and even with humidifiers running things dry our pretty quickly.
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Thank God you are feeling better,Pat.
That soon (or not so soon) :) bow will have some definite giddyup.
Jawge
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Thanks George.
Not soon but I am hoping for some giddyup. Good things come to those who wait. :OK
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looking really nice Pat
Bjrogg
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Looking great pat. Glad your feeling better and back at it. Good to see more progress on this bow build. Always more to learn. Good stuff.
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I checked the bow this morning and the tips have raised back up off the blocks...
(https://i.imgur.com/bKsu2Fe.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xm1aNyP.jpg)
...and here is the rawhide covering the sinew...
(https://i.imgur.com/j3tzGbd.jpg)
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Cool
Just about time to be thinking of a paint scheme.
Bjrogg
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Pat I’m learning slowly. Could you give us the final specs when your done. I’m curious about the weight in sinew and a selfbow.
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Will do. :OK
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I think that bow is alive,, )P(
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Coming along nicely Pat. Should be done by spring. :)
Pappy
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Brad, I think so.
Pappy, I'll bring it to the Classic. :OK
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Looking good, my friend! I can't wait to see how it shoots but I know it will take time. Jawge
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Thanks, George. I was thinking about shaping the tips today but decided to wait until I brace it again to see how the string tracks. I'm getting impatient too but I know all too well where impatience gets me so I'll just have to wait a bit linger. Our house is pretty dry in the winter even with humidifiers going so I'm sure it will be dry enough before too long.
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Thanks, George. I was thinking about shaping the tips today but decided to wait until I brace it again to see how the string tracks. I'm getting impatient too but I know all too well where impatience gets me so I'll just have to wait a bit linger. Our house is pretty dry in the winter even with humidifiers going so I'm sure it will be dry enough before too long.
Sounds like it’s time to start on another one in the meantime Pat. That’s what I do when I get impatient.
Bjrogg
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Brian, I have a hickory backed locust at floor tiller.
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Brian, I have a hickory backed locust at floor tiller.
Always nice to have a few projects in different stages to work at when the bug hits.
Bjrogg
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bj, we have to rest a little between projects. LOL. Ha, Pat? Jawge
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That's right, George. We "mature" guys have to be conservative with our energies. :OK
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February 16 will be 2 weeks since I added the last sinew and rawhide backing so then or sometimes shortly after that I will work on bracing the bow. (A)
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great plan,, I have strung them too early, im not patient, it did not hurt them, they just picked up weight :D
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How's your little osage bow working out, Brad?
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Im still in the meditation stage,, (-S
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Im still in the meditation stage,, (-S
Me too
Bjrogg
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:OK (-S
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What a great build along Pat. Thank you so much for taking the time. Glad you are feeling well again.
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OK guys, believe it or not I'm back working on ElgBue. I clamped the bow on the tiller tree with a long string to see how she bends now that the sinew has had a chance to dry...
(https://i.imgur.com/CsdaiWR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/B7atQdQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/N0Mt5Hy.jpg)
...and after a scrape here and there to try to even out the limbs...
(https://i.imgur.com/5JFdFES.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Mpfi0Gg.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dYyu6Qb.jpg)
I'm hoping to get her braced so I can really judge the bend and draw weight but until then that's all I have for now.
Stay tuned!
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looks great (-S
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Ya that’s looking good pat
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Thanks for your phone call and help today, Brad. I think I'll try the temporary nocks inside the cut in nocks tomorrow and get her braced.
Thanks, Dave.
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Looking good Pat. Have been patiently waiting.
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Looking great to me.
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Very impressive, Pat. Jawge
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I need to brace this bow so I can see how the string tracks and get a real idea about the tiller. Yesterday I got a call from Brad Smith. Brad is a sinew backed bow enthusiasts and has taken an interest in this build. He asked me how I planned to brace the bow with this much reflex then suggested temporary nocks. He said what he does is tie a piece of leather below the nocks and use a tiller string at those temporary nocks to bend the bow while putting a string on the regular nocks...so that's what I did...
(https://i.imgur.com/UNgSsak.jpg)
...then I tied on a para cord tiller string using bowyers knots. This worked great but once I got the string on I could tell the string was tracking to the left of the bow.
(https://i.imgur.com/Sbi3AaN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HJZAWbW.jpg)
now I'll go back and shape the tips and do some heat correcting on the levers to get the string to line up. More to come.
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whats you estimate on draw weight,, when it was braced
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Brad, it pulled off to one side as soon as I got tension on the bow string so I unbraced it and heated and bent the levers over a bit. I need to pre-stretch the new string for it too to be able to brace it. I'm going down to my shop now to shape the levers and tips then I'll try to brace it again.
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Brad, I just low braced the bow(used push/pull) and put it in the tree with the bow scale. She pulled 33#@22" so that works out to about 45#@26" maybe a bit less. I still have a little adjusting to do but the levers are long enough I might pike it an inch or so on each limb which will bring the weight up some. She does seem to draw pretty smoothly.
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Cools stuff. I’m still watching this.
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wow that sounds bout perfect,, :)
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Well, I'm having trouble with the lateral stability. She keeps wanting to pull one way, I'll move the lever over with heat and she wants to go the other way. I need to let it cool again and see where we are.
I may reduce the length of the levers and see if I can make that work.
I think I have gotten too complicated with this simple design. :fp
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Pat,, I had sinew recurve and it really wanted to twist when I got it strung,, I took a bit off the tips and it got stable,, I remember thinking it didnt take much,,to fix the problem,, maybe brace a little higher
ok I would like to add,, if you can get it strung at a higher brace,, then leave it strung for a day,, I think the tips will start to come into alignment,,
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I hit a bump in the road on this bow. It developed a hinge at the fade for one of the the lever. (--) (A) ::)
The body of the bow, the sinewed area is still in good shape but I want to figure out, over the next few days where to go from here. My options are to add an underlay at the lever fades on both limbs and retiller or shorten the levers all together and make it a short, 50" straight limb sinew backed bow.
Brad, if I shorten it it will be 50" and not 57" like I told you but for my 26" draw that should still be OK.
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Shoot Pat. That’s a bummer. I would shorten the levers and work back to the weight you want. Maybe start with 1.5 inches on each lever and see if that fixes the hinge. If you reduce the draw weight back down. If not you could still go to the 50 inch option. Just an idea.
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Well dang Pat, hate to hear it, but will be watching for your fix.
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She is moving to the weak side, Pat, so give the other side a few scrapes and short draw it.
I had a yew stave that Jim Fetrow sent me years ago. You can imagine the angst I had in making sure it would become a bow.
I took pains, to the point of using a caliper, to make sure wood removal was even...left and right. Yet, when I strung it for the first time she was a leaner, favoring one side when braced.
I just took few scrapes from the other side and fixed it relatively quickly.
I admit I don't have the patience to deal with that much reflex so good for you.
Jawge
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That sucks Pat. I’m sure you’ll get it sorted. I personally would just try to shorten it an inch then try again then a bit more if needed. Sinew can do some interesting things when mated to wood bow. It’s not the same as throwing a layer of fg on the back that’s for sure. I’m sure your sinew job was consistent to the naked eye and done very well but I wonder if a variance in sinew thickness perhaps between the two levers you developed the hinge at was enough to cause it. It was bending good prior to the sinew so my guess would be that a touch more sinew was applied to the stronger side. Without seeing it it’s hard to know for sure but I’m sure you’ll get all good. I think you can salvage it like you say and shorten a bit and like jawge says to do a few scrapes after to get it in line. Fingers crossed. I hoping good things for this bow. All the best!
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Still watching and learning.
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I've decided to go with a patch. I have a thin piece of osage but I didn't want the contrast and I think it would be too stiff. My next option was a thin piece of ERC but I didn't want to chance that. Then I picked up a piece of the elm from this bow, sawed a thin piece out and flattened and smoother it with the belt sander.
My next decision was glue. Should I use some Unibond Roy sent me or TBIII. I went with the TBIII because I wanted to glue it up at room temp. I was afraid of introducing heat for curing with the hide glue/sinew backing.
I ground the patch flat then ground the area to be patched making sure I took just enough off to get a flat surface and made sure the patch and patch area glue surfaces mated well. I buttered both glue surfaces with TBIII and with a stiff backing over the patch I clamped with spring clamps. I'll give it at least until tomorrow for the glue to set then I'll see what I've got. After that I'll re-shape the patched area and see if it worked.
(https://i.imgur.com/cQgWqEO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XhyzCWq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/UqmmGPP.jpg)
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Same comment as Selfbowman. Watching and Learning.
I'm quite sure you can make it happen Mr Pat.
Piddler
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really cool,, (-S (-S (-S
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Sorry, Pat. I missed that hinge started. Jawge
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Still awaiting how this turns out.
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I removed the clamps and exposed the patch...
(https://i.imgur.com/PpqNrTw.jpg)
then took the bow down to my shop to reduce the patch and blend it into the limb. I started with a rasp working along the edges to shape the patch to the outline of the limb...
(https://i.imgur.com/M8MmFkD.jpg)
then started reducing the patch thickness working from inside to out as not to snag and rip up the patch...
(https://i.imgur.com/G9sI6GB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/aOzq4uM.jpg)
once I got the patch reduced I started using a scraper for fine tuning. no pics of that but here are the results...
(https://i.imgur.com/JuqWger.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/a6zYnVN.jpg)
Now, I'll wait another 24 hours to allow any moisture from the glue to evaporate before straining the bow on the test flight. More to come...
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Looks good! Jawge
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Pat its not a patch,, its a fine tuning embellishment ;D
looks great
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Thanks. I guess time will tell just how finely tuned that embellishment is. :OK
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That repair looks great Pat, hope it works out. :)
Pappy
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Me too, Pappy. :OK
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Waiting with anticipation for this one.
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Embellishment looks great Pat, fingers crossed.
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I shaped the patch and retillered the bow. Got her on the tree out to 26" then decided to put a few arrows through her. She is pulling just over 45#@26" and is pretty snappy shooter. She's about 61" t/t. After 25 arrows the unbraced reflex is about 2 1/2" and after relaxing she holds 3 1/2". Here is the full draw pic on the tree...
(https://i.imgur.com/SH72ScJ.jpg)
I still need to shape the handle and tips and add the finishing touches.
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Good build along Pat, thx for taking the time. Always exciting getting those 1st few arrows out of a new project. Tiller is looking good.
Mike
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That’s looking really good Pat. I would also like to thank you for bringing us along on this one.
Bjrogg
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Nice Pat, glad the patches worked out. :)
Pappy
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Great save. Tilling looks good.
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Good save. Thanks for the teaching.
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Thanks guys. Even though it was stressful sometimes it was still a fun project and as far as taking the time to document it it really doesn't take that long and trying to explain a situation is a lot easier with pics.
Pappy, we'll see how well the patch works. The area where the patch is is not stiff so flexing the patch shouldn't be a problem...but we'll just have to wait and see.
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Love the tiller, Pat.
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great job,, congrats,, love the 3 1/2 reflex too,, ;D
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Thanks, Pearlie and thanks for the encouragement, Brad. :OK
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Looks good Pat. Nice comfortable draw weight also. .
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Getting down to the nitty gritty now. I started with 2 applications of Tru-Oil on the handle area. I usually do the handle area first so when I put Tru-Oil on the limbs I can balance the bow on the handle so the finish can dry. Once the handle has dried for a day it's time to add the handle wrap. I decided to go with brain tanned leather for this.
This is a technique I learned somewhere(?). I make 3 or 4 wraps of masking tape around the area where the handle will go then cut down the center of the back...
(https://i.imgur.com/4NBaoy1.jpg)
This will be the pattern for the handle wrap. I lay the tape on the brain tanned leather and mark it out, leaving some extra at the top for a rolled arrow shelf...
(https://i.imgur.com/Ob8pDre.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xLnqN4Z.jpg)
I added glue to the inside of the upper handle and rolled it 2 times. I also did a single roll at the bottom to finish that off neatly. I used an awl to put stitching holes on the wrap at the center of the back and stitched it with hemp cord...
(https://i.imgur.com/jkbjM8P.jpg)
...and here is the finished handle wrap with her name, ELG BUE, written in the rune alphabet...
(https://i.imgur.com/etgDmTV.jpg)
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nice
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Got a couple more coats of Tru-Oil on today. I'll give it another day and put a quick spray of satin poly and she'll be done. Then I'll get some finished pics.
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Well done, Pat! Jawge
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Looks great pat. That’s how I do my handle wraps too. Sweet
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Nice build Pat.
Thanks for sharing
Bjrogg
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Nice job as always Pat, really love the handle wrap and really like the handle wrap template idea.
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Thanks guys.
Kenneth, are you guys dug out yet? (S)
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Done and done!!! (A)
Here are the final pics of Elg Bue...
(https://i.imgur.com/wIEPAe2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5bv43Rc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Pgo6HII.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dfJgzEC.jpg)
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looks great congrats :)
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Cool bow, Pat. Yours usually are pretty cool :)
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Finally done :)!
Nice job on that bow, it looks great. Interesting that you got it to bend in the "stiff" outer limbs. I am working on a version myself of same Hjärnö bow for which I am using Norway maple and it too bends ever so slightly in the levers without taking more set than just a tiny bit. I realise your bow is sinew backed, but how much is the difference in the wood between before/after the fades out to the levers? On a detailed drawing I saw of one of the original bows from same excavation, (there where 2 found of this type and 3 more conventional flatbows), I count the difference to less than 4mm/ 0,15" so not surprised it isn´t all stiff!
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Aksel, the working limb out towards the end is about 3/8" and the levers are about 1/2". Sorry, don't know mm. Whether the levers should bend or not I don't know but I've heard they may have. It is a very good design.
Thanks Pearlie and Brad. Glad to have it behind me. Maybe now I can enjoy shooting her. :OK
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Awesome bow! I've enjoied following along.
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Turned out real nice Pat. Thanks for the lessons. I hope you enjoy shooting it for a long time to come.
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Great bow! And great build - thanks for taking the time to share with us all. It’s been a wealth of knowledge.
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Thanks guys. That wealth of knowledge was passed down to me so I'm just passing it on to the next generation. Soon it will be your turn to pass it on. That's what PA and this forum is all about...passing it on! (--) :BB (R (-S (W (S) (SH)
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Pat could you show the unbraced,,, thanks,, :)
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Brad, I'll post a pic tomorrow. :OK
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Here you go, Brad. This is after resting all night, about 3 1/4" from the back of the handle to the deck with the belly up. Next time I shoot her I'll remeasure right after unbracing.
(https://i.imgur.com/m72Unrb.jpg)
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Nice bow right there. Thanks for taking us along
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wow that turned out so nice,, Im sure it shoots like a dream and smooth,,got to have some good cast,, :) I guess your home made glue was good,, :)
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She is a dream to shoot. Having the right arrows will make it better. I have 6 matched Sitka spruce shafts I'm going to set up for Elg Bue.
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OK, Brad, I put another 25 arrows through her this morning. I think this is the fastest bow I've built so far. I don't have a chrono but it feels faster and shoots very well. After the 25 shots I checked the reflex at unbracing and she holds 2 1/4" of reflex. I'm pretty happy with that.
(https://i.imgur.com/Upn9ELK.jpg)
Maybe with the new arrows she'll shoot even better.
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Very, very nice Pat. I would definitely call that a success.
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Cool build.
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Nice bow and build a Pat. Thanks for sharing you are a valuable asset to this community
Bjrogg
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wow thats so nice Pat,, congrats,, :)
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Ya you nailed that one. Well done.
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Thanks everyone. It was a fun project and she's fun to shoot. What could be better. :OK
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Well, here is the complete set...
(https://i.imgur.com/65ubloK.jpg)
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Nice setup Pat. Everything you need right there in a easy to carry package
Bjrogg
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Beautiful work Pat, enjoyed watching it come together. ;)
Pappy
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Very nice set. Love the green.
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Really nice bow Pat. Quiver and arrows as well. Really have enjoyed watching it come together..
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Thanks, Guys.
Dave, I also like the green. I thought of other colors but kept coming back to the green.
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Great looking set all around Pat. Dont know nothing about sinew backed bows but sure like the look of that that reflex in that piece of elm. Thanks for build along(s). Good read.
Mike
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Thanks, Mike. I have to thank BowEd for that beautiful elm stave. :OK
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that set is great,, love the deer hide quiver and great looking arrows too
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Very cool, Pat!
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please keep us posted if the bow picks up weight or gets more reflex,,, :)
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Very nice job as always Pat. May all of your time in the field with her please and satisfy you.
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Brad, we've had very low humidity lately, in the low to middle teens. I'm curious about what happens when the humidity hits 70% and up.
My Massey Medicine bow, sinew backed hickory with rawhide covering has as much as a 20# swing between low and high humidity.
This deer hide I used for the quiver had to been a winter coat in very cold climate. It has very thick hair which made it difficult to stitch.
Thanks Kenneth and Wood Damon.
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With Elg Bue resting most of the humid summer I braced her a few days ago, pulled her a few times and unbraced her. She sat at about
1 1/2" of reflex after unbracing. I'd be willing to bet that once winter hits and the humidity drops the reflex will return to 2 1/2"+ of reflex. I'll update again then.