Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Muskyman on October 01, 2022, 06:01:55 pm

Title: Draw length and bow length
Post by: Muskyman on October 01, 2022, 06:01:55 pm
Can I make a bow with a 66 long Osage stave with my draw length of about 30 inches?
Just a self bow with no backing. Or is that asking for trouble.
I guess if not I can make one for momma with it.
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 01, 2022, 08:42:55 pm
if you make it bend through the handle,, its doable,,just needs to be a good stave and very careful on tiller
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: superdav95 on October 01, 2022, 09:13:30 pm
Hey mike. How tall are you?  Are you certain your draw is in fact 30Ē.  I shot compound for years before switching to primitive and always had trouble getting a bow to fit my 32Ē draw being 6í6Ē and having arms like an arrangatang my draw was always an issue.  Draw length with primitive bows is a different thing.  Generally the draw is gonna be shorter on a primitive bow.  For example my draw length is 29Ē with a primitive bow.  My anchor is different when shooting my primitive bows then it is when shooting my compound.  I shoot split finger and shoot instinctive bringing the middle finger to the corner of my mouth and my bent thumb knuckle tucked behind my jaw.  Not sure how others shoot and to each their own to a certain point but if you are using your draw from a compound draw itís gonna be shorter.  There are many reasons for this as I figure.  The front arm is more locked out generally with compound shooting.  I keep my front arm more bent for control when shooting primitive bows.  This shortens some draw length.  Iíve made some shorter bows that draw fine out to 30Ē but itís is not recommended for your first bows.  I think you should be able to get 28-29Ē draw with a good clean Osage stave at 66Ēlength. A nice pyramid bow style would be a good design to start with.  Thereís a whole discussion that can be had about proper primitive draw length.  I donít want to open a can of worms here but my belief is there differences between primitive and compound shooting and even traditional for that matter.  My point is that unless you are quite tall or have arms that hang down past your knees you likley overestimated your draw length to be 30Ē.  Iím sure others here will chime in on this too.  Let us know how you came to 30Ē. 
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 01, 2022, 10:03:22 pm
agreed,,it might be shorter,, and then the stave wont be as strained,, just shoot it as you tiller,,, and stop when its good,,
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: Muskyman on October 01, 2022, 10:43:19 pm
Dave, Iím pretty sure but, could be wrong about my draw length. I shot a 75 lbs recurve for years at a 30 inch draw when I was younger of course. I got a test kit of arrows from 3 rivers archery cut at 30&3/4Ē and I canít say I really looked at how far they were from the back of the bow but Iím pretty sure they were pretty close.
Iím not quite as tall as you but Iím 6í-3Ē and have a wing span of about 6í-4Ē inches.
Iím not going to take a chance with it. Also I kinda promise my wife Iíd make her a bow with it. Itís from a piece of the Osage I tried to split and it ran off to the side. It was the last piece I cleaned up and it turned out to be big enough for a shorter bow.
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 01, 2022, 10:59:48 pm
you will always get different points of views,, but really only the stave knows,, you just have to try and see,,
I feel like it will do it, but if the wife wants a bow,, then thats your answer,,
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: superdav95 on October 01, 2022, 11:49:35 pm
Dave, Iím pretty sure but, could be wrong about my draw length. I shot a 75 lbs recurve for years at a 30 inch draw when I was younger of course. I got a test kit of arrows from 3 rivers archery cut at 30&3/4Ē and I canít say I really looked at how far they were from the back of the bow but Iím pretty sure they were pretty close.
Iím not quite as tall as you but Iím 6í-3Ē and have a wing span of about 6í-4Ē inches.
Iím not going to take a chance with it. Also I kinda promise my wife Iíd make her a bow with it. Itís from a piece of the Osage I tried to split and it ran off to the side. It was the last piece I cleaned up and it turned out to be big enough for a shorter bow.

Haha Ya your a freak like me then! Longer arms.  Itís sounds like you have a pretty good idea of your draw.  People have different styles of draw and methods.  If itís working for you donít change it.  Only thing is it limits you a little is all with a 30Ē draw.  Lots of guys do bamboo backing too and sinew to get extra draw so that may be in your future with that draw length.  Building elb/ war bows is another option even.  Youíll have fun with it either way. 
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: superdav95 on October 01, 2022, 11:51:16 pm
you will always get different points of views,, but really only the stave knows,, you just have to try and see,,
I feel like it will do it, but if the wife wants a bow,, then thats your answer,,

I agree brad.  The wood will tell you what itís going to turn out. 
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: stuckinthemud on October 02, 2022, 09:27:39 am
Type of handle affects draw length.  My old recurve has a nice deep grip and wide riser.  I draw 27Ē on that.  My elb I shoot off my hand and draw 24Ē
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: Muskyman on October 02, 2022, 10:46:57 am
Iím going to take my phone out to the shed with me today and string up a hickory bow I made and snap a picture of myself at full draw and see what it looks like.
Regardless of what I see Iíll keep the stave for a momma bow. She just started shooting out of the blue with a bow I was making and it ended up with a pretty light draw weight. She seems to like it pretty good and it gives us something to do together. Let you know what I find out right or wrong Iíll know for sure and work from there. I saw a guy talking about draw length online and he said about 2.25 inches of bow length per inches of draw length and that puts me over the 66 inches of this stave. Was just wondering what everyone on this site thought and that was the reason for the question. Iím just trying to get some more knowledge about bows and building them while Iím waiting on my Osage staves to dry out.. by the way I put a moisture meter in one the other day and if I remember correctly it was around 19-20 percent.
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: Allyn T on October 02, 2022, 01:09:11 pm
Type of handle affects draw length.  My old recurve has a nice deep grip and wide riser.  I draw 27Ē on that.  My elb I shoot off my hand and draw 24Ē

That's why I set up my tiller tree to go off the belly of the handle. That way no matter what the handle depth is I know the draw length will be right for my arms
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: Muskyman on October 02, 2022, 01:42:50 pm
Took a picture of my draw with a 30 n 1/2 to 3/4 inch arrow. Actually it measured 30 5/8Ē
Pretty much all the way to the field point. So Iím really close to the 30 inch draw
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 02, 2022, 03:43:26 pm
ok just for converstaion,,, a bend in handle bow, would have a handle not so deep,, it would reduce your draw a bit,,or how far you draw the arrow,, I still think you could get a nice bow close to your draw with the 66 inch stave,,I have made bows for people with 29 30 inch draw,, I am 6 ft,, but I face more forward so my draw is short compared to most,,,I just make the bow to be effecient at the draw I want,,,and have some shorter Native style bows that draw 23 inches,,  I like to shoot all of them,,,I dont have a set draw,, just depends on the bow,,
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: superdav95 on October 02, 2022, 07:48:32 pm
ok just for converstaion,,, a bend in handle bow, would have a handle not so deep,, it would reduce your draw a bit,,or how far you draw the arrow,, I still think you could get a nice bow close to your draw with the 66 inch stave,,I have made bows for people with 29 30 inch draw,, I am 6 ft,, but I face more forward so my draw is short compared to most,,,I just make the bow to be effecient at the draw I want,,,and have some shorter Native style bows that draw 23 inches,,  I like to shoot all of them,,,I dont have a set draw,, just depends on the bow,,

Thatís for sure brad. Iíve got some 58Ē short bows that have shorter draw that I still regularly shoot for fun and actually really enjoy shooting them.  I donít have a bend in the handle bow to compare draw to but would make sense that draw length for shorter bow be obtained. 
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: Muskyman on October 02, 2022, 08:51:48 pm
Okay Iíve got a question here. If you donít draw to a particular anchor point. Are you just snap shooting or what do you call it. Do you use a different anchor point? I know some of the old timers like Fred Bear and maybe Howard Hill had a quick release but Iím thinking they actually released when they touched their anchor point. I read Saxton Popeís  hunting with bow and arrow but donít recall, if it said how he and Art Young shot. I havenít shot a much instinctively much in a pretty long time. Iím not planning on hunting this year but have been thinking Iíd like to try and take a deer with a bow I made..
Iím not planning on changing my shooting style just for the sake of making myself a shorter bow. Iíll make this bow for my wife and make myself a longer bow. These questions are just for information only  also since I donít really know and havenít tried to look it up, what is a elb bow?
By the way, Iím still pretty deadly at around 20 yards for as much time away from instinctive shooting as Iíve had.
Thanks for all your thoughts, I appreciate it.

Mike
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 02, 2022, 09:13:32 pm
this is over simplified,, depending on where you anchor can change your draw, depending on how you stand can change your draw,, so lots of variables,, if you shooting a 23inch draw bow,, there is no anchor,,
if you have a way that works for you,, make the bow that suites you,,,where you feel comfortable with the anchor,, some insist there is only one way to shoot good form,, ok,, but around the world,, lots of different right ways,, it is harder for me to achieve accuracy with a short no anchor bow,, but I think if you had been shooting like that since you were 2,,, you could be deadly
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: superdav95 on October 02, 2022, 10:12:11 pm
Well said brad. I donít think there is any one way for shooting. When I shoot a shorter bow with shorter draw I typically cant the bow heavily and way more then I would normally.  My anchor is different and I pull pretty well to my eye with short draw. My palm will sometimes rest on my cheek area beside my nose.    I find it helps to get better accuracy as I can look down the arrow thatís resting on an almost horizontal bow.  Actually Ryan gill has a good video on this with shooting short draw primitive bows.  Might be good to watch if your doing some research.   Some of those shorter draw bows are really fun to shoot too.  ELB. English long bow.  Hope this helps. 
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: Muskyman on October 02, 2022, 10:38:27 pm
It does Dave and I agree Brad. My style is my style, not for everyone but, it works for me. I like to shoot but mainly itís practice for hunting and I really donít need a bow that Iím going to have to change how I shoot.  After Iíve made a bunch of bows I might make one just to shoot for fun but for now Iím going to make one that fits me and my draw length. Also one that donít worry is gonna break every time I draw it..
Iíll probably make the same kind of bow as the few Iíve made for now. Basically a flat limbed bow inch or so handle fading out to 1 1/2 for about half way down the limb tapering to about 1/2 inch at the nocks. Thatís pretty much style I have been making and Iíll probably stick with it for now..
Title: Re: Draw length and bow length
Post by: bradsmith2010 on October 02, 2022, 10:57:25 pm
I shoot and make for hunting,, I shoot far for fun, up close to kill