Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Aaron1726 on April 10, 2023, 08:02:05 pm
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Ever since reading Joachimm's info on backing with sisal I just had to try it. I picked up a 2x2 oak board with really good looking grain and a spool of sisal and went to work. Split the 2x2 in half length ways so I ended up with 2 short staves (the sister bow is a kids bow for my 4 and 7 year olds). So far I've been building almost only board bows, but wanted to try chasing a ring, this was just the board to try it on. Got it down to one ring, shaped and tillered to about 10in, then I took the heat gun to the belly and glued on the sisal to the back. Used tb3 for the sisal. I decided it needed some decorating so I layed out some artwork on the back and painted it up. Now I just got to work on my Comanche style skills! Hope yall like it, it was a fun build.
Specs on this one:
36" overall length
44lbs at 16in
Pre-sisal weight 176 grams
9 grams of sisal used
Weight after backing 204 grams
Has about 1.5in of set after unstringing, settles about 3/4in after a while
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Some more pics before the paint.
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And here is the board I started with, split it along the ring in pencil. I tried to add a little reflex in the glue up, but learned I should have done way more. Maybe on the next one
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Very cool. Stout little bow! I should keep those short red oak pieces in mind for bows like this. Definitely nice to find pieces you can chase a ring on.
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Wow. Cool little bow. This is one on my list.
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Very nice little bow with beautiful bend. Well done. :OK
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Bending looks very good
I like your bow alot and I think I'll make something along this way
I'm just a little puzzled by the weights and math
Are you sure of the numbers?
Pre-sisal weight 17.6 grams
9 grams of sisal used
Weight after backing 20.4 grams
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Thanks yall! These short bows are fun. Challenging to shoot, but tons of fun to mess around with. Not to mention it also fits in my quiver!
GlisGlis, just re-read that and rechecked my notes, haha, decimals where decimals shouldn't be...
Here's something that should make more sense,
Pre backing weight 176 grams
Added 9 grams of sisal
After glue up and trimming the excess, bow weighed 204 grams, just under 1/2 lb
I'll correct the original post, thanks for catching that
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Looks like your getting about all you can from that piece of oak. I like it! Great use of resources. A fine example of what can be done.
Mike
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Nice bow. The arrow looks great too.
I like how you split the board and chased a ring. I just finished a Osage board bow I did the same way.
Bjrogg
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Cool bow but dumb Tx has to ask. What is sisal??
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Arvy, bailing twine is sisal. A plant fiber.
Cool little piece of wood.
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Thanks yall
M2A, yeah I think that's about all I can ask out of that board!
bjrogg, thanks I just finished that arrow up along with the bow. I have wanted to try chasing a ring and this seemed like the perfect test piece since I've yet to get my hands on a real stave.
And yeah, just bailing twine. They sell it at the hardware store and Walmart too just as general purpose garden twine.
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thanyou Aaron
I ask you another courtesy
would you keep me updated on the durability and life of this bow? I think others too could be interested.
Thanks
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Well.... unfortunately this little bow has met its end. I decided to try some shots across the chrono earlier, something I have told myself not to do, but I couldn't resist. I had some 550-600gr arrows. First shot was a touch over 100fps, but I didn't think I'd pulled it to its full draw, so sent another across, making sure to get to 16in. Speed was 115-120 for the next few shots, then suddenly I was seeing high 130s for about 4 shots before... bang! The bow came apart right in the middle of my hand at full draw!
So... here's some thoughts I have. First, I had already put a few hundred arrows through this one without issue, but was always short drawing and pretty sure I never exceeded the 16in draw it was tillered to. My sudden high numbers on the chrony are a likely indication that I was drawing this little thing a bit too far. Seeing where the break happened I am suspicious that I had a little too much bend in my handle and that coupled with a narrower handle section and over drawing the bow ultimately led to its demise! I'm also suspicious that the tb3 may not be as good as hide glue for this backing. I'm not sure if the tb3 allowed the sisal to stretch like it should, but not sure.
Here's a shot of the carnage. Any other thoughts on why this one failed? This has only motivated me more. After some choice words, I grabbed 2 3ft boards I had and cut out 2 more blanks to try this again! Maybe one of those will end better!
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Ah man. I feel your pain. That was a sweet little bow. I’ve been caught up with chasing higher numbers on the chrono before and paid the price in similar fashion. Good excuse to make another I guess. I would also agree with your thinking on the tb3 vs hide glue. Tb3 is good stuff but imo it will not adhere as well to wood that has been properly sized and coated with prepped grooved clean wood. I can’t imagine that I would blame it on the glue though in this case. I think it just a Mayer of overdraw perhaps. The bend looked good but pretty extreme through the handle. Not sure if you have any sinew on hand but that would be an awesome candidate for hide glue and sinew. You wouldn’t need much really and could get away with shorter strands too with an overlap in the handle then a small cap over lap of sinew the cover both tag ends meeting at the middle of handle. Just a thought. Be sort of like a authentic plains bow or something similar with slight reflex. Would be a great bow actually. I’ve had this type of build on my mind for a while myself. Anyway so many project so little time. Best of luck on your next build.
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Thats a bummer. Too much bend in the handle? Maybe too much stress is a better question? Where was the set? Hard to see in the pics. But yeah I say that is a good guess after the fact. On selfbows I have made with that profile I try and keep the "fade and handle" area a bit over built until the last couple inches. That area can really get stressed especially nearing f/d. I don't see any extra thickness in your narrowed handle, plus looks to be plenty of bend in the f/d there. Follow the set for your answer, Looks like it was all in the middle 1/3 of the bow? I'd say your belly was just overpowered and failed. Maybe try and trap the back a little on a future attempt, watch for where the set is taking place so you can even out the stress. I don't think the break had anything to do with tb3 vs hide glue but it would be interesting to compare them in side by side builds.
Regardless, keep it up. look forward to what you learn about this. And, how you put it to use in the next build.
Mike
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
Dave, I have 2 pieces of backstrap sinew on hand, but that's it and it was a smaller deer too. So maybe not enough yet to back one, but this fall I will have the word out to family to send their sinew my way. So hopefully can give that a try eventually.
Mike, I think some it too may have been like you said about the middle third. I think I may could have had a little more bend near the tips. The handle was a little thicker, it was about 1 growth ring thicker, you can sort of see it in the picture after heat treat. But yeah it was definately overstressed especially with over drawing it... I am going to be paying much better attention to the set on the next one.
Thanks again guys. Hopefully the next one will hold up better. It's fun learning either way, really appreciate the help from folks on here too.
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oh that's unfortunate
i never worked with sisal but did some work with other agaves fibers and I found their fibers have almost no stretch so I tend to exclude it's a tb glue issue, I'd put my bet on the handle a little too thin