Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Aaron1726 on May 19, 2023, 11:12:59 pm
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Ok, so my red oak, sisal backed shorty went out with a bang! Design, tiller, and over drawing it all had a part in its demise. I am trying to learn from those mistakes and hopefully have a better outcome this go around.
First off, design. The Last one was 36" overall, I'm going to lengthen things a bit for some safety margin, this time I will be at 42" overall. Also, I found some hickory boards to work with instead of oak so I hope that will be a benefit as well.
Then the tiller... well I'm still learning, but from what I got from everyone's feedback, I think the handle had a bit too much bend. So this time around I'm not going to narrow the handle and I'm going to try to put less bend there.
My end goal is 40 to 45 lbs at about 18-19 in of draw. I have taken my hickory board (1.5 in wide x .8in thick) and ripped it in half so I can have 2 to work with of about 3/8 in thickness. I got both pieces roughed to shape, 1.5 in for about 8in in the middle and then tapered to 0.5in tips. My plan here also is to try my hand at sinew backing one and then sisal (or maybe dogbane) on the other to see how things turn out.
So far my first one, which I plan to back with sinew, is nearly ready to be backed. I got it tillered to about 15 in, then made a caul for a little reflex and tried a heat treat on the grill, could only get one limb at a time, but seemed to work ok. After final tillering out to 17 in, I'm now at roughly 0in of reflex, and 33lbs at 17 in. I have been getting sinew ready and went ahead and sized the back so hopefully I can get the sinew on soon.
Anyway, thought I'd share this one (or 2...) with yall. Hopefully one of them will turn out alright. Here are some picks so far of the build.
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Here's one at rest and at brace of the (hopefully) soon to be sinew backed one.
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A narrower and thicker handle that is bending less may still be under similar strain and at risk for failure. Even so short, I’d worry about it being a bit too thin at 3/8”. Hopefully the backing helps bring it up a bit.
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Ryan, we shall see, I may have gotten greedy with that board, trying to get 2 bows out of it. Still learning.
I did get a chance to get the sinew on today. I had a little over 40g to start with and ended up using closer to 30g I think. Hard to say for sure since the leftovers were all wet. I added and extra amount in the handle area first and then layed the rest on evenly over top of that out each limb. I had pre-weighed everything so I could hopefully keep both limbs even with the amount of sinew that went on. I think it was pretty even, I tried to leave equal amounts of left overs for both limbs. Anyway, here's a couple pics with the sinew layed out and then on the bow. Now time to wait till it dries....
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Couple more. Seems like a really thick layer right now, so I'm curious to see how much it shrinks as it dries.
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I like the idea of the twins backed with different materials :OK
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Looks very clean Aaron. Nicely laid out as far as I can tell from the pics. It will shrink in thickness quite a bit actually. It will become almost translucent as well. How much reflex did you add to the bow before adding the sinew? You may have mentioned it already but one consideration that I would recommend is that if any more then a few inches of reflex induced especially over a short bow with sinew running the entire length you may want to consider wrapping it with a cloth wrap and or tensor bandage or something to ensure that it doesn’t lift up as it dries and shrinks. It will have a tendency to pull off the wood as it dries if not held down in highly reflexed bows. Especially short bows. Wrapping my short bows with sinew is standard practice for me now. I use horse leg wrap and bicycle tire tube over that to really cinch it down. I’ve tried jute cord wraps and other non elastic type wraps and all worked well but they leave unwanted marks as the sinew dries. I’ve used old cotton t shirts strips too with good results. FYI and hope it turns out good for you. Looks good so far. You may not have enough reflex to even worry about it just a consideration. Cheers
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Thanks for the encouragement guys. Glisglis, yeah I'm curious to see what the difference might be. I like the idea of the sisal with tb3 for the water proofness, but I'm really excited to see how the sinew turns out.
Dave, it didn't really have any reflex left when putting the sinew on. I had a couple inches after the heat treat, but it lost almost all of that. I'm in central NC and our humidity is quite high most of the time, but especially this time of yeah. So I'm guessing that played a role. I had wondered about wrapping it, but was afraid of having the wrap stick to the sinew. I did a rawhide backing once and wrapped it, but there wasn't any exposed glue surfaces. When you wrap, do you wait until it starts to dry before wrapping? Or how do you keep the wrapping from bonding to the sinew? I guess it's dry enough today it would be fine.
Thanks again yall
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Thanks for the encouragement guys. Glisglis, yeah I'm curious to see what the difference might be. I like the idea of the sisal with tb3 for the water proofness, but I'm really excited to see how the sinew turns out.
Dave, it didn't really have any reflex left when putting the sinew on. I had a couple inches after the heat treat, but it lost almost all of that. I'm in central NC and our humidity is quite high most of the time, but especially this time of yeah. So I'm guessing that played a role. I had wondered about wrapping it, but was afraid of having the wrap stick to the sinew. I did a rawhide backing once and wrapped it, but there wasn't any exposed glue surfaces. When you wrap, do you wait until it starts to dry before wrapping? Or how do you keep the wrapping from bonding to the sinew? I guess it's dry enough today it would be fine.
Thanks again yall
Yes I wrap after it has set up and dry to the touch on surface. This allows for the wrap to not stick too bad. It also makes it better for not leaving wrap marks so much when waiting for surface to dry a bit. We are humid here too so I bring my sinew work inside the house where the ac is. I also put a good layer of hot glue on top of the sinew with my finger or brush. As far as your bow is concerned I wouldn’t worry about wrapping it as the reflex is not existent or very slight. It will likley pull into some reflex on its own with sinew drying.
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Thanks Dave, really appreciate the help. I noticed this today, one spot where it looks like the sinew is pulling apart in the middle of the bow. It's right in the middle of the handle. Not sure if it's anything to worry about or why this would happen? My first thought was to put a little more hide glue on the spot to help bind the loose ends and fill it a little. Any thoughts?
It's drying well I think, it has reduced in size quite a bit and it no longer white, turning more tan and translucent. I measured the tips when I layed things down at the edge of the 2x4 my vise is mounted to. It's about 1/8" higher than it started so seems like the sinew is starting to pull a small amount of reflex in.
Thanks again
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Aaron. I wouldn’t worry about actually especially being that it’s in the handle area. You could fill it in with some smaller strands of sinew and glue. You could also just put some hide glue in there too. What may have happened here is that the fibers may have been criss crossed or overlapping or not all running parallel there causing the separation. Just a possibility. Sometimes it just decides to split open too as it dries as sections may be slightly thinner or thicker in spots which can also cause these splits. You’ll likley cover this up anyway with a handle wrap so it’s more cosmetic really. Not a functional issue. Cheers
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Good to know, thanks Dave. I was hoping that it wasn't going to be an issue. I think maybe a little hide glue to fill it some is what I'll do.
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Some progress made on the second bow. This one is the sister bow to the sinew backed one, cut from the same board. I added some slight reflex to the tips and have done a couple light heat treats with the heat gun along the way. This time I focused my heating on the handle section to make sure it stays a bit stiffer. It's at low brace now, still have a few stiff spots, but I think it's close to a backing of its own. Still am deciding if I'll do sisal or dogbane, but here's where this one is.
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Lookin good!
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Made some progress today on the second bow. I had 9.5g of sisal teased out and ready, then using watered down tb3, I started dipping any laying on small bundles, just like with the sinew and hide glue. I clamped it down with about 2in of reflex before laying on the backing. There are a few stray fibers, but for the most part I think it came out ok. So now it's time to let this one dry and get back to work one the sinew one. Anyway, here's a few picks of this one.
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Got some time today to work on the sinew backed bow. I had sanded it down and cleaned up the edges a couple days ago, but today I was able to get it to a low brace, about 1 to 2 in. Worked the limbs some out to about 15in. Everything was looking ok, until...
I noticed this spot, near the tip, where some of the sinew was lifted away from the back along the outside of the limb. Maybe I didn't clean the back good in that spot? Everywhere else seems to be stuck on there pretty good. I decided to try to glue it back down, so I worked some hide glue into the gap and the wrapped the length of it tight with a rubber band to hold things down. Fingers crossed it sticks. Not sure if there is a better solution. Guess we will see.
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Yes fingers crossed. Only thing I may have suggested and you may have done already is apply a little heat to that area as you soak it with glue down in between the wood and the sinew. This might help
It adhere a little better. Keep us posted.
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Thanks Dave, I didn't even think about adding heat. Not sure I can now with the rubber band on there, but if it doesn't stick this go around I will try that. Thanks for all your help so far with this.
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Thought I'd post some updates on this. Currently both bows are tillered. The sisal one is nearly done, just a few last details. And the sinew backed one is ready to seal up I think. I finally got time today with no rain to shoot them some and get some pics.
So I will start with the sinew backed bow. The spot where the sinew lifted a bit seems ok. I let it dry a couple weeks before moving ahead. Got it braced at about 5 in and took some half draw shots and then some 18in draw shots today. The repaired spot is holding together so I hope that fixed it. I put a simple wrap handle on just so I could shoot it and not get sweaty hands on the sinew. Here's a couple of this one so far.
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And then the sisal backed one...
This one is nearly done. The sisal did not add weight as I'd hoped, maybe an extra pound to the draw, but that's it. It's also has not held the glued in reflex, that disappeared very quickly once I started bending it. It has however kept its current shape for between 200 and 300 shots, so I think it's where it wants to be. About an inch of follow, but that was about 2/12 or so inches of total set. It's at 41lbs at 18in of draw and shoots really smooth. I hit a copperhead while weedeating a few weeks ago, so stuck what was left of him on the back and painted the rest. Anyway, here are some for the sisal backed bow of this duo.
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Few more of the sisal bow, resting and full draw. And the the sinew bow and sisal bow in a family portrait.
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Awesome lookin little bows. So glad the repair held up for you. Love the look of the bend in these bows. Looks damn good to me. Well done sir. What’s the plan with the sinew bow. Any plans to cover it with anything???
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Thanks Dave, and again, I appreciate all your advice along the way.
Not completely decided on what to do on the back of the sinew bow, probably paint it unless I happen across another snake skin. I've twisted up some cord for the handle, I mixed dogbane and yucca, alternating every foot or so as I went so it's got a cool green/brown pattern going on. So the rest of the bow will likely have that same color scheme. I'll post pics when its all finished up.
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Some finishing updates on these 2. Gave the sisal bow away this weekend along with a quiver and a few arrows. It went to my brother who isn't used to a short draw so I marked all the arrows with some thread wrapping and superglue. Hopefully he will put it to good use.
I also finished up the sinew backed bow. I still need to measure the final draw weight, but along the way it was always measuring about the same as the other one so it should be about 40lbs or so at 18in. I ended up painting the back and the handle I wrapped with some cord I made switching back and forth from dogbane to yucca as I twisted it. So the cord changes color every so often, didn't measure, just went to twisting. Anyway, I'm pretty happy with how these turned out. Here's a few pics
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And a few more of the sinew backed bow
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Beautiful bow, very nice work, love the set you gave away also, bet he loved that. :)
Pappy
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Yup very nicely done. Love the design on that sinew backed one. What a great gift to your brother. That’s a good idea with the marker string on the arrow for short draw. I’m gonna do that for my short draw bow! Thanks for posted and again super nice work.
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Lots of work in all that equipment. Turned out great. People can say what they want but I do like lots of detail work. You sure got that going on with your work. Not a fan of a floating anchor point but I like it!
Mike
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Very nicely done. Love the looks of both of them. I have no experience with short bend through the handle bows but those bends look great to me.
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Thanks guys. These were fun to build and shoot. And yeah my brother was pretty excited with his. The sinew bow is staying with me though :)
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Nice bows and set for your brother, Aaron. The "nutter" arrow is cool too. I've used them on small game with deadly results. I like to leave a bit of the tapered end sticking beyond the nut to give a little penetration. I harden it with super glue.
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Thanks Pat. Yeah I've come to like the "nutter" arrows for stump shooting. I will have to make some up with a point like you do.