Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: welch2 on May 29, 2008, 06:28:46 pm

Title: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on May 29, 2008, 06:28:46 pm: I am trying to make a Egyptian horn bow like the one's found in Tut's tomb. Most of these bows have composite cores ,not sure why .My guess is that since the bows were about 1" wide and almost round ,the layered cores help make it more stable side to side. Here are my core pieces lemonwood and hickory ,with the handle's deflex steamed in.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/82a361141a6c043035991908310363a90591a1ba.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/8a836ea5186800e63e1615ed301a6e4af0e12175.JPG)

Next I sawed the hickory in two length wise so I could glue it to each side of the lemonwood ,and tapered the lemonwood down to about 1/4" on each end . Then with a pot of warm hide glue ,glued up the core.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/d1b368db1d3d071433a7109737866dc246139418.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/ea61621f05311238623774668f67c6274dad6035.jpg)

After drying for a few weeks ,here is the core so far.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/58336c7a16290b013e901c6d347061531d7e5598.jpg)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on May 29, 2008, 06:38:39 pm: Before I started on the core I split several gemsbok horns on the bandsaw ,and put them in big tub of milk .After they had soaked for a month , I pulled them out and tied them to board to straighten and flatten them.No boiling or added heat.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/500369ae1bef02433b991170394f600be79eeda7.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/bbc166130d31193b6156683455cc6f3ee2b4f344.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/53b26c315200d3bd1f03a462f2ec04509badf67a.jpg)

I let them dry out and harden back up , here they are now.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/f8e16b1205381d346ec3f331cefae8012e0a1fe9.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/ed716b14053f113d69a8a2f53514825992f48bd3.jpg)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: bowmunky13 on May 29, 2008, 06:40:52 pm: milk ???? my only guess is the lactic acid in the milk sofftens the horn once it impregnates it? this is a fascinating bow... i might have to get a set of gemsbok horns and get started on one my self.... but milk?? for a month??? ewwwww
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on May 29, 2008, 06:56:15 pm: If you get a really nice one you only need one horn ,after you saw it half each half becomes a limb. The milk idea comes from the Mongolian bowyer who made my ibex bellied horn bow . I normally use hide glue just thin enough to not gel , just as smelly though.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: radius on May 29, 2008, 11:01:36 pm: i agree with the munky: a month of milk is too much!!!
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on May 30, 2008, 12:14:35 pm: ;D It took me a while to come around to the idea of soaking horn instead of boiling them.

My idea was that boiling is cooking ,and cooking the horns in water may break down the proteins that make up the horn or at least leach some of them out . So I started boiling my horns in hide glue .(The water can't absorb things from the horn if it is already super saturated.) The cooking time seemed to go down a bit , and I didn't have to coat the horn with several thin coats of glue in order for the glue to stick.

It was a short leap from there to just soaking the horns till they were saturated and pliable. When they are ready the horns are very slimy . Then I normally heat the tub just a little (like heating hide glue :) ) and tie or clamp the horns to a form to dry in the shape I want. The working time is longer than just boiling too.

Then I found out the Mongolians do a very similar thing with milk , and I had to try it.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on May 31, 2008, 09:49:39 pm: Today I sanded the belly side of a few horn pieces flat , and trued up the belly and back of the core.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/734368d71ac5055c318c11633fb96bbda99c75c5.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/17336fd21feb042c31261a7730ca6a3f5e244d83.jpg)

You can see the glue lines between the core laminations better in these pictures ,I think. In the next photo you can tell my core is still quite wide. So, narrowing it down to near the width of the horn is the next step.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/ee916715013c1f3e6cecd4854c1708db41a2fc00.jpg)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: radius on May 31, 2008, 10:26:04 pm: keep it coming, man!
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on June 01, 2008, 12:59:46 am: Here are crossections of a few of the originals.

(http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/tut's_bows2.jpg)

And here a some profiles. The top one is a selfbow , the bottom one is the one I'm trying to copy.

(http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/tut's_bows12.jpg)

And this is upper limb and nock details the bottom bow again is the one I'm after.

(http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/tut's_bows9.jpg)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: 1/2primitive on June 01, 2008, 06:19:58 pm: This should be interesting, I'l be watching this one.

Does the milk smell after that long of sitting out?
Sean
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on June 03, 2008, 01:45:29 pm: Yes is does smell rather pungent . ;D
I'll try to take more pictures this weekend.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: JackCrafty on June 03, 2008, 07:20:40 pm: Excellent topic! ;D I'm fascinated.
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: juniper junkie on June 03, 2008, 09:30:22 pm: really cool. will watch this with much anticipation. thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Ryano on June 05, 2008, 02:09:44 pm: Really milk ? Wow, I never would have guessed. Guess you learn something new all the time. Soaking the horn in water doesnt do anything but milk does?
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on June 15, 2008, 08:16:42 pm: Milk is new to me too, as I said earlier I normally use hide glue to soak my horns . My thinking that lead me to this ,was hearing all the warnings about boiling horn to long ,and making them brittle or just weak. So me and my brother thought about it awhile ,and we think that boiling horn in water cooks it a bit and worse, leaches out some of the protiens . Then we started heating our horns in hide glue instead of water .Thinking that if the water is already saturated with the stuff (karatin , calogin) it can't leach any more from the horns. It worked really well . From there we started soaking our roughed out horns in weak hide glue (just weak enough to not quite gell) . We leave them in till they get flexable and slimy ( So we call it slimifacation ;D ) this works even better , we only have to heat the horns a very little ,like warming hide glue... And the working time is much longer than boiling , and the horns don't need much sizing with glue .

Today I thinned the hickory laminations alot , using the horn strips as a rough guide.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/3e536b0711a401103051107b357b6190ae158f23.jpg)

I also made a little hickory piece to reinforce the deflexed handle. I mixed a little horn dust with the glue ,to apply to the edges of the joint and spinkled dust along the joint edge . I grooved both surfaces with a toothing plane blade too.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/fe93619d15be0a5c303d1b7a37916db88195e807.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/2dd169130233103c6dcfc41aa1fccf78054de80a.jpg)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on June 29, 2008, 08:36:20 pm: Worked on the core , got the nocks raised ,

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/5d2166110c37113669f73d071377dfefda155c5d.JPG)

And the overall thickness thinned so it reverse tillers a bit .Now I can glue the horns on with reflex.
Here it is relaxed .

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/d4616b1e013318326896e07528df580181a350de.JPG)

And bent backwards .

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/5f516e1d00361f3367d50c022d623ef8e478a6d2.JPG)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Coo-wah-chobee on June 30, 2008, 12:10:18 am: Iam following this with interest.Thx fer doin' it Ralph.....bob
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on June 30, 2008, 03:26:48 pm: Glad you like it so far Bob. Not sure if I told ya , but I took your advice and smoked the 3 pieces of wood after deflexing them. That is just before glueing them together .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Hillbilly on July 01, 2008, 08:09:57 am: Ralph, very interesting project, and a wicked-looking bow design. I'll be munching popcorn and waiting for the next episode. :)
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: The Burnt Hill Archer on July 01, 2008, 06:47:12 pm: looks like its comming allong nicely...this is so far above my relm of bow makin, and very cool!!! thanks for takin the time to record it all.

Phil
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 01, 2008, 08:05:28 pm: Ummm popcorn . ;D

Phil I'm sure if I can do it , you can too.

Today I radiused over the back ,sinew side of the core .I will round over the belly (horn side ) after attaching the horn.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/a1436af71fc1002f39981f5c322c6907d2c3067a.JPG)

In this next photo you can see the red oak handle piece I added ,and the grain following the deflex in the handle.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/0be36cf612bf080c38d116d832286c1f8d0cb355.JPG)

To bad that will all be covered up .

I also started sizing the horn with thinned hide glue .A couple of these pieces didn't soak in the milk ,and they are reacting to the glue differently.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/c1a267f1b00c739813031266745b2ffbed37ae14.JPG)

I will keep applying thin coats of glue and letting them dry until the horns don't absorb it any more and I have a thin coat of glue on the surface of the horns .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: radius on July 02, 2008, 11:13:33 pm: so, after a month of milk, are the pieces of horn...flexible? soft? or what?
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 03, 2008, 01:35:41 pm: Both , pretty much just like boiled horns .But boiled horns get stiff quickly as they cool. The soaked horns get stiff as they dry. And as mentioned earlier , if you heat the soaked horn a bit (in the milk or hide glue) it gets even more flexible .You can hold one end and it will flop over like a wet noodle.

The previously soaked horns, when I sized them with thin hide glue , soaked it right in .And the horns that were just sanded flat the glue kinda sat on the surface for a while ,it took three wettings with thin glue for it to seep in . You can see it in the above picture , The top and the third from the top horn strips are strips of horn that were soaked in milk .Notice how smooth and evenly wet they look . The other two horn strips in the picture are just sanded . If you look you can see puddling and dry spots ,were the wet glue has already pooled around like water on a counter top.

I didn't have any boiled horn to try this time . Horn doesn't like to be glued . But I think the process of soaking them helps in this regard .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Knocker on July 03, 2008, 04:49:31 pm: Thanks for demonstrating this Ralph. How tough is it to find the horn? Expensive?

Keith
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 03, 2008, 05:32:34 pm: Keith , Gemsbok or orynx horn is relatively easy to find online and inexpensive . Around $20 each . You need to find horns that are straight in at least one plane ,and about 10" longer than you need. After sawing it in two ,you will have two pieces enough for one bow. The tips are very narrow so you loose some there ,and the bases are thin and brittle ,some loss there too.

Ok , this morning I sized the core ,took 2 coats .I also fixed a small spot where the glue joint between hickory and lemonwood was wider than everywhere else . I wet the spot ,heated it with a hair dryer .Then applied more glue and clamped it.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/80826d214007f36010a3ed6164371c7115b9d404.JPG)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: mullet on July 03, 2008, 06:18:43 pm: Ralph, when you are soaking the horns, do you change the milk, soak it in a refrigerator, or just not worry about it spoiling?
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 03, 2008, 10:11:27 pm: I just covered it to keep bugs out and let it spoil . The horns were in the bottom completed covered in a thick coat of curds when I pulled them out. This was my first time using milk . I normally use hide glue ,and I end up changing it a few times .But with milk it was a guess on my part that curds may be worth saving .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: mullet on July 03, 2008, 11:51:34 pm: Cool, I've got the strips cut. Don't let me slow you down. This is interesting.
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 05, 2008, 07:45:54 pm: I am slow you may just pass me up . ;D Mullet have you took any pictures ?

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: mullet on July 05, 2008, 10:50:27 pm: No, all I've done is cut the horn.
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 06, 2008, 05:39:18 pm: Just before I glue the horns on ,I thought I should take a few measurements of the core .

It is 50" long ,1" wide X 5/8" thick at the center and 3/4" wide X 1/4" thick just below the nocks .Without the horn , and the horn will be pretty thin.

I did check tiller as well as reverse tiller , but only at a couple of inches ,to check the shape . I have no idea how heavy it will be. Do you guys think I may need to thin the core some more ? I trying for 60# @ 28" or there abouts.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: D. Tiller on July 08, 2008, 09:31:42 pm: Ralph, may want to try soaking it horizontaly next time. I think this might help in the curdling problem sinc they either sink or float. Can never remember which!

David T
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 09, 2008, 12:28:49 pm: I did soak them horizontally ,laying down in a window flower planter . The horns sank to the bottom where the became coated in the milk solids .

I also have a 6' long ,1' deep and 6" wide metal tank that my Dad welded up for me .When done soaking I put the horns and milk or hide glue in there and heat them up a bit. I also use it for boiling or steaming self bows .I sit it on a few hot plates.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: D. Tiller on July 09, 2008, 07:45:32 pm: Prety cool! Do you have an idea about which part of the milk makes the horn flexible?
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 09, 2008, 08:28:57 pm: I think the water makes them flexible .The solids in the milk (or hide glue if you use it instead) saturate the water and keep the water from leaching things out of the horn. And might add a few protean strings to the horn instead of removing or breaking protean strings. That's my theory anyway ,I'm not a biologist nor a chemist.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 11, 2008, 06:30:06 pm: Today I put the first horn strip on. I got both core and horn sized with a good coat of glue .Then I mixed up some new glue 50/50 hide glue ,fish bladder glue. Got the kitchen good and warm and also started a tea pot boiling. I softened the glue on the core over the tea pot ,and added a coat of the new glue .Then I did the same to the horn.

Next I placed the 2 together ,and start wrapping them tight with a rope , as I walked the rope up the limb ,I put the next section over the steam to soften it. Wrap - Steam ,,Wrap - Steam. Paying extra attention to the added handle junction.

Sorry for the steamy lens ,in this photo.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/33c365371712058831bd1806392162216e684cf2.jpg)

I went over the thing a time or two checking steaming tying

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/25b26ff1ef02b3f818238b63e45c5dfc21ddec75.jpg)

Then when I was happy with it ,it went outside to be tied into reflex against a front porch post.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/845164100c3b18396bdc708f980d566103ac56e3.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/94816d1903351a3c652d83f6c031515a9ea12e9c.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/37026be1dd0343a21fa3066a20eba15d4f0283b8.jpg)

It was a hot and sticky process , fun too.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 13, 2008, 10:17:22 pm: I glued the first horn strip on Friday ,It is Sunday now.It rained last night and this morning , I was afraid the glue would not dry .It was tacky early this morning. But around noon I checked again and the glue that had oozed out was very hard . So I untied it ,and trimmed the edges .I also roughed in the thickness a bit. Here it is now .

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/07626ea1d806233c15c35763471a1082b7db0475.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/5eb16e1f0b3e12396c0f6198a9727b1d296caf75.JPG)

Now on to the other limb's horn strip.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: radius on July 14, 2008, 01:58:33 am: Dude, you are patient and very cool. Like the way you reflexed against the pillar. Do you think, since this next go around the top limb is thicker, that one limb might be reflexed more than the other? Or have you thought of that and already made allowances for it?
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 14, 2008, 12:40:18 pm: Radius ,I tried to allow for that ,and the fact that this limb is reflexed now .Where as the limb I pulled against to reflex it wasn't. I will use the extra space ,between the limb and the post , in the pictures above, to try to get the reflex as even in the two limbs as possible. I have the photos as a reference ,should help some.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 14, 2008, 03:37:58 pm: Here is the second horn ,put on the same way as the first . I keep trying to take pictures ,but glue and steam are playing havoc with the cameras. I did get one ok picture of softening the glue on the core this time.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/92326651ae04630912f3bf65b96356aeddd928a2.jpg)

Here it is all tied up in reflex

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/ebc163120e3f14356933a9d1e78481b0f44ff53b.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/dea3699b1ff50562365613b23e1560a96f9f5e64.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/b2d36cd711920b213a771077365565da45f58c44.JPG)

I hope I'm not going to far overboard with the pictures.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Papa Matt on July 14, 2008, 03:49:48 pm: $#@! No! Keep 'em commin'! :P
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: radius on July 14, 2008, 10:48:26 pm: Welch...

(what is "welch" anyway?"

:)

Next time, do you think you'll horn both limbs at once? Or is there some reason why you didn't? Other than maybe time?

Scott

("Scott" doesn't mean anything, btw)!!!
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 14, 2008, 11:09:46 pm: ;D ;D It's my last name and the 2 is because I'm a Jr.

You could do both limbs at the same time ,if you made a form for reflexing them .And you have a helper or two .Even working in a hot steamy room ,it's race against time ,to get the horn tied on and reflexed before the glue sets. As it is I steamed the horn - core junction three or four inches at a time , Then wrap and align ,,, repeat.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: The Burnt Hill Archer on July 14, 2008, 11:32:16 pm: man its comming together nice. and there is a WHOLE lot to it. kudos my friend! and no the more pictures the better.

Phil
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: koan on July 15, 2008, 04:41:10 pm: Just found this...now I gotta have more :D.....Brian
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 15, 2008, 05:00:23 pm: Glad ya found it Brian. The more folks I got helping me out on this one the better my chances are.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 15, 2008, 08:17:16 pm: Well , both horn strips are finally on. I think it's starting to look like a bow.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/bff367e51fd10e8a3f2a1b033fc3697eaa051e0b.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/fc6169120c38113664fb69d23db3cb48cfe721a5.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/2171611c023d1c3865245d1dd94239f6c2f86087.JPG)

Now I have to give it the oval shape (except the back) and even up or taper the thickness of the horn .Then it's sinew time . ;D ;D ;D

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: The Burnt Hill Archer on July 15, 2008, 09:37:42 pm: 8)
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: radius on July 15, 2008, 09:43:36 pm: that's deadly, man...don't rush, but keep it coming!

How thick are the horn strips, would you say?
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 15, 2008, 09:54:20 pm: Just measured it for you , right at 1/4" .The bow is 1" wide at the handle now ,and 3/4" thick.

The originals were almost round , a slightly flattened oval .So I guess I'll be laying the sinew on kinda thick. about 1/4" thick to get right shape of the limbs.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: radius on July 15, 2008, 10:03:37 pm: thanks...now, how you gonna pull that sucker?!?!?! Looks like you'll need a winch!
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 15, 2008, 10:38:08 pm: You may be right . The limbs don't flex very much right now . Old King Tut may have a pretty strong archer , huh?

I'm trying to stay as true to the museum bows as I can .That includes trying to induce 4 -6" of reflex when I sinew it.

But this bow is for the bow trade on palio planet. And the guy I'm making it for shoots 60# at 28" . A few of the originals had part of ,or the whole of, the horn shaped like a keel or a ' V ' ... I could do that to lose a little weight .

If I have to alter it much to make near 60 pound draw ,I'll just make another one . I really want to get an idea what these bows were capable of.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: radius on July 16, 2008, 02:37:51 am: are you on the line for a bow like this, as far as the trade goes? Or just any bow at his dw and dl?

i have been following your threasd since you started, but obviously i don't read from the beginning every time: have you made a bow like this before?
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 16, 2008, 03:19:27 am: The trade is for whatever whoever drew you wants to build ,at the draw weight and length ,yes . Lot's of fun.

I made a bow kinda like this a couple years ago.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,2260.0.html (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,2260.0.html)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: radius on July 16, 2008, 03:31:25 am: cool, i just checked out your "mirkwood bow"...you must have a truckload of patience, man! I've never worked with horn, but it seems like it would take forever and also stink to high heaven. Good on ya.

Scott
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 18, 2008, 06:14:51 pm: Thanks Scott , most of time is waiting for something to dry . Working on horn smells a little like burning hair.

I'm working on a way to tie it in reflex .Right now now the tips are still about 1/2" behind the handle (deflexed) .I am thinking about glueing small blocks on the back side of the tips. Then run a string over them to pull the reflex in . I might try it without them first .

But built up tips would give me room under the string to sinew in comfort....

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Knocker on July 20, 2008, 01:19:09 am: Hi Ralph,

A couple of questions. I am pretty new at primitive archery, and never worked with horn at all. So I understand that the horn is on the belly of the bow? I would have thought it would be the backing... So you must be doing this because the horn is very good in compression right? And then the sinew is strong under tension. Do you think the horn would also be a good bow backing - it has awesome looks and seems it would make a nice combination on the back of a light colored wood like vine maple or oak.

Keith
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 20, 2008, 12:34:17 pm: Yes ,the horn is the belly because it's great in compression . Horn is also very heavy and weak in tension ,so most consider horn a very poor backing material. Horn also has to move a long way to store that compression energy ,requiring horn bows to be reflexed more than self bows . Then with all the reflex you have to sinew it to handle the tension and protect the back.

If you like the light dark contrast , cover the sinew in a light colored bark, like birch . This Mongolian bow I had made for my brother is ibex horn covered in birch bark.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/a83165170531163f6928e837c3acfa9361dc9ec9.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/a33263a1200eb3cd15f32e665159b46ac9dbcdf4.jpg)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/9b636b301ccb0c1d323f14a9364461c553caad01.jpg)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Knocker on July 20, 2008, 03:34:38 pm: AThanks for the information. Very cool bow. Now of course we all want to see the bow strung and in full draw...

Thanks,
Keith
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 20, 2008, 03:55:19 pm: I wish I could full draw that one . ;D
I gotta make a new string for it but ,here is what I have .

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/b5b36ff0121b0bb93eb2183a3169623dc13dd8b8.jpg)

This is as far as I can pull it.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/4463632c1da8033a3430110f3a926440004dc746.jpg)

This is the bowyer ,Tumurhuu Batmunkh and he is head of the Mongolian archery association, former champion and bow-maker.

(http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/tumurhuu.JPG)

Tumurhuu is 62 years old ,and he makes it look easy.

The string has stretched a bit ,and as it is, it has lots of hand shock ... Ask the guys who shot it at the Classic.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: medicinewheel on July 20, 2008, 04:18:53 pm: hi ralph! - i have one of batmunkh's, too - actually 'restoring' it at the moment!
i made some really long really heavy arrows and the bow shoots them quite well; they also almost eliminate the handchock!
frank

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 20, 2008, 04:42:56 pm: That's a sweet bow Frank. He sure knows his stuff.

How heavy are those arrows ?

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 23, 2008, 06:48:17 pm: I got some of the reflex pulled in ,time for the first layer of sinew .

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/50d26ee1bf0db36f1bb33360c38d9ff37c6a7d52.jpg)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 24, 2008, 07:51:25 pm: The first layer of sinew is on . Woooooo Hooooo
I keep checking it every half hour or so ,and rub it a bit to flatten and even it up .The tips are about dry the rest is gooey still .After about five hours .

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/7db36e1312420ae23bc9108b39ad685f0fcd8e2a.jpg)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: D. Tiller on July 24, 2008, 08:18:46 pm: Patience my friend Patience!!! ;)
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: The Burnt Hill Archer on July 24, 2008, 09:19:51 pm: nice setup for the reflex. sinew job looks pretty good too, yeah what D said, patience. but for a project like this, youve gotta have patience oozing out of your ears!

Phil
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on July 26, 2008, 07:11:58 pm: Thanks guys , I'm glad you call it patience ,, my wife calls it laziness .

Rained a lot yesterday ,and I've got the bow in the cab of my truck .The cable went just a little slack in the morning yesterday ,so I cranked the stick around a few turns till it was tight again ,and put it in the truck. It is 85 degrees outside and quite a bit warmer in the truck . When it stops pulling in reflex , I will wait a few days and add the next layer.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 01, 2008, 02:00:48 pm: The first layer of sinew has stopped shrinking (the rope no longer goes slack after a few days ) Here it is untied showing the reflex it now holds.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/4af265f10c02933a19e3e46c7cebded9d5a1c9f8.jpg)

Now I will tie in more reflex and apply the second layer of sinew.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: D. Tiller on August 01, 2008, 07:59:33 pm: OOOHHHH!! This is so exciting! Watching sinew and glue dry!!! ;D 8)

Nice looken bow so far. Cant wait to see how it does when dried and finnished.
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: radius on August 01, 2008, 10:04:43 pm: Quote from: D. Tiller on August 01, 2008, 07:59:33 pm
OOOHHHH!! This is so exciting! Watching sinew and glue dry!!! ;D 8)

Nice looken bow so far. Cant wait to see how it does when dried and finnished.

That IS exciting! Better than watching a snail race!
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: D. Tiller on August 02, 2008, 12:52:18 am: I don't know about that. Depends on which snail you put your money on! ;D
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 03, 2008, 05:27:25 pm: 'tis a pretty slow process , fer sure . I'm havin' fun though.

The second layer of sinew has been on for two days now ,and I have tightened the rope twice .Looks like if I add any more reflex , I'll have to loose the clamps .The angle is getting pretty steep .

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/de026b81590e337b13938e636cc040c5b6dee319.jpg)

Does anybody think ,I should add the center horn spacer now ? And try to string it , or should I go for more reflex first ?

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: D. Tiller on August 04, 2008, 02:16:46 am: I will not give advice on this! I am way out of my league with these style bows. But, hey, if you can get away with more reflex I always say go for it! ;D
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 06, 2008, 04:55:33 pm: The bow is pretty much holding the reflex in the last picture .It has ten white tail deer leg tendons worth of sinew on it now ,and the back is flat still . I think I'll add some more sinew ,in order to build up a central ridge ,and give the bow the oval shape it should have .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Pat B on August 06, 2008, 07:03:30 pm: Hey Ralph, Are you gonna be able to pull this bow when you are done. :o ::) She's looking good so far. Pat
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: D. Tiller on August 06, 2008, 07:42:07 pm: I had the same thoughts! ;D
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 06, 2008, 08:09:50 pm: Pat , I sure hope so . :) But I don't have to be able to draw it ,Nugget does .I drew him in the bow trade over on palioplanet . T.J. 's draw weight is around 60# at 26" . I hope I don't overshoot it much.

Here is a close up picture of the back after removing the ace bandages.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/8bc3684e13fb029b36811ec23e706fa4a3de2c7a.jpg)

Notice how the ace bandages left some high places ,caused by the edges of the bandages .Normally I rewrap them in the other direction after a few hours to even that out. But it has been so hot the sinew dried hard in that time. Adding a little more sinew will fix it I think .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 08, 2008, 10:00:58 pm: I hope I'm getting close to being done . Today I sanded the sinew down a bit .( mostly on the sides) And added one more layer (5 legs) trying to make the back more oval . This time I was able to tie straight to the tips......

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/5f736d2613b80b8539451b243ffc6c81e08e78bf.jpg)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 08, 2008, 10:40:29 pm: I measured it,,,, 3" of reflex from the back of the bandaged handle . I'll tighten it a few turns as the sinew dries . So it should end up between 3" and 4" of reflex . I think that's as far as I will go ,this bow is only supposed to be 60# @ 26" . :)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: sonny on August 09, 2008, 10:15:11 am: as thick as it seems I think it'll be more like 100#....
I know you can sand the sinew a bit to take the weight down some but otherwise how do you reduce the weight ??

interesting build-along !!
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 09, 2008, 11:35:22 am: I think I can still sand the horn down a little also .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 11, 2008, 07:27:18 pm: I unwrapped it , the sinew isn't cured yet , but it's holding just over 1" reflex ( measured to the back) .I dyed the last layer of sinew so I could easily determine what I sanding through as I evened up the back .

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/a02361e51b0305563b6d18c939136c9c4e4fbea2.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/39a266c10206239218031c6c5db19f6eacad59af.JPG)

Next I will check ,again the thickness of the horn every where .Then sinew wrap the limbs just below the nocks . Then make and glue the horn spacer ,and install it in the handle ,,,,,, Then sinew wrap the handle.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/61426fe16b04630915835768269ec3d2b7dec9ce.JPG)

And then cut and shape the nocks.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Ryano on August 12, 2008, 05:45:44 pm: Coming along nicely. ;D
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: The Burnt Hill Archer on August 12, 2008, 09:46:49 pm: hey man its starting to look like a bow! ;D
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 12, 2008, 11:07:42 pm: Thanks , yea it does look a bit like a bow.
I wrapped the limbs just below the nocks ,and either side of the gap in the horns at the handle.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/0971601808321e3a67f6a7b1ee25752f7b0fd619.JPG)

And I made the horn spacer for the gap at the handle .I took my time filing it down making it so tight ,I had to pull it in place with clamps.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/a0d167190132133a62b20c6386cc94273ac54fa2.JPG)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 22, 2008, 12:29:58 pm: I got the handle shaped

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/9f216a1e02381d366408cad96c8fe90a3a77037c.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/92f166180c3a1b336149686bd78413a73929f44b.JPG)

Checked the tiller too ,looks pretty good just bending on my knee. Now I have to finish sinew wrapping the handle . Then shape the nocks .Tweak tiller . And decorate it ........

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Pat B on August 22, 2008, 01:19:50 pm: Ralph, Have you shot it yet? Pat
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 22, 2008, 01:36:13 pm: not yet Pat .sure is tempting though.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: madcrow on August 22, 2008, 11:23:32 pm: If you need somebody to pull her back and fire a few test shots, i will volunteer my services. >:D
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Ryano on August 22, 2008, 11:29:51 pm: How close did you come draw weight wise? It sure looks awful thick!
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 22, 2008, 11:46:25 pm: Yeah it is thick , like the originals, almost as thick as it is wide . It doesn't have as much reflex as the bow I'm copying and it's not as thick either ... It's looking like old bows were kinda heavy draw weight bows. I won't full draw it till I fully wrap the handle .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: The Burnt Hill Archer on August 23, 2008, 09:22:25 am: have you drawn it at all yet, or just floor tillering?
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on August 23, 2008, 11:14:28 am: I've bent it ,handle on my knee ,and pulling both tips ,6 or 7 inches .That was far enough to see the pyramid shape start to form .I had to scrape the horn on the end of one limb just a bit ,because it wasn't unrolling like the other one.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 08, 2008, 03:05:00 pm: Getting very close to stringing ,,, finally. Thanks for all the help so far guys .
Here is the handle section fully sinew wrapped.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/04b36490160500b33011175d30ed651984a06e30.JPG)

And the nocks are roughly shaped for the first stringing.. Do ya'll think I got shape about right?

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/bdd16715073d13396a51f43368f8e3ad14ce2888.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/5fe164120736133863053a20c9c1076f44033d84.JPG)

In this last picture ,you can see the string groove in the horn the old bows had it too.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/70226f51ff06d3651fc3126afd2b022f614721ee.JPG)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 09, 2008, 10:51:29 am: I took a walk along the river this morning ,and look what I found . I've never covered a whole back with bark ,any tips or ideas?

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/e7e367361242083e302312e63f3463f39482aa28.JPG)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Pat B on September 09, 2008, 01:42:06 pm: Ralph, What kind of bark is it. Some barks are too brittle when dried and if the bark cracks there is a chance the bow will also. Birch bark or cherry bark is what I would use. I believe birch bark is a traditional backing over the sinew on some Asian bows. Pat
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Papa Matt on September 09, 2008, 02:33:38 pm: That there looks like Sycamore.

~~Matt
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 09, 2008, 02:51:29 pm: Yep Matt that's what it is .Does anybody have any idea if it will work .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Papa Matt on September 09, 2008, 03:08:16 pm: Brother, I've never bark-backed a bow, but I grew up with sycamore trees all around the house, and played with the bark and even made kid bows out of the limbs. I doubt that sycamore bark will work cause it likes to crack and crumble like a cracker when it's dry. I wouldn't mess with it.

~~Matt
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: alfadee on September 09, 2008, 03:38:37 pm: i think matt is right.
you need elastic bark to back a bow with and i think the bark you can use for always grows horizontally on the tree.

david
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Pat B on September 09, 2008, 03:41:27 pm: I thought it looked like sycamore also. It is too crumbly for backing. Canoe birch or choke cherry would be your best bet. Pat
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 10, 2008, 06:27:02 pm: Thanks guys I'll keep lookin'

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Pat B on September 11, 2008, 03:39:43 pm: Ralph, I may have a few strips of birch bark you are welcome to. How long do you need. Pat
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 12, 2008, 10:09:01 pm: Thanks Pat, it's 52" long ,but Eddie is already sending me some . What a great bunch.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: mullet on September 12, 2008, 10:32:50 pm: Ralph, I'll box it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 12, 2008, 10:34:43 pm: Here we go finally bending .Tell me what you think.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/e7b16b120436193a6bd8cd0baafde734815af1b3.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/ec316d1e0c3f11366b401d41a85424ea89c7fdc0.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/381362ce163b03cb3436131a31356557b09af671.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/3c61661d0531193e6356a9ea4ce2748e085864db.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/f5c169100e3c193c6f6c028c2cf65c8505f5e649.JPG)

I put a scale on it pulled about as far as in the last picture it's 45 pounds .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: mullet on September 12, 2008, 10:56:55 pm: With a short string, that's gonna be a stout bow.
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: alfadee on September 13, 2008, 09:40:14 am: looks really good. a little more drawn the limbs should be totally straight.
what draw weight are you aiming for?

david
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 13, 2008, 01:19:23 pm: That's a trick question ... I am trying to copy the dimensions of one of the bows from Tut's tomb ,so whatever weight it turns out is what it is ... And on the other hand I am giving this bow away ,it's for the annual bow trade over on paleo planet , and the guy who will get it draws 50-60 pounds at 27" ,, so I didn't reflex it as much as the original when it started to look like a pretty heavy bow. I hope he likes it ,and can pull it .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 23, 2008, 12:55:18 pm: I got this great big piece of bark in the mail , Thanks Eddie !

I have read that you soak it for a while to get the layers to separate ,and make it thinner . Has anybody ever done this ? Should I cut some strips of bark off then soak them ?

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/a4216f1109311b37608b2e650bfa01c02cb8f3dd.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/a083623615550455354a156b350a62c3842cf9a7.JPG)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 24, 2008, 04:49:07 pm: I got her strung .. ;D ;D ;D

(http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/tut-strung2.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/5da26051d708d30519337a6f92ec957119fbf5ed.JPG)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: JackCrafty on September 24, 2008, 04:59:15 pm: Awesome! ;D
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 24, 2008, 05:03:51 pm: Thanks Jack .I just scaled it too , 70# @ 28" . or close to that gotta mark an arrow to be sure .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: medicinewheel on September 24, 2008, 05:16:39 pm: hey ralph! congrats!!!
i'm impressed.
frank
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 24, 2008, 06:02:18 pm: Thanks Frank , It was scary a few times , and I still have to learn how to apply the bark or just put skins on it.

Here are it's measurements, 49 1/4 " around the bow (following the sinew around strung) a bit shorter than that unstrung because of deflex /reflex curves . And it is 47 1/4" nock to nock strung . Brace is 5 3/4" to the bow's back right now.

I'll try to get a full draw picture this afternoon , I have to get Duncan to take it (he's 11 ) so we'll see what we get.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 24, 2008, 07:55:56 pm: Here are the drawn pictures.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/2783693d1b420d44320710b835b8611bf202d168.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/0c136f6610a30de336d51afb3c1c645cbbd69428.JPG)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 24, 2008, 10:05:00 pm: It was really burying the arrows in the target . Then after about 20 shots or so this happened .

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/29c169180b3a1f3c67c8d408c07cd1ef482de0d8.JPG)

I think the lemonwood in the center of the core broke first , splintering the hickory on either side and tearing the sinew in two.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/f81266d13207f3b317f32d65f1f753d81e6ae214.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/c7c163170b39183b6c1736add770f878881ff179.JPG)

I think I'll start again with a more flexible wood for the center ,and make the core a little thinner overall ,so I can reflex it more with thicker sinew.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: mullet on September 24, 2008, 10:35:45 pm: That really sucks, Uhh, soak the bark before you put it on. :-\ :'( ;)
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: D. Tiller on September 25, 2008, 12:49:00 am: I feel your pain!!! OUCH!!!
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: JackCrafty on September 25, 2008, 01:06:20 am: !

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: medicinewheel on September 25, 2008, 07:19:17 am: man, that sucks! did you get hurt? hope not!
well, it's sure a learning experience, but a tough one this time, huh??

rather try mullberry, ash or maple (no burlwood) next time; i have not made one, but done a lot of research and those are the woods you will hear about. plus uses PERFECT edge-grain!

frank
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: medicinewheel on September 25, 2008, 07:23:34 am: Quote from: welch2 on July 01, 2008, 08:05:28 pm

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/a1436af71fc1002f39981f5c322c6907d2c3067a.JPG)

checking thru your thread i found this picture of the core; that looks like some serious grain run-off right there!
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 25, 2008, 11:09:26 am: Yepp Frank ,that grain in the hickory bothered me too . I think that was the limb that held though . The hickory didn't split along grain ,it splintered into many sharp points from the back to the belly (across all the grain I think ) . here are some more pics.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/95c16f1e0f36183963143fd3458ab6ea25f07640.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/0eb161120432143f6da8b17328f3c3c60ce095a9.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/54036093139102bd3be61414336f634d99ed5e17.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/99a269a1a70633af1dc31965392e9090ab286fed.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/a6836dda12e20fa33ed7102d32676f9c163754d8.JPG)

But the lemonwood broke the other way .

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/74136e8712fe096939ba1eb4379a6914159ef1e2.JPG)

Heck I'll try again , for one thing this time I'll froe out my hickory then hand plane it ,to assure the grain runs true .And I'll make the core thinner overall. Keep the ideas coming.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: JackCrafty on September 25, 2008, 12:02:44 pm: Did you hear anything before the bow broke? Usually sinew will make noise before failing. If not, then it looks to me like this is a simple matter of a hinge failure. The wood broke at the edge of the handle reenforcement (the piece you glued to the belly). A smoother transition in thickness might work better, IMO.
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: Hillbilly on September 25, 2008, 04:50:36 pm: (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hillbillync/Other%20Stuff/eek.gif)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/hillbillync/Other%20Stuff/blink.gif)
That bites the big one, Ralph-it was looking great.
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: bootboy on September 25, 2008, 07:13:41 pm: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I that hella sucks my man!!
OOOH MY GOD!! Terrible!!!
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on September 27, 2008, 01:53:13 am: Jack ,just one big bang . ;D the lemonwood's break starts about 2 1/2" from the handle build up ,and the very points of the longest hickory splinters are almost even with the edge of the fade in the handle section.

It's no so bad ,the fun is in the making .And there was a lot of making in this one .
So as soon as I find some very straight grained wood ,I'll start again . I'd like to glue up several cores this time using different wood combinations .

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: The Burnt Hill Archer on September 28, 2008, 03:14:18 am: well, i admire your spirit about the whole thing. :'( but the good news is that ya got the failure on film! good job on that ;D

Phil
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: medicinewheel on September 28, 2008, 05:54:01 pm: Quote from: welch2 on September 27, 2008, 01:53:13 am
...
It's no so bad ,the fun is in the making .And there was a lot of making in this one .
So as soon as I find some very straight grained wood ,I'll start again . I'd like to glue up several cores this time using different wood combinations .

glad you can look at it that way!!

frank
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: DirtyDan on October 04, 2008, 11:37:29 am: Thanks for a great "journey" through the process. I had a gemsbok/osage/bamboo reflex/deflex that made it to the finals of the Ambush Bow Challenge, but finally exploded. I know how frustrating it is, but you learn something from each attempt. It makes you appreciate the craftsmanship and patience of the ancient bowmakers as they struggled to make efficient weapons out of natural materials. Congratulations on a great project.

Dan Spier
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on October 19, 2008, 04:36:33 am: Horn and sinew are always criticized for being to heavy.
Well I put the bow in the tub to soak off the horn and sinew .Look how high it's floating.

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/59c363471d6d05713fdc103036ff6f9e5a9a1f1d.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/1671691a04311a316abc2e78e158f14d964a8f24.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/9fd1691b003b1c3c676d4b6be2042388545de7a3.JPG)

(http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/f8326c813a0b536b14335b6f8af715506b7c79d8.JPG)

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: sonny on October 19, 2008, 10:00:38 am: horn and sinew are a fairly small percentage of that bow though, no ??
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on October 19, 2008, 11:09:29 am: About 1/3 the volume I think.

Ralph
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: michbowguy on October 19, 2008, 08:21:58 pm: will the sinew still have decent properties after its been colored,and leeched in water?
or will it "soak" up the hide glue once it dries again, just like new?

jamie
Title: Re: Egyptian composite build a-long
Post by: welch2 on October 19, 2008, 08:35:18 pm: Yes you can reuse the sinew .A couple folks tell me they like used sinew better.

Ralph