Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: grantmac on June 18, 2008, 03:10:12 am
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Alright folks I haven't done a build-along before and I have only made one other warbow before so this could be very interesting. It's not going to be a terribly heavy by warbow standards but it is something new for me. I glued it up tonight and I haven't yet taken any pictures so I'll start with the specs and the fancy stuff will come tomorrow night.
78" overall (possibly going to pike depending)
Shooting for 70#@28 and 85#@31, if those numbers sound way off please let me know.
Easter Red Cedar backed with Hardmaple. The ERC is 3/4" and the Maple 1/4".
Glued-up with just a touch of reflex using inner tubes and the local equivilent of Urac 185.
Tomorrow night will be roughing it out, taking pictures and starting to floor-tiller.
Cheers,
Grant
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I am looking forward to this. I hope it turns out good. What tiller are you going for. Compass or epileptical?
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I'm going to try for as close to compass as possible. Update tomorrow.
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Here is the update.
Here is the bow wrapped with innertubes. The piece of ERC had a bit of reflex so I decided to help it along by supporting it only in the middle and putting the backing down:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2945.jpg)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2946.jpg)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2949.jpg)
Here I am using some spring clamps and a bit of string to lay-out the centerline. I only mark it at important places like the tips and grip, this piece came out of the glue nice and straight so no adjustments are really needed:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2948.jpg)
Appearently most warbows have a very gentle side taper until the last 14" or so. So I'm just going to lay out the strong taper and cut that with my bandsaw, the gentle tapers will be done by eye with the surform and spokeshave as I floor tiller. I find tapers are best done with the naked-eye as opposed to just bringing it down to a line:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2950.jpg)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2952.jpg)
Tips are cut to 1/2" and will be brought down as skinny as possbile once the tillering is underway:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2953.jpg)
Well half of it is starting to look a lot like a bow:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2951.jpg)
Next installment will be floor tillering and starting with the long string.
Cheers,
Grant
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Its going great so far. Do you know if cherry will make a self bow war bow. I know it is strong in tension but weak in compression so i think if i leave it war bow length 75+" then it will be fine. What do you think?
Josh
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I'm not sure about cherry as I've never used it. In general a warbow likes to have compression strong wood.
I think I'll have the roughing out and a good start on floor-tillering by tomorrow night.
Cheers,
Grant
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Got it roughed out and floor-tillered (as much as you can with a bow this weight). I am currently debating on nocks for it. I think I'm going to go with just a sharply tapered end, small side-nock and use a sliding loop with a timber hitch for the bottom. Could make stringing interesting but we'll see.
Pictures later today.
Cheers,
Grant
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Update with pics:
For one thing it looks like the ERC is going to be just too soft for self-nocks so I'm waiting for the glue to dry on some Ipe back-nocks. Not terribly authentic but it will have to suffice. Also I managed to get a string on it at very low brace but getting it off of the side-nocks (was a running loop) was damn near impossible and it cut a small sliver of wood off the belly.
Here are the tips as they were just before I cut the small side-nocks:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2954.jpg)
This give you an idea of what belly profile I'm shooting for. It's a very rounded rectangle as some of the MR bows appear to be with rounded tips.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2955.jpg)
If anyone knows how far this is from historical accuracy I'd be pleased to make an adjustment at this stage in the game.
Here we are pulling about 6-7" on the tree. Estimating my weight to be around 60-70lbs so I have plenty of wood to make weight, now I need a heavier scale:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2959.jpg)
As always tillering input is greatly appriciate and I think I'll have it braced by tomorrow.
Cheers,
Grant
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this is going to be interesting. ive been wanting to try a heavy bow for a while now, maybe this'll help push me...
Phil
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grant, how do you like the erc so far? and where did you get it? windsor plywood? I see they still have some ipe boards out there...didn't ask the price, i was buying something else and it was closing time...do you remember the price of ipe per board foot? thanks
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ERC is great stuff. Very tiller sensitive though, you really don't want to do a first brace unless your 100% sure you don't have anything like a hinge. Wants to be a bit longer too which isn't a problem due to the light weight. I found it at Westwind, they have a bunch but it's very hard to find it clear. Can't go wrong for $3.50/BF though. I'm thinking about getting some selected lumber straight from the source in the US though.
As for that Ipe, it was $12/BF when I bought it. Good thing it doesn't take much to build a bow out of it. Going to try a Boo/Fir/Ipe tri-lam one of these days.
Cheers,
Grant
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Well it isn't tomorrow but I do finally have it braced to 5.5" and I'm fairly happy with the braced profile.
Top limb left:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2973.jpg)
Top limb right:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2974.jpg)
Drawn about 15" top limb left:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2975.jpg)
Drawn about 15" top limb right:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2976.jpg)
Tillering help is greatly appriciated. I think I need to get the top limb working closer to the tip for now. I also need to come-up with a decent 100-150lb scale as this ha already broken my cheap 50lb one.
Cheers,
Grant
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I beleive that the Right limb is stiffer than the Left one....and both need to get more wood bending at midlimb outward towards the Tips
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Yeah the upper (white) limb needs to bend more out near the tip and I think the bottom one could stay pretty close to where it is. I'm going to pick-up a better scale today and that will let me know if I'm near my weight. The nice thing about tillering back to 31" is that it's easy to pick-up some more pounds at the end of the draw.
Cheers,
Grant
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nice bow
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i cant see anything wrong with it other than needing a little more bendyness mid limb. but i am far from a pro. nice dirtbike. just got off mine.
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I agree with recurve shooter. Take it off in the middle of the limbs as you increase the draw length a bit more. You'll get the hang of it!
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More work tomorrow. I finally found a scale that reads up to 110lbs. I didn't want to strain the wood too hard before I found one.
Cheers,
Grant
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Got it back to just over 28" and everything is looking good. Had the bottom nock cut-off by the boyers knot so I piked it 1/2" and switched to a bowline on that limb. I'm going to shoot it in a bit before taking it the last 3".
Cheers,
Grant
Here are some pics, top limb right:
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2983.jpg)
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2985.jpg)
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Quick update. It's been shot at 28" a bunch today and back to about 31" once. Also shows now 73# at 28" and 84# at 31" so it has reached my goal and no lost much of it's early draw weight! Now I need to go straighten some bamboo and make some full-length arrows for it. Has taken 1.25" of set immediately after shooting and I'm betting it'll end-up with just under 2" after shooting it in at 31" which is great (to me) for a bow that is not as long as I'd planned. I'm really pleased with the ERC/Maple combo and it looks fantastic with some Tung oil on it.
Cheers,
Grant
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Good going Grant! Cant wait to see the final pictures. Tung oil? Is that a good oil for sealing a bow with?
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well, i use tung oil, but what do i know?
i hand rub it in several times and it seems to be pretty good...
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I too have had success with tung oil... but I don't know too much either.
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Tung oil is nice stuff for bringing out the natural beauty of the wood. In the past it was all I used along with some hardening wax paste. However I just picked-up some wipe-on poly in satin and I'm going to use that over a few coats of tung.
I will try for a real FD picture tomorrow, just need to get the wife to time it right because I can't hold this one!
Cheers,
Grant
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Finally what you are all waiting for!
The full-draw :o
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/grantmac017/DSCN2988.jpg)
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:o man that turned out nice! cant wait to see it finished.
Phil
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Grant....you nailed that one....tiller looks great.....but....you look a bit on the Strained side there Boy.....let down and breath....... ;D
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yeah, you did a great job Grant...but El D is right...breathe, man, breathe!
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Great Grant! Glad to see it worked out well. Now SHOOT! Stop holding that arrow and SHOOOOOTTT!!! ;D
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Thats the "Power Grimace" boys ;D
I was actually suprised at how easy it is to use that weight after only shooting 50-60lbs. I think it's because the bow just doesn't stack and of course the long draw. That arrow is 34.5" from the base of the nock to the base of the point so I'm getting really close to 32".
I can't wait to get out to the range and give it a blast at 70m. As for finishing, it is pretty much done. Warbows historically didn't have grips and early ones didn't have horn nocks so this is it.
Next one I'm shooting for 95lbs and longer as I think this one is a little too short with self side-nocks (I've figured out where that went wrong).
Cheers,
Grant
P.S. D. Tiller, just saw your reply, thanks for all the help with this it made a huge difference. I can't shoot in that position, there is a stump there but a miss would make for very bad neighbourhood relations.
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Your right Grant...a True Warbow was just that....a Basic High Draw Weight Arrow Tossing Machine....No Frills...just Deadly....and I think you did a great Job of capturing that in this Bow.....I love it!! I just tie a piece of Rawhide around My Handle on them where the Arrow is set....this gives you a reference on where to lay the Arrow to keep it the same every shot....works for Me....might work for you too....
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Good Idea! I think I will do that tonight with my bow.
David
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I have found that shooting these sort of bows (I've made lighter ones) you don't really need a mark after a while. The arrows will leave a little mark and also as you get used to the bow you will change hand and nock position to where it feels best. When I'm shooting them in I don't even use a marked nocking point I just go by what looks right.
So far this bow has been great to shoot, especially with the heavier arrow I made. The tips are still about 1.5" behind the handle with the set very even. The next one will definately be at least 4" longer, maybe more. I have at least one rediculously larget piece that would make a 7' bow 2" wide! I'll save that for last.
Now all I need is to find some horn for nocks, although not until I get up to a weight that requires them.
Cheers,
Grant
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Grant that sure is a beautiful rendition of a long bow. Great job. I've never shot one but I bet it makes you feel like you are at Argincourt or whatever that famous battle was ( no offense to those that care). I'll bet that ERC belly is gorgous in real life.Once again great job. Danny
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Why thank you! I've got another bow along these lines mostly roghed-out and I'm looking forward to upping the weight and length some.
The ERC is definately lovely wood to work and to hold. Very warm and soft in the hand. Unfortunately it's also rather easy to dent. I'm going to try burnishing the next one to make it stronger.
Cheers,
Grant
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Dang, I feel another project coming soon.
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Grant, that is a great bow You made.
Excuse my ignorance, earlier in this thread an eliptical and kompass tiller was mentioned, could someone explane to me the difference between the above two?
Thanks in advance.
Boris
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It is a refernce to two different types of warbow tiller. Most bows are tillered to be eliptical with the tips bending most and the handle bending very little at full draw. Some warbows are tillered to the arc of a circle with much more bend in the handle. This is because there are some literary references to bows that (I'm probably misquoting here) "bend to the arc of the compass".
This bow is pretty close to an arc of the compass bend, it had to be to get the drawlength from it's relatively short length. In the future I will be making my bows longer and using a more eliptical bend.
Hope that makes sense,
Grant
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It sure does. Thank You Grant. ;D
Boris