Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DanaM on July 04, 2008, 03:34:46 pm
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Last year when I visited my brother in central New York I cut a wrist thick sapling of Sumac, not sure but I think it was Staghorn Sumac. Anyway thought I would give it a try.
One limb had about 6" of reflex and the other had maybe 2" so after getting the limbs bending some I put it on my new form which is modeled after Pappy's
and from Greg's engineering print. It took heat very well and after cooling I had 4.5" of reflex. 67" NTN and 1.5" wide, going for a D bow. Did some work on it
today and got it braced to 5.5" its pulling 38#@ 22" and just unstrung retains 1" of reflex which after awhile returns to 2". Tommow if possible I will put it back on the form and toast the belly.
After that is final tillering, going to go for 40#@26". I don't think there is enough wood to aim for more. The heart wood is quite striking its green.
Anyone else ever try Sumac? Any comments or critique is welcome :)
On the form
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/DanaMont/Bows/Sumac/Ontheform.jpg)
Off the form 4.5" of reflex
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/DanaMont/Bows/Sumac/Offtheform.jpg)
Braced
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/DanaMont/Bows/Sumac/Bracedat55.jpg)
38#@22"
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/DanaMont/Bows/Sumac/3822.jpg)
Just unstrung
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/DanaMont/Bows/Sumac/JustUnbraced.jpg)
And of course my dog Bocephus he supervised the whole thing ;D
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/DanaMont/Bows/Sumac/Bo.jpg)
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Looking good, Dana. The Pup is too.
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That looks great Dana....never would have thought of Sumac for a Bow!!!
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Its not a bow yet ;) Just a piece of wood that looks like a bow eh :)
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Looks like it is getting to bow fast. Justin
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Dana ya beat me to it!!! :D i had plans to try this wood this summer. Ive got gobbs and gobbs of it around, i was doing some research while you were testing it! looking good so far. unbacked right? this was my only concern with this wood as its kinda softish. im looking forward to seeing how it comes out!
you're officially my guinea pig! :D
Phil
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Wow Dana, that is looking like it has some real potential. Can't wit to see how it turns out. Keenan
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Was wonderin bout this myself, got lots of winged sumac cut and dryin for arrows but its got a spongy pith. Hafta cut some of the bigger stuff and see.....Brian
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Phil and Brian, make sure you have the sumac that Dana is using. China sumac (ailanthus) is garbage. Justin
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Nice Utilising the sumac. that isn't poisonous is it?Happy freedom day!PK
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Phil sorry to burst yer bubble ;) and yes its unbacked and it does have a pithy center, like a tootsie popl :)
Keenan ya never know until ya try eh ;)
Koan I have no idear about winged sumac, give it a try eh.
Justin you said it would take 20" of set, guess what yer wrong ;D
PK nope not poisonous :)
Its still just a piece of wood until it flings an arrow, its by no means premium bow wood, but it may be another option ???
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Phil and Brian, make sure you have the sumac that Dana is using. China sumac (ailanthus) is garbage. Justin
how do ya tell the difference between the two? and how many different kinds are there? a couple of good nubie questions there ;D
Phil
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Staghorn Sumac has round redish purple fruit.
Ailanthus sumac has little flat sead pods, pale green when immature and grey when mature and dry. Justin
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Keep the pics coming Dana, looks real good!
Rich
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Staghorn Sumac has round redish purple fruit.
Ailanthus sumac has little flat sead pods, pale green when immature and grey when mature and dry. Justin
The staghorn sounds like what we call here in Mo. winged sumac...according to MDC book. Looks almost like grape pods only smaller. It seems to grow in great bunches of shoots and grows very fast...I got some that are 2 yrs old and they are almost 2" across and 10'-15" tall.....Brian
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cant wait to se if this onw works out.
i know where i csn get all kinds of this stuff,some of it as old as i am. not ancient,but old enough to know better :D :D
thats really starting to look like a bow,hope it flings em;' well.
peace,
tim
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Ha, never would have thought it. A sumac bow huh.....That stuff grows all over here in the ditches and over grown farm land.
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Ryano I cut it in centarl NY, near Rome. It grow like a weed and I saw it all over in PA also.
I have it out to 43#@ 26" and it still relayes into a good 1" of reflex, shot about a dozen times and I have to say it shoots nice :)
Have to tweak it a bit yet and do some sanding and then I will post more progress pics.
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Well I have it out to 41@26" the tiller isn't perfect :( just unbraced its pretty much flat, I started with 4.5" of induced reflex so I guess for sumac its pretty good.
think I'm going to pike it 2" and redo the tips with overlays as the wood is fairly soft, also going to narrow the grip area a little for comfort. Probably put it on the form and toast the belly also. What ya all think??? Oh yea mass is 13oz
Braced
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/DanaMont/Bows/Sumac/Braced2.jpg)
41#226"
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/DanaMont/Bows/Sumac/4126.jpg)
Just Unbraced
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/DanaMont/Bows/Sumac/unbraced2.jpg)
Back Profile
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/DanaMont/Bows/Sumac/Back.jpg)
Belly
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/DanaMont/Bows/Sumac/Belly.jpg)
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Dana, it looks a touch hingy mid limb on the right limb in the picture. It could use some scraping from out side that area to the tip. Heat treating in some reflex couldnt hurt..... ;)
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Yea I saw that ryan theres a knot there and I need to get it bending a bit more from the knot out.
Going to pake it and add overlays also as the string is cutting in to the back.
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It should be a very striking bow with that yellowish heart wood and the white sapwood.
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Ryan its more green than yellow it didn't show in the pic. I cut an inch of each end and put it back on the form it has about 4" of reflex again.
Won't get back to it for a few days gonna let it rehydrate.
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Thanks for the info Justin. Ive only seen the one with the red/purpleish fruit around here. im deffinately going to give it a go now!
Phil
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Looks like this:
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Yep Dana, thats what I got...My tree book from Mo. Dept. of Conservation calls it winged sumac, go figure..do the seed pods droop on yours or do they stay upright like the pic? The ones I have here droop or hang down from the tree/ shrub???.....Brian
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Brian I cut this in New York so I have no idear, we have staghorn sumac here in yooperland but its small shrubby crap.
Sorry I can't be more helpful ???
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Ya Dana got both ways here..If I dont knock it down it goes from shrub to tree....Im gonna cut some and see ;).....Brian
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im glad to hear its comming allong. im not surprised it takes heat well though, being how its so soft. good luck man!
Phil
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That's been very interesting so far Dana. Like I need to add other woods to my collection - now your gonna have me eyeballing all the sumac thickets around here ;D..
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Interesting. I would have never thought Sumac would have made a bow. The Sumac I have cut had very little sapwood and mostly all green heartwood. It also had the most amazing black sap that oozed from the cut that stuck to everything and refused to come off the hands without some serious scrubbing
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Cool bow Dana. Good to see new woods being tried. I have a big(about5") sumac tree I've been meaning to cut. Maybe we'll do a sumac bow competition at the Camp-O-Rama. ;D 8)
Cowboy, If you start eyeballing sumac patches while you drive you might end up in one as many as there are. :o Pat
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Marc this one also is mostly green sapwood, don't remember about the sap.
Pat have at it, nice thing about sumac is it grows back overnight :) >:(
Like I said it ain't a bow yet although I did shoot it a couple dozen of times.
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Dana, did you burnish the back at all, or is it just as you cut it? and also did you work it like a whitewood, just take the bark off and go, or did ya have to chase a ring? sorry for the 20 questions, but you are my guinea pig after all ;)
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Peeled the bark bandsawed it in half and sealed the back and ends. Didn't burnish the back. No problem ask all the questions ya want.
Not sure when I will get some more time to finish it, I'm curious to see if it holds up or just continues to take more set ???
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well its seems to be holding up so far. ill be waiting! ;D ive got a couple of projects to finish up and then im on to sumac!
Phil
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Cool bow Dana !!
Did that Tag Alder ever work out for you ?
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John the Tag Alder is still drying and will be a winter project :)
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8) ;D
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I put overlays on and finished tillering today and shot about 50 arrows out of it and guess what its a bow.
I have the weekend off so will get er done and post pics asap :)
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Who'ed a thunk it. Good work and add another tree to the list. Frank
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Can't wait to see it Dana. 8) Is it still holding a straight unstrung profile?
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I think I read somewhere that sumac can be poisonous
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thats a different kinda sumac im pretty sure. kudos on gettin it done Dana. cant wait to see that green wood!
Phil
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Ryano its at 38#@26" and holds a good inch of reflex :)
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Sumac :o I would never have thought to use that. Way to go Dana.
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Very cool Dana, looking foward to the pics. I really like seeing all of these different woods being used. It keeps it interesting and keeps me thinking.
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Dana, thats great!!
I went for a boat / hike trip up the columbia river yesterday - had my hand saw in my backpack (of course). There's groves of sumac up in those desert canyons - but for the life of me, I couldn't find a single one that was remotely straight enough to even consider for a bow. Not even for a snakey bow. They grow like vines.
You wouldn't happen to have a before picture of your stave, just after it was cut, would you?
Anyone ever try Elderberry? There are some very big "trees" of this stuff up in there too. I'm going to go find one and give them a try too - I know they're pithy inside, but some of these were 6 or so inches in diam. There must be some good wood around the pith on those.
Anyway, Dana, I love that bow - and your drive to try the new wood.
Mike
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Sorry Mike but I never took a before picture, not sure what type of Sumac you have up there but I'm pretty sure this
one is Staghorn Sumac. As for the elderberry I would try it, matter of fact send me one ;D
All I have left now is to seal the bow(and of course I'm out of true oil) and make a string then I can get the money shots up :)
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I guess the kind we have here is called Smooth Sumac - but sure looks similar to the picture posted on this thread. I guess that may be why they're both have 'sumac' in their name, huh? :)
So was your stave pretty straight to start with? That is, not major curves that you had to deal with anyway?
I'm gonna keep looking
Great bow - I'll be watching this thread to see how you like it.
Thanks again.
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most of the staghorn we have around here is almost pipe strait. some with a gentle curviness to em, but mostly just strait.
Phil