Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => HowTo's and Build-a-longs => Topic started by: ricktrojanowski on August 24, 2008, 10:12:55 pm
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After seeing Jamie's "stoned elm" bow I decided I really wanted to give a stone age bow a go. He was kind enough to help me get started on one this past Sat. We chose Which Hazel (Hamamelis virginiana). We chose this because we found some really nice small trees that appeared free of twist and knots. Also to give another type a wood a try. You will have to bear with me on this build along. It is my first and I'm really really low on free time. I'll post as I go but a finished bow is going to be a ways down the road.
I used the following tools so far.
1 A large piece of heat treated flint with a crudly knapped edge(my knapping skill level) Used for the initial cutting and heavy work
2 2 smaller hand axes one of noviculite and the other of flint much nicer and thinner (Jamies handy work) for more fine chopping
3 Antler tines and big rock for splitting the stave in two pieces
4 Obsidian flakes for scraping and outlining the bow.
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;D
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After selecting a tree I cut it down using the big "hand axe" . Initially making a notch on the tension side then eventually cutting around the entire trunk cutting on the newly created edges. Then the tree was bent giving it a split between the tension and non tension sides. Once down it was cut to approximate length. Then a small silent prayer was said for the dead tree.
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more pics
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Then I debarked the tension side. Using an obsidian flake to make some light cuts then stripping the bark off.
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Next the stave was split using antler tines and a rock. Antler tines provided by Jamie (I can't manage to shoot a doe let alone anything with tools on its head) The tension side was saved and the bottom discarded.
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The basic layout was next. I used a piece of burnt wood to draw a centerline on the stave. Then using a piece of bark as a gauge I marked the edges of the bow with a obs. scraper. I didn't want to use a tape measure so I don't have any numbers on length or width. The width is about two of my thumbs( about 1 5/8) and the length is up to my chin (maybe 60- 62 inches). I cut to the lines with the big axe and the nice smaller ones.
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Then Jamie and Mike stood around looking at me as if I were some kind of idiot. ;D. More to come. Next I will reduce the stave to floor tiller dimensions. Bind it to something to keep it from twisting to H@$!. And let dry.
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Cool! I've got plenty of Hamamelis virginiana along my creek. I've got antler tines, a few stone tools. What the heck am I waiting for! :o ::)
Thanks for posting your project. You've got the best teacher available. ;) Looking forward to your progress. 8) Pat
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im very impressed with both ricks enthusiasm and the witch hazel. seems very dense, similar to cornus florida. peace
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Awesome Rick, I can't wait to see this thru. Like Pat said, your lucky to have such a skilled teacher. Good Luck.
Would you mind breaking down the time you spent on each task? thanks
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Making me sweat watching you hard at work ;D. Good post, I'll stay tuned in.
Tracy
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Great thread, Rick. I see what you guys decided to do when you got together at Jamie's club this month. Life just got in the way for me, and too many honeydos to count.
I will be watching this thread, very inspiring. Making a stone aged bow sounds like the best of all worlds, tons of work but tons of fun and satisfaction, and a truly primitive weapon at the end of it.
Dane
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This will be very interesting to keep up with Rick, and I agree - ya couldn't have a better tutor. Don't look like Jamie's breaking a sweat there though ::) ;D.
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paul its good to be the elder >:D i tapped on rock while rick worked his tail off ;D hazel looks to be a very nice wood. was very dense. i took a couple chops at it compared to all the woods ive put stone too it was very dense. he's earning this bow for sure. peace
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Very cool thread! I've been wanting to try making an all-stone tool bow for some time now, and this thread has given me new inspiration. BTW, I had the opportunity to handle a witch hazel bow made by Scott Silsby a few years back. He handed it to me with the instructions to just hold it by one tip with my first two fingers plus my thumb. When he let go of his end, I was able to hold it horizontal to the ground with just those fingers; really light wood, in addition to being tough. Pretty much all of the witch hazel I've seen growing has been too twisted for a bowstave, but Silsby got very secretive about where his "special stand" was located.
Will
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No work on the bow tonight. Hopefully I'll get it to floor tiller by the weekend. I'm definitly lucky to have Jamies help on this project. The stone tool work is much toughter than with steel(No suprise there). Although it's tougher, so far it's much more peacefull and enjoyable. I guess because I'm not too worried about a "perfect" wall hanger. Maybey because it feels more natural ? Dingleberry so far I would say that all the steps presented took me about 7 or so hours? There was a lot of B.S. ing while working not to mention eating and turkey chasing. ;D
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Gonna be a great build along Rick, I think this should take priority over any and all honey do's ;D
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Cool build along,I agree with the rest on the teacher,can't wait to see the finished bow. :)
Pappy
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dude this is going to be so cool wathcing you do this with stone tools. 8) 8)
you guys already got me wanting stone tools si that i can give it a try on a sapling
tim
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I am enjoying this imensely. Keep it coming more more.R.C.
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OK- I did some late night bow work by lantern light last night. I noticed a end check of about 2" at one end of stave. I went into full panic mode and decided I needed to get this thing stabilized and drying nicely. In order to do that I needed to reduce the thickness of the stave. In a policy of full disclosure I have to admit that I did something not so primitive. I sealed the ends and back right away with wax. I figured it was better than losing the stave. Next time I will have some prim. sealer to use right away.
First I made a gauge by scoring an antler tine at the depth I wanted. Then holding the mark at the high point of the crown, I marked the wood with a piece of burnt wood blacking out any wood I wanted to remove. Using the same tools as in the previous step I chopped away. Starting at the edges leaving a "pyramid" at the center of the belly. Then removing that. Wanting a D style bow, I reduced it to about 3/4" the whole length slightly thicker in the center. Kind of thick, but it was bending, and the wood was really pulling not shaving. So I figured it would be best to get to closer dimensions when the wood would shave not pull.
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Bow building the hard way Rick - I love it!
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Man thats dedication or is that addiction ;)
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nice hat ;D
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Dana- I don't know either, I guess just stupidity.
Jamie- The head lamp is my savior, I can pretty much do anything nocturnal (just ask my unhappy neighbors) ;D
I got the stave "clamped down" to another one with lots of natural reflex, I'll post some pics tomorrow.
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Looking good! Wouldn't worry about wax, naturally present.
Tracy
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Wax not primitive? Granted, not in North America, but bees have been around a very long time... It doesn't take very long chewing on that sweet honeycomb before you realize you end up with a nice wad of wax...
Keith
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Sweet little project. You better be careful what you let Jamie teach you. ;) Justin
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I agree about the wax being prim, just not the way I got it..... A can of Thoroseal. ;D.
Sweet little project. You better be careful what you let Jamie teach you. ;) Justin
You're right everytime I meet up with him I got something else that I just have to try.
I strapped the hazel down to a Black Walnut stave that I had. It had a ton of natural reflex so I thought that maybey if it dried on this stave it would hold some reflex? We'll have to wait to see. I used some elk and deer buckskin straps with some pieces of viburnum(not to worry Jamie not the ones you gave me.) and one of my kids lincoln logs. I just made a small "knot" and wound it up to tighten. The elk worked much better because the skin was thicker.
Now I have to wait for it to dry. I was going to do it all naturally, but I think in the name of moving this build along forward I will put it in the hot box after a couple of weeks air drying. I know this is definitely not primitive, but drying is drying and I want to get working. What do you guys think? While waiting I'm going to attempt a dogbane string. I'll post this as well since a bow isn't much good without a string.
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That'll cure out just fine Rick and hold the reflex until you start tillering - if it's anything like Hic. Your right ya need a string - would be the time to work on it :).
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cool project. i agree with cowboy, some belly tempering would help keep the reflex. but im sure youve got things all figured out. ;D
Phil
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Sort of figured out, Kind of learning as I go.
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Coming along nicely rick :) I just cut a bunch of dogbane yesterday, at least I think it was dodbane anyway it has fiber in it
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So far the stave has been drying about 1 week in the basement at about 75 degrees at 50% Rh. I moved it to the hotbox tonight at 90 degrees 40-45%Rh. I figure I'll give it about 1 week in the box and it should be good working on. I know this isn't too stone age but I'm anxious to get working. The string is coming along. I have about 1/2 the fibres I need( At least I hope ???) As soon as I get enough cleaned up I'll make the string and post it.
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Can't wait to see that, have never made a string from natural fibers.
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dude this is going to be awesome.
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I pulled the hazel out of the hot box tonight and took it off of the other stave. It retained much of the reflex. Also developed some side to side "out of wackness". I should be able to bend it in the handle over some heat to line up the tips. I was suprised just how much mass it lost. I'm going to have to remove quite a bit of wood to get it bending again. But I wanted to be safe than sorry. Also finished about 1/2 the string. It's my first and quite a learning curve. I hope to get scraping and string making tomorrow. I'll post some pics as soon as the wife gets back with the camera.
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Hazel is one of my favourite woods to work with, soft and i love the smell. I have it in abundance round here but most of it is small, and when its big its knarly but the few bows i have of hazel shoot quick and are good.
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Hazel is one of my favourite woods to work with, soft and i love the smell. I have it in abundance round here but most of it is small, and when its big its knarly but the few bows i have of hazel shoot quick and are good.
Thats good to hear. Sorry for the slow progress. Just been super busy with everything else. I'm hoping to finish the string and get some scraping done by the end of this weekend. I messed around a bit with a obsidian flake and was amazed at how nicely it was cutting. Might just have to throw out my steel tools.........NOT ;D
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Might just have to throw out my steel tools
sounds like a great idea
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Hazel is one of my favourite woods to work with, soft and i love the smell. I have it in abundance round here but most of it is small, and when its big its knarly but the few bows i have of hazel shoot quick and are good.
Thats good to hear. Sorry for the slow progress. Just been super busy with everything else. I'm hoping to finish the string and get some scraping done by the end of this weekend. I messed around a bit with a obsidian flake and was amazed at how nicely it was cutting. Might just have to throw out my steel tools.........NOT ;D
I find its best if you take it slow and stick to how you said you'd do it. Once or twice I've brought out the power stuff and ruined bows. Not again ehh... ;)
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Slacker! ;) Your right about the head lamp Rick. I don't know how primitive people survived without one. One of my favorite tools ever. Cool post.
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Any progress ???
Keep us updated...
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Sorry nothing lately. All I've done is gotten more fibers for the string. Which is about 3/4 done. And cleaned up the stave a bit. I scraped all of the torn fibers off the belly. The initial reduction of the wet stave left it really rough. As I keep saying .......Hopefully some more progress this weekend. ;D
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The stone age witch hazel is not dead. I finally am getting a chance to work on it again. I started laying out the outline on the back of the bow. I'm using a dogbane string as a measuring device.( It was supposed to be the bow string but failed miserably). Also a small piece of burnt wood as a marking tool. I'll try to get some new pics up this week of the reduction and straightening of the bow. It has quite a bend in it. I was going to try to bend it through the handle over our outdoor fireplace in order to get the tips and handle to line up.
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I have the bow marked out for shaping the handle and limb tips. I used a really poor attempt at a dogbane string for this. I first stretched it from end to end then folded in half to get my center point. I made about a 3 1/2" handle with fades about 1 1/2" or so. I'm not using a tape measure so I don't have exact numbers. Then I started the taper of limb 2/3 of the distance from the fade to the tip. Using the string again as pictured. As you can see the stave needs some major heat bending in the handle to get the string to track over the center of the handle.
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more pics.
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Very cool. 8)
I'm curious about the string...was it too thin?
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Bow building the hard way - I'm glad it's not dead :). I've been tinkering with cordage myself here lately, wondering about that string also?
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My first attempt I used a method I found in an old issue of Prim archer. Basically you get enough fibers to span about 24 feet that would be the thickness of 1/4 of the finished string diameter. You then tie off one end of a bundle, splice another bundled then another until you get to a 6' mark then wrap it around something stationary and go back to the point where you tied off. Now you have 12 feet. Then work your way back to your 6' mark wrap it and back to your point of origin now you have 24 feet. Then unwrap so you now have a 24 foot straight string. Twist until it kinks than fold and now you have 12 feet reverse twisted. Then repeat that and you have 6 feet again reverse twisted. The magazine explains this much more clearly than I do. ??? When I did this then tested it the splices kept ripping out. I was really PI@@ed. That was a lot of fiber. And a lot of time. The string I am making now is more like the TBB shows. Basically a Flemish twist staggering splices like you would do with sinew . Much easier and hopefully much stronger. I am sure the way in the Prim. archer article describes works, but I must have missed something. Here are a couple pics of the unfinished new string.
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Looks good. I've had good results with sisal fiber using the flemish twist as you describe...haven't tried dogbane, though. I make my sisal strings a bit thicker than 1/8" and it seems to work well for short bows less than 55#.
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Looking good Rick, I have a bunch of dogbane processed but have done anything with it as of it, If ya run short
let me know and I will send it to ya :)
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rick i made a half dozen strings before i got one to stay togetehr. your doing great keep it up. next we'll work on the arrows ;D
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Here are a couple of pics on the handle shaping. I used a few different obsidian flakes and a "foot vice" which Jamie showed me how to use. I have since forgotton the correct way of doing this. Oh well this worked out pretty well. I have learned a new appreciation for my regular woodworking vices. Tomorrow I will start reducing the tips.
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After struggling with some less than ideal obsidian flakes for shaping the handle I decided that I would "make" some new tools. This involved little more than me bashing some nice rocks of Obsidian that I got from Eddie (Mullet). There was no real plan, just smacking and hoping something good came out of it. I was pleasantly surprised when I got some really nice new scrapers and other tools. All this with absolutely no knapping skills. Just dumb luck. The first pic is of my favorite three new tools. The one on the left is a little hand axe that I used to get the bulk of the wood off with. The center is the saw for cutting the limb tips to length. The right one is a awesome scraping blade that I would put up against any steel tool.
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First using the mini hand axe. Second using the saw. Not as quick as the Japanese pull saw but it worked.
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The shaped tips.
A side note. Jamie told me not too worry about keeping the tools sharp. That they sharpen themselves when you use them on the wood. I now know what he meant. Lots of tiny tiny flakes keep popping off and the result is blood loss. I would wear gloves but that would totally kill the primitive mojo. ;D
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Isn't it a little early to be painting that bow? ;)
Looks like you're making progress....you're a lot more patient than I am.
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Its coming along rick, I would have broke out the power tools by now :o ;)
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That thing is starting to look pretty cool. How do you get Kristin to let you work on it in the house? Dana got really mad at me when my wood shavings migrated to the laundry area. And I wasn't even bleeding on stuff :D
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Jackcrafty- Not patient just stubborn ;D
Dana- Don't think it hasn't crossed my mind, but it's fun in its own weird way.
Aaron- It's actually the basement, I finished the whole thing off a while ago, back when all I used it for was riding the rollers for hours and hours watching cycling vids. Man I wish I could get some of that time back. ::)
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Well at least you are marking the bow as your own... ;)
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I did some heat bending tonight. It was the first session. I will have to do a little more tweaking when I get it working and bending. Before the bending if I laid a string from tip to tip the string was about 2 1/2'' off center in the handle. After this session of bending it is about 5/8" off center. I had to bend the handle area as well as both limb tips. Although the outdoor fireplace is not that primitive I think it was close enough. Also I just happened to run out of bear grease today so I had to substitute "Crisco". :D Basically I did the same as if I was using a heat gun. Greased up the area to be bent. Then heated it for about 20 mins. Until it was too hot to hold. Then stuck it in the crotch of a big oak and over-bent the area and held it until it felt cool.
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Befor and After.
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Looks like it worked to me Rick :) Gotta admire your determination
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yeah buddy !!!! if building bows with stone was work i wouldnt do it, i hate work. i find it relaxing and meditative O:)
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It definitely has a different feel that working with steel tools. I feel much less critical about what happens. I'm already planning my next attempt. ;D
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Just a quick update. I've been scraping the belly, tapering for thickness, and getting the bow bending. I learned something very valuable tonight. I was scraping with my "best" scraper and it broke. I was pretty bummed out until I tried one of the broken halves . WOW....Now I see what I should be looking for in a scraper. It broke at a near 90 degree angle and shaves off wood so effortlessly. This may be obvious to some but I'm pretty slow when it comes to these stone and obsidian tools. Some of the original lateral bend in the stave creeped back. So I guess I will be doing more heat bending than I hoped to. I figure I will get it bending easily and try to straighten it again.
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Any more??? :)
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Sorry it has been shelved for a bit. Hunting season and I'm making some arrows for a change of pace. I'll get going on it again as soon as season is over. I think I should have it completed by the next stone age. ;D
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I would wear gloves but that would totally kill the primitive mojo. ;D
Would it not be acceptable to hold the cutting tools in pieces of animal hide? Stone age people must have known how to protect their hands.
Ghost
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I'm sure stone age man did know how to protect their hands, but I figure if I do every thing without gloves they will in turn become gloves. ;D
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OK I finally got working on it again. Maybey it will be done for turkey season. ;). I'll post some pics when things start happening.
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really cool Build-a-long :)
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Well hunting season is over and I'm ready to get going on the bow again. I should have just worked on bows and not hunted. I would have killled the same number of deer.... NONE. I'm starting the tillering process removing wood off the belly and shaping the limbs a bit more. I still have to heat straighten again to align the tips but this time I will wait until it is closer to final tiller. Just using obsidian flakes. Not using the foot vise because I feel I have more control just scraping over the knee. The flakes cut fast although they dull quickly. The foot vice worked good for rougher work but I like this better at this stage.
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how do you plan to figure the draw weight. I've seen people use rigs and pullies but even though they invented the wheel, I'm pretty sure primitives didnt get that far.
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Looks good so far Rick, glad yer back at it :)
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Draw weight UGGGG ARGGG PLENTY STRONG !! ;D
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if it shoots an arrow past your feet its strong enough
actually after youve made afe wbows you can get pretty good at gguessing draw weight.
most bows i have made have been from 45-55 lbs,now i can get close enough to that during tillering,the last bow i made never even seen scale
i would say that one shhots about 45lbs.the one i am making now dodnt even get any long string tillering,all floor tiilering untill i could get it braced(just as an experimment)tiller looks good so far too.i'll bet that at the 16" its pulling right now its at about 65lbs
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Looking good Rick. :o Nice bow too. ;D
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Caveman- I'm going to go by feel for the final draw weight. I'm hoping to make it come in about 45-50#. I'm planning on floor tillering until its pretty close feeling. Then stringing and just going by eye. The tillering tree is on standby for this one. ;)
A side note ....I talked to Jamie today and told him about my obsidian dulling problem. He suggested using some chert or flint instead. So I busted up a big cobble of some kind of flint that I had on hand. I got a bunch of nice scraping blades (in spite of my complete stupidity when it comes to busting stones). I gave a few of them a try tonight. :o Much better. I wish I had tried this sooner.
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Can anyone give me any idea of how to identify rocks for knapping? I'll make a post with some pics of what I got within the next day or so. I've heard of all these rocks to use but I have no idea how to indentify them. I may even be using them right now and not know it. I ask because I'm about to start a bow myself using only abo tools.
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I've been scraping a little here and a little there every night and it's starting to bend quite a bit now. These pics are a bit redundant but I'm getting excited about the progress so I thought I would post them. Also is a picture of some of the new scraper blades which are working much better than the obsidian for this stage. She has quite a bit of prop. twist but I can't turn back now. I am already thinking about my next stone bow and I'm not even close to finished on this one... ;D
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nice job man. what do you plan on the draw weight?
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I am hoping to get it around 45# at 27" I'm just about to get back to it. Just finishing my sons bow.
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Very nice report on your bow. I like the patience you displaying on this project. I don't have that kind of patience! Great job! I look forward to see the finished project.
Wells
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Thankyou Wulamoc. I have lots of patience but little time. I hope to live long enough to see the fished bow. ;)
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Great thread you have going, even if you are elderly when you finish :) Maybe your son can take over one day.
A stone bow is definately something I'd like to tackle one day, Rick. Thanks for showing the way with your own work.
Dane
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Looking good Rick. It looks like you are a cycling nut like myself(posters) and so this should be a piece of cake! ;D
Tracy
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dane if you come back down for the gathering we'll get you started on one.
rick speaking of cycling bring your bike next time and we'll go for a spin. gettin the serotta tuned up. hopefully the legs still spin circles. bows looking good brother
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That would be awesome Jamie. I will definately come again this year. That event is a highlight for me.
I thought you had disappeared. Good to see you still here.
Dane
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i did disappear but im back. its a houdini thing i keep trying out ;D
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Jamie
Let me know when your ready for me to come up. I'll bring the bike. It will be a nice break from all the running. I will be peddling squares for sure. I have to bring this bow up there for some help straightening it out. Plus I've been sidetracked again on another project. ;)
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Soooooo did this bow ever get finished or .....
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I'm also a bit curious of how the stone age witch hazel turned out, it's been 5 years so I figure it's either done or broke by now.
In any case this thread has made me want to wander the creeks and attempt to find some witch hazel to make some bows out of, but I probably will take a more modern route of making it ;).
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When is this going to be finished? I love seeing this, I do use the EXACT same methods... if u call a small knife a rock and 150 grain piece of sanding paper the same. :)
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Well is it? Wow, it has been a long road. Uh, what happened to the pictures?
Wayne
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looks interesting, but where did the pics go....????