Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: Arthur Herrmann on September 06, 2008, 11:00:40 pm
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Um, I have been shootin alot lately, and I am no good. I am using either a short d-bow, or a long d-bow. I am using plastic nocks, so I get a clean release. The string is centered.
My arrows, haven't been spined, because I have no clue how to do that. Everthing else in my tackle has been directly copied off of Kegan.
So, I guess my question is, how do you shoot. How can I become accurate, so that I can kill a deer that is not 5 feet away from me.
Oh, and I have never been five feet away from a deer.
My dad is a comounder, so he uses his fancy carbon fiber machine, and can consistently drill the target at 30 yards. I can't continue to embarrass him, myself and the neighbors. Well, I don't really care what the neighbors think. But even still, I have no technique, and no accuracy.
Maybe I could try y'all's style, and see if I can make it work.
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Without properly spined arrows you will find it very hard to shoot accurately. All bows are inherently accurate. So either your arrows aren't correctly spined or you're not concentrating on each shot but just going out and shooting. I would bet it is your arrows. Pat
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Or maybe Kegan cant hit anything either LOL. Trap
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exactly what mr. B said.... spine...or maybe your not catching the hang of instinctive shooting yet...its a focus thing...plus practice makes good so practice as much as possible, plus we all have our bad days...
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Or maybe Kegan cant hit anything either LOL. Trap
I would beg to differ ;).
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I do not have $100 bucks sittin around to buy a spine tester. How do I make a home-made one?
Kegan has a technique of shooting from a really far distance, but it is hard for me to find a good lane to shoot in, where I have a backstop.
Also, is Instinctive the best method? I'd be happy if I were accurate at 30yds, so Instinctive could work for me. Could somebody explain how to do it in detail?
People say you just concentrate, then shoot. If that's it, then how do people write books on how to shoot instinctively?
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Arthur i dont have a spine tester either...now i bought shafts from a dealer that sells them tested already and i "spine" mne by seeing how they shoot...instinctive...i cant explain, i would try but i cant think about it for some reason...i just do it...someone on here will know
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If you have other arrows of different spine you can use, you can make a simple spine tester that will get you in the ball park. Drive 2 nails in a board(edge of work bench) 26" apart and level with each other. Place an arrow of known spine on the 2 nail and hang a weight from the center(officially you will need a 2# weight but for comparison it doesn't matter as long as it is constant) and mark the deflection. That will be your mark for that spined arrow. Then do the same with a different spined arrow, and so on.
For correct spine reading your arrows should be 28" from the nock to the back of the point. Any length over or less than the 28" you subtract or add 5# of spine weight per inch. Also this spine weight is calculated with a 125gr point there is a value to add or subtract with points that are less than or more than 125gr. but I'm not sure what those values are.
Instinctive shooting is being able to look where you want your arrow to go without outside conscious reference points. Like throwing a baseball or football. You look where you want it to go and that is where it goes when you throw it. It is hand/eye coordination. I believe G.Fred Asbell's book about instinctive shooting is one of the best out there. Instinctive shooting does take lots of practice and patience but it is something that anyone can do if they put their mind to it. I like instinctive shooting because I don't have to think about yardage except what is too far away to shoot at. You must first get the fundamentals of shooting down first so you don't have to think about them when you shoot. Pat
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I read Kegans way of spining arrows by shooting them a hunnerd yards or so and taking the ones that go left or right blah blah blah. You gotta have good form already for that to work and be able to repeat your hold and more importantly your release time and time again. Until you do have that build a spine tester or do as was suggested and get some arrows of known spine, try a few to figure out which fly the best at a closer distance and then match the rest of your arrows to that one.
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Pat B- What are the fundamentals of shooting?
My parents won't let me buy again until Christmas. So I will have to make a spine tester.
I made a green stick bend with shoe string rope, and called it my first bow. Now I have tools, machines, and a total of 4 working bows. I have yet to read fundamentals, or these other concreate ideas that every shooter must know.
So I was hopin you guys could help.
Oh, and I no longer use green wood, or shoe strings.
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all i can say is " be the arrow ",where did i hear that before?
visualize the shot and then shoot it, least thats what works for me
oh and practice good form when learning is of utmost importance,couldnt tell ya what good form is especially without seeing ya shoot,and the fact mine isnt very good lol
good luck
tim
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My next question is, where in the wild web is the best plans for a spine tester?
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There is some plans for homemade ones in the arrow section. Do a search for spine tester.
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I have been fortunate to harvest many big game animals with unmatched spine arrows ... I try to match my spine to my bow nowdays but for years I shot a selfbow and arrows with different spine... practice, practice....practice... and get as close as you can... you will find through practice which arrows shoot where and you will soon be hitting the mark... the main problem with arrows that are too heavey of a spine or too light of a spine is your penetration will be greatly reduced... sharp points are a must... by wrapping some sinew around the shaft above the piont you can cure some of the wobble on lighter spined shafts..the forward weight helps to stabilize the arrow while in flight... hope this helps brother and keep at the practice... happy hunting HAWK.. A/ho
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You can make a simple spine tester with a liter soda bottle filled with water for a weight with a wire hook attached. Even if you don't have an arrow of known weight, just shoot the ones you have until you find the best one. Then sand them all to match that one using the nail and weight like Pat B said. And one other thing, if you want to continually be embarrassed, keep trying to shoot with compound shooters using accurate sites and 80% let-off. Practice shooting from 10 yards until you can consistently hit the same spot. then gradually keep backing up, that way you can see what kind of arrow drop you get from different distances. I purposely avoided the use of yardage, that's a target, compound shooter's obsession. If you have consistant good form you will shoot good. And 30 yards at a deer with Trad gear is a pretty good shot and a real wimpy one with the new compounds.
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heck ithink even with a compuond 30 yds is a good shot,atleast for me
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I know people consistently shooting 60 and 70 yards with the new Martins with all the bells and whistles.
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My last set of arrows were too heavy a spine but I shot them anyway. I could'nt hit worth a dime now. I'm having to reteach myself to not shoot to the right. Your really better off to get them matched to your bow before you learn bad habits. My accuracy has went way up since I got correct arrows. Also make sure you find a spot to anchor (corner of mouth, jaw line,cheek) just somewhere you pull back to each and every time. That really helps a bunch with up and down.
Wayne
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When I shot compounds alot 60 yds. was'nt too much of a problem. I felt comfortable shootin deer at 40+ yds. Now thats shrunk to like 15 yds. It really is quite hard to shoot with compound shooters especially when your first learnin.
Wayne.
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My dad is a compounder. I am the only hunter on my road, not inluding my dad. He wouldn't let me shoot infront of anybody, except my friends, because they get a real laugh out of my bows.
I don't see what is so funny, especially the time they saw me send a trade point so far into the end of a log, I couldn't get it out.
Had I fired the trade point at them, they really wouldn't be laughing. Just to let you know, I would never try and shoot anybody, because even a kids #20 recurve, at chest draw, can have devastating effects. Just ask Kegan.
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Every time I catch my self shooting poorly I go back to using my back muscles to pull the bow to a deep anchor and it makes the release good , do not move your bow hand till the arrow is in the target. Stiff arrows will shot to the left for a rt hand shooter and rt for too limber at 10-20 yards. If you can get one arrow that shoots well, try to coppy it, belive it or not you can get into the ball park by hand spining ( just bending them by hand and getting the feel for what works for you). If you can get Howard Hills book Hunting the hard way, Fred Asbells instinctive shooting, or Hit them like Howard Hill by Sholtz it will shorten the learning curve. But my best advice is to anchor deep and pull the bow with your back ( your arms are only attachments between the bow and your back. Oh and try to get a good shooter to coach you. Kenneth
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If you think about it, an arrow leaving a bow is the result of a lot of movement and energy released in an instant. You have to keep your focus and control through that "instant" that the arrow is loosed. I agree with the advice that Mullet and Little John gave you....practice form/technique up close to the target until you start hitting consistantly then move back.
I typically line up with the target with my bow arm outstretched and a little tension on the string. I'm focusing on where I want to hit through the draw, and try to have a consistent anchor which for me is a light touch of my middle finger to the back corner of my mouth. Remember that your anchor is like the rear sight of a rifle...if you vary your anchor point, you'll see the same variation at the target when your arrows reach it. I try to keep my elbow at least horizontal if not slightly higher, and mentally feel that I'm still on target when I release the arrow. Then I try my best to hold my bow arm solid with out dropping it until the arrow reaches the target (called follow-through). When it all comes together, the result is an arrow where I want it to go. I don't always control it though, and it is frustrating when I loose the arrow and know I've made a mistake even when trying so hard not to. Shooting well involves doing exactly the same process time after time. After you've shot your bow a lot, you'll know where to elevate your bow arm for the different distances...instinctively.
I used to shoot the Fred Asbel technique of swinging the bow up and drawing simultaneously, then releasing when hitting anchor. I like my current method better because I'm in line from the start without any sideways motion. Keep it smooth and when at full draw turn to granite from a movement standpoint.
Practice, practice, practice! ;)
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Sometimes I consider buying a compound... but then I slap myself! ;DI am a tree addict. I check out trees. Sometimes, my mouth waters at the thought of cutting my neighbors trees, which are always straighter and more of them than in my backyard!
I look at the comounds, and I can feel my instinct tellin me that not right, and my Great Grandparents turn over in their grave.
Then I realize that I am right where I belong. ;)
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Arthur, you are right where you belong. Guys like your Dad and his friends need guys like us around. I am a member of a hunting club in GA. This is the same 8 or so guys for the last 25 years on the same property. All of them shoot compounds, always have, always will. I have been shooting a trad bow at least since'86 or so(wheels before that) and have offered to make any or all of them bows if they would hunt with them. No takers...yet! ::)
I build and shoot bows for me! If they want to join me they are welcomed. We are all very good friends and will continue to share many memorable and pleasant camp fires together. ..but If for some reason I wasn't there any more, they would really miss me. ;) I would become one of those stories told around the camp fire over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. ::)
Don't let them bother you. Do it the way you want and do it well! they will respect you for your effort and successes. 8) Pat
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arthur.
never comform just to be part of the crowd.
do things your way and on your terms, you will not only be accepted but also respected for sticking to your ways.
peace,
tim
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At our shoot this weekend, we had a mixture of traditional and compound guys. One of the compound guys was a friend of mine I've known for 30 years or so. Way back then, I shot compounds with him some when we both were just getting started. I was checking out his archery equipment and he mine. Part of his equipment was a sheet with drawings of our type of 3D targets showing where the vitals were. He also had his binoculars, and I'm sure the best compound bow that money can buy. He looked at my HHB bow and cane arrows from a distance without comment. He is a trophy hunter, and I'm a deer hunter. He almost shot a perfect score, and I was far removed from that!
Each to his own!
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At our shoot this weekend, we had a mixture of traditional and compound guys. One of the compound guys was a friend of mine I've known for 30 years or so. Way back then, I shot compounds with him some when we both were just getting started. I was checking out his archery equipment and he mine. Part of his equipment was a sheet with drawings of our type of 3D targets showing where the vitals were. He also had his binoculars, and I'm sure the best compound bow that money can buy. He looked at my HHB bow and cane arrows from a distance without comment. He is a trophy hunter, and I'm a deer hunter. He almost shot a perfect score, and I was far removed from that!
Each to his own!
A trophy hunter that doesn't know where the vitals are? Huh ???.
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Interesting thread! I think Cowbow said it first: Get accurate at a short distance and then gradually move back.
Here are some things that helped me quite a bit with my shoooting:
-Shoot a bow with little or no handshock.
-Shoot only my best arrow....even if I have to walk back and forth from the target 100 times a day. Shooting the same good arrow 100 times is better than shooting 100 different arrows.
-Shoot at small targets. I like shooting at old stuffed animals or small boxes (less than 6" cube).
-Throw the arrow, don't fire the arrow. Don't use a bow like you use a rifle.
-No jerky motions.
-Get the ADD under control. (OK, the Attention Deficit Disorder is a personal thing...but focus is critical.) ;D
-Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K06akH9oAOI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K06akH9oAOI) (It's relaxing)
Hope this helps.
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To perhaps confuse things I take the time to purposefully aim each shot. I come to full draw and hold it for as long as 4-7 seconds to be sure I like my "site picture" before I let the arrow go. Some days I can hit a baseball at 15yds with 5 of 7 arrows. Other days I can not hit the side of a barn...go figure. I look down the shaft of each arrow with each shot and make sure it is on target on the "horizontal" plane then correct the vertical plane depending on how far I am shooting...it works most of the time but I have yet to take a shot on a living target...
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Guess what? After spining my arrows are getting my x- axis under control, my board bow breaks. My spare bow is too short and too heavy. I was good left to right, so I started working on my elevation.
I have a hard time getting my elavation under control. I read Fred G. Asbells book on form. With the long bow, does anybody else bend the elbow?
I read you're supposed to in the Bent Stick by Paul Comstock, and did it ever since. Man it sure helps me.
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I like a straight arm for shooting, with the bow sitting in the "crook" created between my thumb and my hand, with a slightly loose grip. It helps my alignment. However, a straight arm is different from a hyper-extended arm, which can hurt your joints and ruin your form.