Author Topic: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added  (Read 27115 times)

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Offline Wolfsongforge

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  • My name is Kenneth, and I am a bladesmith
Skraelings!

half eye

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..... ;D....leave it to a Viking

Offline ken75

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  • crepe myrtle is my "yella wood"
crap ! i just had a G2 overload !  ;)

Randy

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2010, 04:34:53 pm »
It would take a mighty strong man to wield a shield of one inch oak.  Here is link that says close to what I've read while reading "dry scholarly" works.
http://www.hurstwic.org/history/articles/manufacturing/text/viking_shields.htm

I wonder about the shield splitting capability of an arrow driven by an English warbow...


Offline aero86

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2010, 05:41:18 pm »
good info.  looks like an arrow would have gone through a bit..
profsaffel  "clogs like the devil" I always figured Lucifer to be more of a disco kind of guy.

Offline okiecountryboy

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Viking style armor piercing head
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2010, 07:34:37 pm »
From what i have read, they were 1/2" planks of linden, but also birch, and oak was commonly used. and correct they were layered 90 degree's from each other.
BUT only the richest of the warriors could afford a rawhide cover and backing for their shield.I have seen that head(well i made it lol) an d i have a few of Rich's heavy weight bows. and i have no doubt it could go through 2-3 layers of thinner panels with no problem. I guess there is only one way to find out. need to layer 2 thinner layers of wood and give er heck!

God Bless
Kenneth
COULD'NT AGREE MORE. I've got one of those rocket launchers that Rich made. Love that point. In a molle...Well...you got the power that is for sure...
BTW Rich, I'm gonna try and start scrapin next week on that 150#er you sent me LOL...

God Bless
Ron
God, honor, country, bows, and guns.

Offline half eye

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2010, 09:10:46 pm »
Ron, ya know it aint exactly a 150# now.......sides ya got a real good scraper, right?

Offline okiecountryboy

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2010, 11:11:01 pm »
just kiddin Rich.. ;D
Yep, got a good scraper.
Can't wait to see your new project you spoke of!!!  :o
Ron
God, honor, country, bows, and guns.

Offline stickbender

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2010, 12:44:06 am »

     I had a Danish ham....... ;D ::)

                                 Wayne

Offline stickbender

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2010, 12:57:43 am »

     Like it was said, oak is heavy, so the softer woods might have been used for light weight, and ease of working, with minimal tools.
Boiled leather, might have been used as a cover also, as it is quite dense. ;)
As for the Vikings not using flint heads, who knows if the person who shot the guy in the head, was a viking.  Like it was said, metal, was not a common item.  High quality flint was.   ;)  When it came to defense, they used what they had at hand.  It is a very effective point, especially if the person who had it lodged in his head was wearing a helmet! :o  But none of us were there, so it is all pretty much scientific conjecture.
                                                                                      Wayne

Offline okiecountryboy

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2010, 05:13:56 am »
Conjecture?!?
I think that particular post was a direct slam at a hell-of-a bow maker.......
Sorry...had to comment on the bow detectives. ;D ;D Did I type that out loud? ;D ::) ::) ;D ;D

Just wantin to bring a little fun to this?....?.....?....Did I mean to say that.......................................................

God Bless

Ron
The Okie
God, honor, country, bows, and guns.

Offline Loki

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2010, 02:47:01 pm »
The English used Lime wood for their shields.
Quote
Traditionally shields were made of linden (Lime) wood although other timbers may also have been used such as Alder and Poplar. These timbers are not very dense and are light in the hand. They also have a characteristic in that they are not inclined to split unlike Oak. Also, the fibres of the timber bind around blades preventing the blade from cutting any deeper unless a lot more pressure is applied. Round shields seem to have varied in size from around 45 - 120cm (18" - 48") in diameter but the smaller and more manageable 75 - 90cm (30" - 36") is by far the most common.

http://www.regia.org/shields.htm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilia
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 02:54:53 pm by Loki »
Durham,England

Offline bow-toxo

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2010, 03:43:10 pm »

     Like it was said, oak is heavy, so the softer woods might have been used for light weight, and ease of working, with minimal tools.
Boiled leather, might have been used as a cover also, as it is quite dense. ;)
As for the Vikings not using flint heads, who knows if the person who shot the guy in the head, was a viking.  Like it was said, metal, was not a common item.  High quality flint was.   ;)  When it came to defense, they used what they had at hand.  It is a very effective point, especially if the person who had it lodged in his head was wearing a helmet! :o  But none of us were there, so it is all pretty much scientific conjecture.
                                                                                      Wayne


 There are plenty of known Viking steel and iron arrowheads, spearheads, swords, axes, mail shirts and shield bosses around. We don't have to have "been there" to know that. Even the Danish bog find arrowheads hundreds of years earlier were iron with a few being bone. None were stone. The stone ones belong to the stone age. It isn't scientific conjecture, it is known fact.


                                                                                                                                Erik

Offline stickbender

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2010, 08:59:52 pm »

     Is it a known fact that every archer had iron, or steel points?  If they couldn't get iron, or steel, they just sat around till the some iron came their way?  Explain the " Fact" that a Viking had a triangular Flint arrow head in his Head.  Those that could get iron, I am sure that was all they used, and yes, they are in archaeological abundance, flint use has no definitive date as to the end of it's use.  Look at the ice man.  He had a metal (Copper) axe, but flint arrowheads.  The British, in the 1600's had cannons, and matchlocks on their ships, AND archers in the crows nest.  "With steel points"  ::) ;D.But like I said, who knows if the person using the flint head was a viking, or someone defending his life and home.  Just because iron was in use, doesn't mean that it was the only form of weapon points used.  There were peasants, even in viking times.  I am not in any way, trying to ridicule, or mock a "Superb Boyer", just that you simply cannot say that stone points were only used in stone age.  Tell that to the dead Viking with the stone point in his head, when you meet up with him in Valhalla.  Did a Cromagnon man shoot him?  There are archaeological finds that dispute earlier set in "stone"findings, and facts.  There were high quality stone knives, spear, and arrow heads found on the shores of North America, where there are Non Stoneage Viking settlements.  They ran out of metal, with no known sources of replacement, and they resorted to what they had at hand.  Why not for someone who did not have metal, or enough to use for arrow heads, use stone?  To definitively say that there were no stone points used in Viking times, in my opinion is a little hard to go for.  When the first cars were available, some people still perferred the horse.  Some could not afford a car.  I just don't believe that because iron was in wide use, that automatically, someone can say that there fore no stone was used there after.  Iron was indeed the preferred choice.  My preferred choice is a Lexus, but I cannot afford one. :(  Simply stating that since iron, chain mail, spear points, arrowheads, and "A"bone point was found that no stone was used, is kinda self defeating logic, since the fact the bone point was found.  Which is better bone or stone?  Automatically seeing a stone point and relegating it to the stone age, is not exactly correct science.  Point in short, iron artifacts are in abundance.  Stone points in Viking timelines are rare.  Iron was preferred.  Does not mean that stone was absolutely rejected.  What would you do if you were a peasant, and not a warrior, and had no ability to acquire iron?  Use a sharpened stick for defense?  I'd be out there doing my best to make some stone points, till I could kill a Viking and take his!  Archaeological "Facts" are constantly being rewritten, as more items are uncovered.  Like the time line when the first humans supposedly set foot on the N.A. Continent.  That has changed, and will be not doubt be changed again.  Just because there were no Pandas seen till the late 1890's or early 1900's in the Western world meant to them that it was just a silly Chinese myth.  Till they were brought to the West.  Then Scientific Fact was dissolved, and a new fact was made.
     I just can't accept that since more of one item was found, that therefore it is absolute, and irrefutable fact that a lessor object was never used in that time point.  I am   not saying that Vikings used stone points in their raiding forrays.  But that stone was still used by some people who could not acquire metal. When they could acquire metal, I have no doubt that they used the metal. Look at the Osage wagon seat springs that were used, because they didn't have access to, or couldn't afford the metal, and used something else that was effective, till they could get metal springs.  There never was or will be any intent to knock anyone on here irregardless of how much, or how little knowledge they have.  I just don't like the "Absolutes" that are too often used.  There will always be room for exceptions. ;)
     One good thing about this site, it do tend to elicit lively discussions, don't it?! ;D

                                                                                       Wayne

Offline bow-toxo

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Re: "shield-splitter" /Early Vikiing shield Archeological specifications added
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2010, 07:44:14 pm »

     Is it a known fact that every archer had iron, or steel points?  If they couldn't get iron, or steel, they just sat around till the some iron came their way?  Explain the " Fact" that a Viking had a triangular Flint arrow head in his Head.  Those that could get iron, I am sure that was all they used, and yes, they are in archaeological abundance, flint use has no definitive date as to the end of it's use.  Look at the ice man.  He had a metal (Copper) axe, but flint arrowheads.  The British, in the 1600's had cannons, and matchlocks on their ships, AND archers in the crows nest.  "With steel points"  ::) ;D.But like I said, who knows if the person using the flint head was a viking, or someone defending his life and home.  Just because iron was in use, doesn't mean that it was the only form of weapon points used.  There were peasants, even in viking times.  I am not in any way, trying to ridicule, or mock a "Superb Boyer", just that you simply cannot say that stone points were only used in stone age.  Tell that to the dead Viking with the stone point in his head, when you meet up with him in Valhalla.  Did a Cromagnon man shoot him?  There are archaeological finds that dispute earlier set in "stone"findings, and facts.  There were high quality stone knives, spear, and arrow heads found on the shores of North America, where there are Non Stoneage Viking settlements.  They ran out of metal, with no known sources of replacement, and they resorted to what they had at hand.  Why not for someone who did not have metal, or enough to use for arrow heads, use stone?  To definitively say that there were no stone points used in Viking times, in my opinion is a little hard to go for.  When the first cars were available, some people still perferred the horse.  Some could not afford a car.  I just don't believe that because iron was in wide use, that automatically, someone can say that there fore no stone was used there after.  Iron was indeed the preferred choice.  My preferred choice is a Lexus, but I cannot afford one. :(  Simply stating that since iron, chain mail, spear points, arrowheads, and "A"bone point was found that no stone was used, is kinda self defeating logic, since the fact the bone point was found.  Which is better bone or stone?  Automatically seeing a stone point and relegating it to the stone age, is not exactly correct science.  Point in short, iron artifacts are in abundance.  Stone points in Viking timelines are rare.  Iron was preferred.  Does not mean that stone was absolutely rejected.  What would you do if you were a peasant, and not a warrior, and had no ability to acquire iron?  Use a sharpened stick for defense?  I'd be out there doing my best to make some stone points, till I could kill a Viking and take his!  Archaeological "Facts" are constantly being rewritten, as more items are uncovered.  Like the time line when the first humans supposedly set foot on the N.A. Continent.  That has changed, and will be not doubt be changed again.  Just because there were no Pandas seen till the late 1890's or early 1900's in the Western world meant to them that it was just a silly Chinese myth.  Till they were brought to the West.  Then Scientific Fact was dissolved, and a new fact was made.
     I just can't accept that since more of one item was found, that therefore it is absolute, and irrefutable fact that a lessor object was never used in that time point.  I am   not saying that Vikings used stone points in their raiding forrays.  But that stone was still used by some people who could not acquire metal. When they could acquire metal, I have no doubt that they used the metal. Look at the Osage wagon seat springs that were used, because they didn't have access to, or couldn't afford the metal, and used something else that was effective, till they could get metal springs.  There never was or will be any intent to knock anyone on here irregardless of how much, or how little knowledge they have.  I just don't like the "Absolutes" that are too often used.  There will always be room for exceptions. ;)
     One good thing about this site, it do tend to elicit lively discussions, don't it?! ;D

                                                                                       Wayne

           As you say, “Archaeological "Facts" are constantly being rewritten,” I guess you feel qualified to re write them. You are not demonstrating qualifications by claims like “There were high quality stone knives, spear, and arrow heads found on the shores of North America, where there are Non Stoneage Viking settlements.” There is only one proven Viking settlement in North America. That is in Newfoundland and there were NO stone tools found on the site.
It is true that the “Iceman” “ had a metal (Copper) axe, but flint arrowheads”. Of course.  He dates from the transition of the Stone Age to the Bronze Age more than three thousand years ago. You ask “Explain the " Fact" that a Viking had a triangular Flint arrow head in his Head.” First you have to explain how you know that it was a Viking skull.

                                                                                       Erik