Author Topic: Differences in Bodkin points?  (Read 33097 times)

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Offline D. Tiller

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Differences in Bodkin points?
« on: May 06, 2007, 05:18:23 pm »
I was wondering why all the differences in Bodkin points. Can anyone enlighten me on this subject? Seems like early ones were very long then got shorter and tudars look like dart points and then there is one called a heavy war bodkin with a lozeng cross section. What gives?

David T
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Lloyd

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2007, 05:50:57 pm »
Sounds like someone has been looking at Hector Cole's site ;)
The longer more needle shaped points are better for maile. The shorter ones and the lozenge shaped ones are for plate.

For maile since all you are doing is spreading the links out the needle shaped point is more effective. Get the sharp point in the link and the shape of the bodkin will do the rest.
With plate you actually have to break through the armor so the shorter heavier points come into being. The lozenge shape is, I think, one of the later developments in this progression since it concentrates more weight at the very tip of the bodkin. The Tudor point I've never really understood myself. I suspect it's more of a galling point than an armor piercer but I'm not sure.
I always thought that the best maile piercers are the types 7 and 8b. The best for plate are probably the type 8,9 and 10 with the absolute best for plate being the type 9a. Types 10-12 I'm not sure about. I think, like the Tudor head, they are more harassing fire and not serious armor breakers. Maybe Jaro will weigh in since I think he knows this stuff better than I do.

The top point in the 1st pic is a 1/2" hand forged type 9a. The bottom 2 are commercial points that are kind of 9As and are available commercially in the States as crossbow quarrels.








Offline heavybow

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2007, 06:14:05 pm »
Lloyd nice arrows marlon

Offline Loki

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2007, 09:56:22 am »
Hey Lloyd is the 9a the one John forged for you?
The swallowtail's just nasty,poor nags!
Nice arra's mate,are you still using peackock for fletchings?
Durham,England

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2007, 12:56:11 pm »
Thanks Lloyd! That helps out a lot. I kind of like those Tudor points. Is anyone making those? If not how do you make them.  I think I saw something on Steve Stratton using those style of points to shoot through plate armor.

David T
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Offline outcaste

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2007, 03:03:31 pm »
Hi,

Have you seen Simon Stanley on the Discovery Channel? He seems to make a Tudor style bodkin by hammering it into a mould and grinds off the flash lines. I have a Hector Cole example but haven't tested it against a target (apart from grass!) They are very light though and I do have my doubts over the armour piercing qualities.

Cheers, Outcaste



Offline Yeomanbowman

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2007, 03:29:31 pm »
Hello All,
These stone representations are carved on Prince Arthur's Cantry Chapel in Worcester Cathedral.  They show livery arrows armed with Tudor bods and, as interestingly radiused fletches.  Head similar to these were recovered from the Towton battle field.  Prince Arthur was Henry VIII's older brother.  Here he is...
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/ArthurTudor1501.jpg
These are the carvings...
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/feathers.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/shafts.jpg
This is the reconstruction I got Hector Cole to make for me...
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/yeomanbowman/Dscn6987.jpg
Cheers,
Jeremy

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2007, 03:33:28 pm »
Yep! Saw that one.  It was interresting to see this type penitrate that plate. Maybe its the cross section of the point that allows it to push through? Looks like its stronger in the center and then flares into a cutting edge. Maybe its multipurpose type of point?
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Lloyd

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2007, 07:41:30 pm »
Yes, the hand forged bodkin in my pic is from John Marshall. I know that Hector Cole is selling the Tudor bodkin and so is Steve Stratton at http://www.diyarchery.co.uk/arrowheads.htm. The one's Steve is selling are made by Mark Stretton.
Yes, I'm still suing peacock for my war arrows and will probably continue till I run out.

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2007, 07:44:45 pm »
One of these days I have got to build me a forge and try and make these points. Wish there was someone arround who could teach us how to do it here in WA in the USA. I would definatly be pounding on there door.

David T
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Lloyd

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2007, 07:53:20 pm »
Check the English Warbow main site. There is a video from John Marshall on forging bodkins.

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2007, 07:54:40 pm »
I watched that one and learned a lot from it. But I think there must be more to the Tudor one.
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

Lloyd

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2007, 07:56:48 pm »
I watched that one and learned a lot from it. But I think there must be more to the Tudor one.

I think you are right because they are expensive little buggers! 15 pounds is $30.00 for a single point! + shipping from England!

Offline D. Tiller

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2007, 08:02:54 pm »
Yep!  ;D
“People are less likely to shoot at you if you smile at them” - Mad Jack Churchill

sagitarius boemoru

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Re: Differences in Bodkin points?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2007, 04:28:36 pm »
One of domestic production. Made after a prototype, made by me, made after one I saw on Mark´s arrow...oh huh head hurts....




I have couple of monster ones now, but they wait for being ground.

J.