Author Topic: Genghis Khan  (Read 4976 times)

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Offline ken75

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2011, 09:30:26 am »
dang i had to check the board ,make sure i was on " bow"

Offline Scott D

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2011, 09:34:02 am »
dang i had to check the board ,make sure i was on " bow"
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Offline Barrage

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2011, 10:05:36 am »
150 lbs for someone born on a horse, probably not that impressive back then?

Worth remembering that if it wasn't for the death of Ogedai, there probably wouldn't be an English warbow, at least as we know it.
Travis

Offline jwillis

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2011, 11:56:47 am »
I saw that show, too. It was very interesting and entertaining. I was just glad to see my favorite channel discussing archery as it related to history. Jim

Offline JBL

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2011, 06:27:17 pm »
The "Mongol" bow that many of us see today is NOT the true Mongol bow used by Genghis Khan and his lads.  The bow that we call a Mongol today is actually a Manchu bow.  The Mongol bow of antiquity was very similar to a "Magyar" or Crimean Tatar bow.  They were made with bamboo, sinew, horn and backed (protected)  by birch or leather.  If you go to Lukas's site and look at the Yuan Dynasty bow he has on his site it is almost identical to a bow that Kublai Khan (grandson Of Ghenghis)is depicted shooting.  Grant it pictures are just artist representations but there are sevearl graves that have parts of these bows in them.

As far as the Crusaders armor not being penetrated by the Saracen bows this maybe true but also maybe an imaginative piece of propaganda.  After all as a Westerner you would not want to have new "recruits" being told that the Arab weapons were more advanced than your own.  One misconception about Eastern bows in general is that they are "only" efficient when shooting a light arrow.  This is based on the Turkish Flight Bows of the last couple of centuries.  Keep in mind that even during the height of the Ottoman Empire the war bows were larger and had bigger siyahs.

There is also much debate about the draw weight of the Mongol bows.  Some believe that they shot bows of over 100# while others say about 75#.  I believe there were two draw weights one for infantry or ground work while the other was used on horseback.  It is said in "The Secret History of the Mongols" that each warrior went on campaign with two bows.  They also had several thumb rings of different sizes to account for the thumb swelling and shrinking because of weather.

Offline jbnizzle

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2011, 04:13:23 am »
Adam K. has a persian horse bow in his book that is a double bow and is quoted as saying it possibly draws 300 lbs. As for the Mary Rose I've seen the quotes of 80 to125 lb. pull averagebut not 180 to 200 lb. Also the horn bows pull with little stack compared to a long bow. King Henry is said to of taken his War bow with him to France. It's weighted pull was aprox. 150 and he was a big fella.
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Offline Lukasz Nawalny

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2011, 04:39:29 am »
Hello.I have 2 orginal Mongol bows , made in Mongolia. I must say - very slow bows.One short horsebow and one 160 cm. By draw weight 70 - 80 lb - 120 - 130 fps 9 gpp .Very hevy sijah and high mass of limbs - disaster


Offline El Guapo

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2011, 10:47:14 am »

I'd be very interested to see an "original" mongol bow. I really do not believe there are any in existance? By original I mean surviving examples from the period.

With regards time to train to use a bow, I feel this arguement holds little water. Admittedly there may not be so many people with either the strength, skill or training to do this but there are absolutely some who could; if it was possible?

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2011, 11:14:44 am »
The testing that Adam Karpowicz did with his horn war bows, he mentions Crim-Tatar, seems to show speeds of about 185 fps with 10 GPP arrows.  Adam is well known for his horn bows
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Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2011, 09:35:07 pm »
Hello.I have 2 orginal Mongol bows , made in Mongolia. I must say - very slow bows.One short horsebow and one 160 cm. By draw weight 70 - 80 lb - 120 - 130 fps 9 gpp .Very hevy sijah and high mass of limbs - disaster

Were these bows made recently, Lukasz?  Archery seems to be making a huge return in Mongol culture, maybe the builder was fairly new to the craft?

I'd love to see you post some of your work, by the way, Lukasz!  I've heard some very nice things.
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Offline aero86

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2011, 11:23:06 pm »
my mongol bow had a really high brace height, does that one have a higher brace height?  i mean higher than 8 inches..  i used the same string it came with.. i never tried to make another string for it.  it was kinda slow, but it had decent cast
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Offline Lukasz Nawalny

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2011, 11:59:22 am »
For sure in old times was better Bowyers in Mongolia , I think this is some kind of product for tourist ? Bows looks realy great , very precise work but shoot bad.

Offline jackcrafty

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2011, 02:53:14 pm »
Interesting topic!

I've read many accounts on the Mongols and they are all consistent in maintaining that the bows were powerful.  At the time of Genghis Khan, the tradition of shooting composite bows had existed for hundreds of years.  This leads me to believe that the quality of the average Mongol bow was very high, and that the test results are not surprising.

If the same arrow was shot out of both bows, then the speed of the arrow was greater when shot out of the Mongol bow. It's that simple.  If the arrows were different, then there is no telling what the cause was for the greater penetration... and the test is meaningless without complete data on both the bows and the arrows.

As far as Comanches vs Mongols, the side with the greatest levels of morale, technology, and training would win.  In this case, the Mongols would have the upper hand.  JMHO
« Last Edit: February 07, 2011, 03:07:18 pm by jackcrafty »
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Offline mullet

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2011, 04:49:13 pm »
Lukasz;
 It surprised me when you said it was slow. The horn bow I just got is screaming a 10gpp arrow. I can tell by just looking it is in the 180 fps zone or better. Being a tourist bow makes sense.
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Offline denny

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Re: Genghis Khan
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2011, 05:54:15 pm »
I know one thingl, that is a fact ! I sure wouldn't want to be on the recieving end on a volley of either bow, In a battle!! I often wondered what those poor infantry soldiers felt , when 1,000 arrows are coming down on them. Might as well hang your head and kiss you butt good bye.lol  BY the way no emergency rooms back then. Den