Author Topic: WANDER WHY  (Read 4620 times)

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Offline sailordad

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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2011, 08:16:23 pm »
i wasnt gonna put my two cents in on this as its all speculation and opinions
but i i have seen beautiful ISHI points,and also some that he made that were purley for utlitarion purposes
they look alot like most of mine,usefull but not real pretty
all of his that i have seen were made from the same material
black obsidion
so i think it comes down to what the intended purpose of the item being made
determined its look

the wintu style point that ISHI is known for(to my understanding)he made this type as gifts for friends
his hunting points were just basic side/corner or basel notch points

well there it is, my two cents worth
i always wanted a harley,untill it became the "thing to ride"
i ride because i love to,not to be part of the crowd

Offline Bill Skinner

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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2011, 11:58:28 pm »
I don't think it was the quality of the stone that determined how pretty the point would be.  About 80% of the points I find are Tallahatta quartzite.  As a lot of you guys know, Tallahatta can be a bear to work.  The points they made range from real pretty to plug ugly.  And some are the same type of point, so I think there are several factors that determined how pretty the point came out.  One that nobody has mentioned is their tool kit, in the summer, it would be pretty difficult to replace that worn out antler bopper or pressure flaker.  Bill

Offline Tower

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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2011, 12:35:11 am »
Ok everything else aside I think they were more than capable of manufacturing points that have been surpassed by only a rare few. all have excellent points to bring to the table.
He who sacrifices freedom for a security deserves neither one.  Benjamin Franklin!

Offline mullet

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« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2011, 12:55:10 am »
I make hunting points. That is really the reason I started knapping. When I make a point that looks like a historic point it is a fluke. My points do not look like Jesse's or Shannon's. ;D
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline xin

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« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2011, 04:21:23 am »
One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that some of the points were obviously made by children just learning to knap and others were made by older men whose eyesight had long since lost its acuity.  I don't think their local medicine men were up to date on the latest Lasik surgery or the cataract lens replacement surgery.  Just a wild guess.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 04:27:29 am by xin »

Offline iowabow

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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2011, 11:50:48 am »
I think you have to make a whole lot of crappy points before you start making good ones. Children would act like adults and make points to be sure, so it stands to reason that there would be more beginners than pros. If you look at all the people that paint pictures many are good enough but few are truly great. I have made many bad points and many more I tossed across the yard in frustration. I only have a couple that are nice. So teaching the skill to a large group of people would most likely equal a lot of junk. A poorly made fence still works however maybe not as well. I just think the learning curve would produce a vary large number of poorly made points. I think not all knapper would develop skill.
(:::.) The ABO path is a new frontier to the past!

Offline Lobo69ss

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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2011, 08:51:06 pm »
I was sitting in a camp (rendezvous) one time, working on a few points for my trade blanket. I was getting frustrated with myself because I`d broken more than I actually managed to finish into pretty, symetrical, thin "money points".   I kept chasing that little bugger in the middle that messed with my defination of "done"... you know, that little hinge, those annoying hangnails, that little stack 1/2 way up the point...
   A good friend sat there watching me getting more p/o`d with the results of my work.  After a while he scooted a little closer to where I was sitting & asked if he could look at the ancient authentic points & blades  that I had to show the flatlanders.
  I told him that he was more than welcome to see anything I had.   He asked me to show him the best of what I had in old stone... I pulled out a small unifacial ovoid knife/ scraper blade, & a couple other small points.  He said to really look at the things I had in my hands... then look at the rest. His point was that there were more points & blades that had hinges, stacks, & other things that looked "wrong" to them.  "Wrong" to us is a modern idea that wasn`t in their mindsets way back then.  He told me that if I was making a point for a necklace or other finery, ya gotta make `em purty, cause purty sells...   The most important thing back then came down to 3 major "gotta`s".  Gotta have a decent point (to iniciate the cutting action), gotta have a sharp egde to continue the cutting, & still be thin enough at the basal end to be hafted in/onto whatever was to carry the point/blade in use wether it was an arrow shaft, atlatl foreshaft, or knife handle.  Other than that, anything else was an option that didn`t affect the use of the tool. Hinges or stacks,  away from the edge sucked, but didn`t affect  the functionality. Overshot  flakes that took out part of the other side of the just meant that he had to do a few pressure flakes to restore the sharpness lost (if even that).
   As long as the point would put meat over the fire or an enemy to the "happy hunting grounds" it was a good point. 
  Sorry toi ramble on, but that`s just my $0.02 woth...
The man who sees the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.

Offline jamie

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« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2011, 09:31:43 am »
one more thing to add to lobos excellent discription. go for a walk find something that will make a point. make a point out of it right there on the spot with whatever tools are on the ground. see what you get.  ;D
"Man is a tool-using animal. Without tools he is nothing, with tools he is all."

waterbury, ct

Offline crooketarrow

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« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2011, 01:03:07 pm »
  All of these are good points put you still have that BIG S  (STILL).  And like I said I've been to and dug a couple work sites here there was chert out crops. I'd like to have 100 pounds of. And time wasn't a problem here and I sure the knappers of the village went here. So I'm sorry I just saying there heads should be a LOT better than the ones you find.