Author Topic: MR sidenocks  (Read 62494 times)

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Offline alanesq

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2008, 03:35:27 pm »
I have tried making a better copy of the Mary Rose nock and finally got the hang of my new camera ;-)
so here are some good pictures of it

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alan.blackham/warbow/nock/demo/

BTW - I now have some of these nocks fitted to my 140lb bow
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 05:48:49 pm by alanesq »

Offline bow-toxo

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2008, 02:10:59 am »

Here's the original, and incredibly a replicated nock that they fitted to an original bow.
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 The lower nock is not a replica. It is not even a sidenock. Sidenocks were selfnocks on early longbows as well as the horn nocks on later ones. As someone suggested, they were used because the long early bowtips wouild have been dangerously weakened by an additional nock in the oyher side. It was thought that the thinned down [whipped] ends would give a better cast to the bow. Horn nocks were later used not to prevent the string cutting through the wood [impossible] but so as not to weaken the tips by cutting even a single nock into the wood. You can see that the MR bows are thinned in the last foot or so of the bowtip. I use a string loop with my side nocks but it has to be a very close fit to hold and the nock has to be very carefully cut.

Offline alanesq

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2008, 05:03:59 pm »
The lower nock is not a replica. It is not even a sidenock. Sidenocks were selfnocks on early longbows as well as the horn nocks on later ones. As someone suggested, they were used because the long early bowtips wouild have been dangerously weakened by an additional nock in the oyher side. It was thought that the thinned down [whipped] ends would give a better cast to the bow. Horn nocks were later used not to prevent the string cutting through the wood [impossible] but so as not to weaken the tips by cutting even a single nock into the wood. You can see that the MR bows are thinned in the last foot or so of the bowtip. I use a string loop with my side nocks but it has to be a very close fit to hold and the nock has to be very carefully cut.

Good to hear from someone else using sidenocks :-)

Do you have any pictures of your nocks you could post here?
how long have you been using them?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2008, 05:16:34 pm by alanesq »

Offline bow-toxo

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2008, 10:44:17 pm »
Alanesq: I just had pictures of my horn sidenocks taken taken and will send them when I get my scanner operational. I have been using sidenocks for over thirty years.

Offline alanesq

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2008, 01:42:50 am »

That makes 3 of us now then ;-)

I dont know why, but there seems to be a great reluctance for people to use them ?
especially if making a Mary Rose type bow it seems to me the only way to go

how do you attach the bow strings ?
I have been using a bowyers knot both ends which works ok but I am now converting to a small loop forming a noose on the top nock (as the others here have been using)

what type of string do you use?


Offline bow-toxo

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2008, 01:59:22 pm »
I used single loop strings of the Irish linen thread from Belfast. I always made my own strings.My Mary rose replica broke several of my strings before I got it right. Now I am making silk strings. With sidenocks you need a really close fitting loop. With a silk string you have to start off with a loop about the size to fit a pencil because silk will stretch a lot in the beginning. Sidenocks were used because the thin whip ends of mediaeval bows would have been almost cut through by a double nock.

Offline alanesq

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2008, 02:14:01 pm »

I have recently had a first try at making a linen string but didnt get on very well
I think the linen I have is no good
it has a breaking strength of around 2kg a strand but when I try and add strands together it seems to get weaker ? ? ?

do you know a good place I could buy some ?

Offline bow-toxo

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2008, 06:16:38 pm »

I have recently had a first try at making a linen string but didnt get on very well
I think the linen I have is no good
it has a breaking strength of around 2kg a strand but when I try and add strands together it seems to get weaker ? ? ?

do you know a good place I could buy some ?

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The good Irish linen thread is difficult to find these days. Maybe you don't have equal tension on all the strands. I don't know how you are making the string. Is it three strand single loop ? That is what I know as Flemish but nowadays the term is used for other kinds. I have a picture of my nock but I can't figure out how to post it here. If I get your email I could do it that way.

Offline alanesq

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2008, 02:20:31 am »
I didnt get as far as making a full string, I was just experimenting with measuring  breaking strength to work out how many strands i would need but I found that with 10 strands for example I was only  getting half the strength I  expected?  so I didnt  get any further than this

below is the picture of your sidenock


[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline YewArcher

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2008, 10:11:46 pm »
I am going to start using them on my 90#er. I do not care for horn nocks all that much so will just use self side nocks in the yew. I just have a feeling that its a gonna be hard stringing the bow with side nocks and timber hitches. anyone have any sugestions?

SJM

Offline alanesq

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2008, 03:09:22 am »
I am going to start using them on my 90#er. I do not care for horn nocks all that much so will just use self side nocks in the yew. I just have a feeling that its a gonna be hard stringing the bow with side nocks and timber hitches. anyone have any sugestions?

another convert :-)

sidenocks are a bit more fiddly but nothing too bad
if you make a very small loop in the string then thread the string through this forming a noose this works well and is easier to string/destring
you can then put some silicone on the string which helps destringing if you are using modern string material

btw - I have a 100lb ash bow which is just tapered bow tips with no nocks at all (i.e. no horn or slot cut for the string) which I use timber hitches on and this works surprisingly well
I did this just as an experiment to see if this could explain the Otzi bow but it works so well I kept the bow like this
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 03:17:06 am by alanesq »

Offline YewArcher

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2008, 11:56:10 am »
Yes, a convert in the process. I will pot some pics up later today of the area. i am making up a new linen string right now.

SJM

Offline YewArcher

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2008, 05:56:32 pm »
Here they are,

One of my horn nocks broke a few months back and I am fresh out of horn and do not want to make more. I have always liked the idea of the self side nock. I have a few 60 + # yew bows that have self nocks that show no real wear from the string. It seems like the string will compress the yew to a certain point and then leave a nice little groove. We will see now well these hold up but I have faith in them from what I see. I hade to twist up a new linen string to acomodate. I will do lots of shooting tomorrow and see how they do. Its raining here now! >:(

It is suprisingly easy to sting and unstring with the 2 timber hitches. Bow is around 85# or so @32". I still have to rub a finish on this bow. Still getting to it.











SJM

Offline alanesq

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2008, 07:04:38 pm »
Looks great :-)

I really like the look of a bow with a timber hitch at both ends but I have found a noose on the top nock makes life much easier as its easier to string and there is no problem with the knot slipping and this moving your nocking point etc.
I have no idea if its likely that Medieval archers would have used a noose though?

Sometimes after you have shot the bow it can be a bit more difficult to destring but I suspect linen will be no problem
I am using D75 which is too stiff and can be very difficult some times (you cant get fastflight anymore though)

yes, I found on my "Otzi test bow" that the string made a indent in the wood which the string now sits in nicely
I must try and find out if there is anything like this shows on the Otzi bow tips ?

Offline YewArcher

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2008, 07:24:25 pm »
Thanks!

Cant wait to do some shooting now. But since its raining might as well goin the shop and rough out another mary rose bow!

SJM