Author Topic: MR sidenocks  (Read 62837 times)

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Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2008, 10:36:23 pm »
I wouldn't use a timber hitch on unprotected Yew.  I've had a timber hitch cut through Elm and seriously mark the back other hardwoods
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

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Offline adb

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2008, 11:45:37 am »
I wouldn't either. Seems like you're asking for trouble.

Offline bow-toxo

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2008, 03:16:27 am »
I wouldn't use a timber hitch on unprotected Yew.  I've had a timber hitch cut through Elm and seriously mark the back other hardwoods

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 Maybe there is a draw weight cutoff. I've used single loop strings with a timber hitch in the lower self nock of several yew bows for years without any more damage than a slight indent. They were at only 60 pounds draw weight. I was patterning the bows after early mediaeval yew longbows bows that don't seem to have had a problem with unprotected nocks.


stevesjem

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2008, 07:30:15 am »
I wouldn't use a timber hitch on unprotected Yew.  I've had a timber hitch cut through Elm and seriously mark the back other hardwoods

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Maybe there is a draw weight cutoff. I've used single loop strings with a timber hitch in the lower self nock of several yew bows for years without any more damage than a slight indent. They were at only 60 pounds draw weight. I was patterning the bows after early mediaeval yew longbows bows that don't seem to have had a problem with unprotected nocks.


Which early medieval yew longbows were these ones then?

Offline YewArcher

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2008, 12:00:25 pm »
I went back to horn.....bow looked to naked without horn nocks.

SJM

Bueskytter

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2008, 07:59:38 am »
Which early medieval yew longbows were these ones then?

http://www.vikingsna.org/translations/hedeby%20bows/

Norse longbows were most often self-nocked, and were mainly made of yew.

Offline bow-toxo

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2008, 12:47:17 am »
I am going to start using them on my 90#er. I do not care for horn nocks all that much so will just use self side nocks in the yew. I just have a feeling that its a gonna be hard stringing the bow with side nocks and timber hitches. anyone have any sugestions?

SJM
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  I use the self side nocks on my Nydam and Viking pattern bows.I have had no poblem with a single loop string tied with a timberhitch at the lower nock. The string loop must fit pretty close however. Sidenocked horn tips are more tricky and have to be very well fitted.

Gaius1311

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2009, 02:54:00 am »
Hello,

My name is Mark Headlee and I am new to this forum as a member, though I have been reading the posts for some time. I hope I learn and share some of my experiences with longbow - warbow archery.

First, I am in the process of researching and possibly having an accurate reproduction MR warbow built. It has been quite a chore, but research is 99% of the total project, the finished bow is just part.

I would like to ask if there is anyone who sells or is willing to make for me the sidenocks based on the MR artifacts. I ask since there are members how have researched them in person and I do not want to make a "ok" copy based on what I can deduct from internet pictures. I'm striving for accuracy, not acceptability.

If there is anyone please contact me via PM or at my below email address. I would be very interested in speaking with you.

Thanks,

Mark

mheadlee(at)bresnan(dot)net

Offline Davepim

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #53 on: October 20, 2009, 04:42:38 am »
Hi Mark,
     There is only the one horn sidenock from the Mary Rose; you should find photos in this thread. If you buy horn sidenocks ready-made from someone else, you'll have a lot of trouble making the tips of your bow fit exactly, which they must do, without any voids between wood and horn. Some bowyers taper the tips of their bows with, essentially, a large pencil-sharpener, so that the cone has straight sides and then they can drill out the horn with a triangular bit. This is inaccurate; the original MR bows have gently tapering tips, and you need to make a drill bit that follows this idea. See the photo here:

http://s289.photobucket.com/albums/ll219/Davepim/Davepim%20%204/

Don't forget that the diameter of the bow tip where it enters the horn nock is about 12-14mm and the depth inside the horn should be about 45mm. I am not an expert on sidenocks, but I find that when the nock is finished (bar the cutting of the groove) it can be glued on and then the string groove cut with a fine rat-tailed file or tile saw, all the way through to the wood beneath, as was done with the originals.

Cheers, Dave
« Last Edit: October 20, 2009, 10:04:53 am by Davepim »

Offline alanesq

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #54 on: October 20, 2009, 08:59:18 am »

I have put all the info I have managed to find on sidenocks here:
http://alanesq.com/sidenock.htm

if you look at this pic
http://www.alanesq.com/longbow/sidenock/diagram.jpg
this is an archaeological diagram I received from the Mary Rose Trust which is about the best source I know of for dimensions etc.


Offline Swamp Bow

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #55 on: October 20, 2009, 11:22:02 am »
Hi Mark,
     There is only the one horn sidenock from the Mary Rose; you should find photos in this thread. If you buy horn sidenocks ready-made from someone else, you'll have a lot of trouble making the tips of your bow fit exactly, which they must do, without any voids between wood and horn. Some bowyers taper the tips of their bows with, essentially, a large pencil-sharpener, so that the cone has straight sides and then they can drill out the horn with a triangular bit. This is inaccurate; the original MR bows have gently tapering tips, and you need to make a drill bit that follows this idea. See the photo here:

<snip>

Dave,
  I'm guessing that you mean the tips need to be tapered for historical accuracy not necessarily for functionality?  Pretty sure that's what you mean, just double checking. :)  Thanks

Swamp
From the middle of a swamp in SW Florida.

Offline Davepim

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #56 on: October 20, 2009, 12:38:42 pm »
Quite right Swamp! They work just as well done with a straight taper and no offense intended to those of you who use that method, it's just that, if you're going to use sidenocks, you might as well get the rest right as well. Just my personal opinion however ;D

Dave

Offline adb

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #57 on: October 20, 2009, 03:18:47 pm »
Question about side nocks... on which side of the nock are they cut? or does it matter? and are they cut on the same side top & bottom, or do they alternate?

Offline alanesq

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #58 on: October 20, 2009, 06:50:32 pm »
Question about side nocks... on which side of the nock are they cut? or does it matter? and are they cut on the same side top & bottom, or do they alternate?

The slots are cut so that both nocks are identical - so when fitted on the bow the slots are on opposite sides of the bow

so if you just copy this pic then they will work out right

Offline Swamp Bow

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Re: MR sidenocks
« Reply #59 on: October 21, 2009, 12:12:35 am »
Thanks Dave.

It makes me wonder why though.  After all it is easier (for me) to make a straight end instead of convex/concave taper.  Tradition?  I would think that it is easier to match the stave to the nock, than to try and adjust the nock.  Given that, it stands to reason that the tool that makes the hole in the horn is the deciding element controlling shape.  It's been a while since I have looked at medieval woodworking tools, but I seem to remember that spoon bits where the order of the day.  It would be pretty easy to tweak one to make a taper like that, maybe all bits were shaped like that to start with.  It really has been a while since I looked at that style of tool.  Still, I just think it would be easier to do a straight taper even if you have to modify a spoon bit.  But I'm looking at this from a very modern point of view, maybe it isn't easier.  Bearing that in mind, does anyone know how it was actually done in period?  Could they have ground the joint?  As in did they rough out the hole and then use an abrasive slury (water/oil grit) to grind the pieces together until the fit was perfect?  I would think that technique would leave obvious marks on the staves though and I've never heard anyone mention that.  I'm just thinking out loud here.  Anyone else have any ideas or even better, period documentation?

Swamp
From the middle of a swamp in SW Florida.