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Author Topic: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)  (Read 4547 times)

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Offline Lee Slikkers

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Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« on: May 19, 2011, 05:29:46 pm »
Well, a bit disappointed as I thought this one was really coming along nicely.  It was a Hickory backed Osage, 58" ntn.  Had it on the tiller tree and it was bending fairly nice with a low brace 35# @ 15" and then I heard the tell tale (now normal for me) "snap, crackle off the wall ricochete  :o

Anyway, here is the ugly...





[imghttps://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_neJ--vb8EaA/TdVjubTCh3I/AAAAAAAABes/mfV5JYvrzKU/s800/CIMG0782.JPG]http://[/img]



Here are a couple shots of the other tip/side so you can see the profile of what it looked like before it's (my) failure...









Couple thoughts run through my head as to a possible cause:

1) Hickory backing was too thick and overpowered the Osage
2) I cut this Osage lam out of split I felled in Feb, maybe the grain ran out or possibly it wasn't dry enough
3) The belly is faceted and flat but about 1/2 way to the tips as I thinned the Osage down I also changed the taper to more of a pyramid as you can see in the above pics.

So far that pretty much 0 for 3 since my other kid's bow belly has more frets than a Gibson  ::)

Thanks~
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~ Lee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Offline k-hat

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2011, 06:28:18 pm »
Lee, I'm a novice at this, and haven't done any wood-backed bows, but it looks to me like the Osage overpowered the hick?  Definitely a tension (hickory) failure as the osage is still somewhat in tact.  Looks like the break started from the hickory.  Somebody may prove me wrong, but i'm not sure backing osage with anything other than boo is gonna work out so well.

That being said, pick yourself up and get after another!  I did a couple of experiments that went wrong :'(, then scaled back to something a little more proven.  Experimenting and pushing limits is fun, but can get a guy feeling down on himself!  I actually went back to "the perfect bow" designs given in TBB1 to hone my skills a little further and get some more success under my belt.  Hopefully i can post some soon!

Learn what you can and move on bro! 
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Offline 0209

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2011, 06:43:36 pm »
It looks as though your hickory was way to thick as a backing.  What were the dimensions on the back and belly pieces?
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HatchA

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2011, 06:50:55 pm »
Hickory does look very thick to me.  Also - your edges seem a little "sharp" too?  As you mentioned above - not sure how the facet/pyramid thing might affect things but it could throw the compression to one side or the other, depending on lots of things??  Grain run off, centre of apex, knot on one side etc?

I'm just guessing with all these but it's just what "stands out" in my mind.


Sorry for your loss :(
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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2011, 07:05:43 pm »
I concur. That backing could be 1/16 thick with osage and still work fine, IMO. If you leave the belly flat it will taek alot more compression, hickory loves dishing compression out for dinner! Try another with a thin backer and a flat belly and I bet you get a winner Lee.
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Offline bubby

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2011, 07:38:48 pm »
it almost look's like you're hickory is thicker than the osage, get you're backingabout 3/16" thick, that gives ya some room to sand, now give it anouther go, everybody breaks you'll get it,here's one I been workin on, 50" ntn inch and a quarter at widest pyramid taper, pulled here to 19" i think only about 3/8" thick kids bows are harder than a full size bow to me, you will get it soon enough, Bub
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Offline bubby

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2011, 08:54:43 pm »
Lee try a pyramid board bow, on oak go 58", inch and 3/4" at the fades half inch tips, four inch handle, i 1/2 fades set the fence on the tablesaw for the belly cut at 7/16" and cut to start of fades then finish off with a bandsaw, on hickory that should leave enough wood for a 40# bow easy, try it if ya like, I know it's not hatchet and drawknife but it work's till ya get you're tillering down, good luck however ya decide to go, Bub
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Offline ken75

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2011, 08:56:10 pm »
it was a tension failure , but i think it was the wood . if ya look at the inside of the hickory it doesnt look right i think you have some probs with decay. hickory should not show the little pockets that yours is showing on the inside. the only time ive seen this is some i got from a friend that was air dried in the open . where you getting your hickory from ?
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Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2011, 10:37:41 pm »
Quote from: stixman on May 19, 2011, 06:28:18 pm
Lee, I'm a novice at this, and haven't done any wood-backed bows, but it looks to me like the Osage overpowered the hick?  Definitely a tension (hickory) failure as the osage is still somewhat in tact.  Looks like the break started from the hickory.  Somebody may prove me wrong, but i'm not sure backing osage with anything other than boo is gonna work out so well.

That being said, pick yourself up and get after another!  I did a couple of experiments that went wrong :'(, then scaled back to something a little more proven.  Experimenting and pushing limits is fun, but can get a guy feeling down on himself!  I actually went back to "the perfect bow" designs given in TBB1 to hone my skills a little further and get some more success under my belt.  Hopefully i can post some soon!

Learn what you can and move on bro! 


Thanks, I'm ALL novice Stixman but rereading TBB1 again sounds like a dang good idea at this point.
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~ Lee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2011, 10:39:12 pm »
Quote from: 0209 on May 19, 2011, 06:43:36 pm
It looks as though your hickory was way to thick as a backing.  What were the dimensions on the back and belly pieces?

I think you are correct on the backing being to heavy.  It was almost a 1/4" and the Osage was 1/2" at the thickest spot.
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~ Lee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2011, 10:47:49 pm »
Thanks for all the help and input guys, I appreciate it.  The Hickory was bought at our local Lowes store...seemed sound when I ripped it and planed it down but I guess it could have been decay.  My bet is more along the lines of my fault with the Hickory just being too thick.  Seems overkill the more I look at it.

Bubby, I may end up on a board bow yet but I have a couple more builds already laminated up so I might as well see if I can modify a few of those backing thickness' and find out if I can do a better job with them.
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~ Lee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Offline Pappy

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2011, 08:55:56 am »
I'm not much on backed bow,nothing wrong with them I just don't do many,but I would say the
backing does look pretty thick, I am with Ken on thinking it was the wood,I have worked a lot of Hickory and I always do a check before I work with any that I didn't handle myself by making a small bow from a piece of it and do a bend test,Sometimes it looks good but has dry rotted and will break every time when bent much. With the back that thick I wouldn't have been surprised at the belly fretting but surprised it broke like that at that short of a pull. :) Better luck on the next one. :) :)   
   Pappy
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Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2011, 10:55:24 am »
Thanks Pappy...seems I'm a streak of the wrong kind at the moment but I'm learning so that's a plus~
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~ Lee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
— Aldo Leopold
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Offline Pappy

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2011, 01:09:41 pm »
It happens,been there done that,I once blew 4 in a row,man that was one bad DAY. :) :) yes in one day. :o >:( :)
   Pappy
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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: Kid's Bow #2 - BLEW (or Autopsy if you please...)
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2011, 01:44:53 pm »
Pappy! 4 in one day? I havent even blew that many total...............you must be new to this stuff or something?
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Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.
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