Author Topic: another winged atlatl ver 2.0  (Read 7658 times)

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Offline swamp monkey

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another winged atlatl ver 2.0
« on: December 21, 2011, 06:42:58 pm »
This one I made from Osage orange but the shaft is shorter.  I intend to do some experiments on what works better a long or short shaft.  I will also monitor ease of use and may employ some other atlatlists.  This one I name the "Elk Annihilator"  The first one I made (other thread) was "Bison Stalker". 

Here are the specs for comparison. 

Bison Stalker
TL = 22 1/2"
handle 5"
spur 5 1/4"
shaft 12 1/4" section showing, TL =15 1/2", dia. =1/2"
bannerstone =3 1/2" x 5 1/2"

Elk Annihilator
TL = 16"
handle 5"
spur 4 1/8"
shaft 7 1/4" section showing, TL =10", dia. =1/2"
bannerstone =3 3/4" x 5"
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 07:43:54 pm by swamp monkey »

Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: another winged atlatl ver 2.0
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2011, 09:30:49 pm »
I REALLY like these Atl's a lot!!!  I have jumped in with both feet on the bow building, arrow making, flint knapping and such but I really need to give making these a real try.  So what did you use (rock wise) for the banner stones?  Slate?

Real sexy work as always Swampy!
~ Lee

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"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
Aldo Leopold
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Offline swamp monkey

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Re: another winged atlatl ver 2.0
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2011, 10:21:45 pm »
I cannot take credit for the replica bannerstones.  They were a gift from my wife.  E-bay is the likely source.  I do however, know some of the rock types used historically.  Banded slate, quartz, pudding stone, and many types of igneous rock.  If you want to research them further I recommend the books Atlatls and Bannerstones: Excavations at Indian Knoll by William S. Webb. and Bannerstones of the North American Indian by Byron Knoblock.  Both are published by Gustavs Library.  He has a website to that effect.   The first book has a great section on atlatl hooks, handles and bannerstones.  This is the definitive work to explain placement of bannerstones in context.  The other book shows every conceivable bannerstone in North America. You may be surprised by the craftsmanship the early natives possessed.  I was amazed.  To my knowledge bannerstones are only found in North America and winged bannerstones are only found in the eastern US. 

Another good source is the website     http://www.primitive.org/atlweights.htm
They have an article on there for bannerstone classification and function.  Fascinating stuff. Everything above is sufficient detail for replica projects. 

Some of the winged bannerstones were crafted with pecking and sanding.  Hard rocks were used to peck away a bit at a time.  Then some sanding with sand stone and a leather/grit slurry that polished things up good.  The holes were made with cane shafts and flint dust as an abrasive.  I have heard of estimates of 200+ hours to craft one of these bad boys using traditional methods. 

Another book that has a short section on bannerstone construction (a darned good reference for other native American Prehistoric skills too) is Sun Circles and Human Hands: The Southeastern Indians - Art and Industry by Emma Lila Fundaburk and Mary Douglass Foreman.  This is an old book printed in 1957 but I have seen some recent paperback reprints in select gift shops.  I betcha a flint arrowhead Amazon.com or B&N has it online.

Sorry to be so windy.  I just love sharing this stuff. Enjoy the references and if you end up making your own bannerstone please post so we can brag on ya. 

Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: another winged atlatl ver 2.0
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2011, 02:09:24 am »
Just got back to reread your reply...LOTS of good info, I really appreciate your efforts there...I'll have to work on getting my hands on those titles as this aspect of the Abo World is really starting to intrigue me more and more.
~ Lee

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"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
Aldo Leopold
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Offline swamp monkey

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Re: another winged atlatl ver 2.0
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2012, 07:23:12 pm »
I threw darts this weekend and have this to report on the two atlatls.  First I noticed that an un-winged atlatl otherwise made with similar parts make an audible swish noise.  The winged atlatls do NOT make a loud swish at all.  All you rally hear is the movement of the fabric you wear!

Second, and unscientific; the longer atlatl feels like I am trying to toss a bowling ball with a broom handle.  The shorter one does not feel nearly so stressful.  Dart distance was not much different.  I plan to do some more standardized testing with several people and see what I get.  Anyone have any ideas on how to judge swing speed for someone's arm?

Third, I plan to test the question is the swish silencing due to reduced speed or due to increased weight?  In other words do the wings cause the air to move differently so it doesn't make a noise, OR is it the weight resists acceleration so you cannot swing it fast enough to get a swish?  My plan is to use a similar weighted atlatl with no wings and then craft an atlatl that has a winged bannerstone made out of some lightweight wood.  I may not get right on this but it is definitely in the works.   :D

Offline swamp monkey

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Re: another winged atlatl ver 2.0
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2012, 10:24:30 pm »
some more thoughts on the function of bannerstones from a flint knapper who has made one with historic methods.  Interesting stuff.  http://flintknapper.com/Larry%27s%20SEAC%20paper.htm

Offline Blood Trail

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Re: another winged atlatl ver 2.0
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2012, 12:20:31 am »
Those things look awesome, but I have no ideal on what they do. Could someone post a link to a vid? I'm a noob to this site! ::)

Offline swamp monkey

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Re: another winged atlatl ver 2.0
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 04:21:04 pm »
I am not much on videos but these are spear throwers.  They fling darts.  I will post some pix of this soon.  The stones themselves are a matter of debate. I think that is fun to discuss and think about.

Offline Will H

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Re: another winged atlatl ver 2.0
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2012, 12:35:18 pm »
Those look AMAZING! Well done!  :) :) :)
Proud Member of Twin Oaks Bowhunters
           Clarksville, Tennessee

   "Middle Tennessee is the place to be"

Offline Lee Slikkers

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Re: another winged atlatl ver 2.0
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2012, 03:12:13 pm »
Look forward to the Vid's...I just purchased a thrower and darts (probably could have made my own but wanted something I knew worked so I could build on it from an experience stand point and know my own are functioning correctly.  They are SUPER fun by my accuracy and consistency kinda suck right now.

Thanks!

~ Lee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: 'What good is it?"
Aldo Leopold
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~