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Author Topic: Texture of Knappable stone  (Read 6424 times)

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Offline JoJoDapyro

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Texture of Knappable stone
« on: September 21, 2014, 06:36:25 pm »
SO after spending a few hours today looking for some knappable stone we (Tyke and I) found a few rocks that look right, and fracture somewhat right. Will Heat treating stone make it fracture more consistently, or are we wasting time hoping that a material that doesn't have a good smooth texture ever be right? Here is a photo of one of the stones we found. Keep in mind this is wet as it was raining on us all morning. Very hit or miss, and unfortunately none of these appear to be native stones to the area we collected them. This one seems to break wrong, but the feel and look of the red band look right. Also, Should stone be spalled before you heat treat them under a fire? Thanks.

Joe
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Offline mullet

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2014, 06:40:50 pm »
Try heating it. You will never know till you do. Coral is some pretty nasty stuff till you cook it.
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Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2014, 07:38:28 pm »
Also, I forgot to mention that it does throw sparks, and it does ring, not as well as Obsidian, but ring non the less.

While heating under a fire how would I proceed? I have sandy soil where I live (The town is called Sandy) So do I dig a hole a cover it with about 6 inches?
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If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
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Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2014, 09:00:11 pm »
The rain has stopped for now. Here are some photos of the stone collected. The first and last photo appear to be the same type of stone. Not smooth, but still seems to break right. The second photo is of one stone that broke in half while trying to spall it. It also isn't smooth.
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If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
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Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2014, 09:03:02 pm »
These last two are of the first stone I took pictures of. What caught my eye was the band in it, in the last photo.
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If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
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Offline cowboy

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2014, 10:22:40 pm »
Man, that is some course looking stuff! I picked up some around white sands new mexico that looks exactly like yours with the white cortex and black interior. It does flake but has layers in it, heat does absolutely nothing to it so I gave up on it.
 Generally the chert down here: I like to get it a half inch or thinner, bury in sand "lucky you", pack the sand down and check it. Want it to be around 2 1/2 to 3 inches. start a fire while not disturbing the sand and keep piling it on all day - dark to dark. The bed of coals will continue cooking throughout the night a some of next day. Wait until the next day to dig them up. that stuff looks like it could take a lot more heat, don't know. maybe an inch deep? experiment with some pieces first and good luck...
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Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2014, 11:30:42 pm »
OK, Maybe tomorrow I will see what I can do. I should be home from running around by noon. I have enough pallets to burn for about 2 days  :laugh:. If not I just brought a half a truck load of pine back from the cabin. Spalling seems like it may be the hard part. This is all really tough stuff. My 1 1/2 copper bopper doesn't really phase it, I was thinking about running it through a tile saw to get some decent preforms.

It also seems to be heavier than other rocks its size, like I have read is a good sign. It does spall with a 16 oz hammer though.
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If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline mullet

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2014, 09:29:38 am »
That stuff looks like gneiss, not sure about the spelling. Almost like shale, real tough to knap.
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Offline JackCrafty

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2014, 11:24:47 am »
I don't think heat will do anything to that rock, as Cowboy said.

That stuff will knap, but you should work out for a few months before tackle it.  ;D  I used that type for rock for crude choppers in the past.  It works for digging.  If you can knock off a long flake and put a point on it, you might be able to use it as a stone pressure flaker.
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Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
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Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2014, 04:27:28 pm »
What about the first stone? It does have a smooth texture. I don't think all of it is useable, but the red and orange band for sure. I wish the color would show. It is the same color as my truck.

Mullet, It is times like these that you do a facepalm. It is for sure just like Shale. It is near the Kennecott copper mine, but I don't think it is from there. There appears to be 500 + pound boulders of Chert, but it wont break, at least not with the 16 oz hammer I took.

Another thought. Do any of the Knappers on here have to deal with stone being exposed to freeze thaw? I hear it is death on stone sometimes.
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If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline mullet

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2014, 06:01:04 pm »
Freeze Thaw isn't a problem down here ;D.
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Lakeland, Florida
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Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2014, 06:10:19 pm »
I decided to just do it. The red and orange stone looked to be good, so I decided to put some work in. Couldn't spall it with my bopper, Couldn't spall it with a 16 oz hammer. So I decided to pull out the stops. 12 pound sledge hammer. Tried to give it some taps, no dice. Tried to hit it a bit harder, still nothing. Golf swing with the 12 pound sledge seems to be the method. It is all spalled now, some decent sized ones, some small ones. The color is AMAZING. Here is a small one that shows the color change. Red, green orange, makes it look like gasoline on water. Now, Should I heat treat these spalls? It is HARD!

It is wet again. Not as smooth as I had hoped. But it rings for sure.

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If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline mullet

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2014, 07:21:31 pm »
Kinda looks like a form of calcite flow.
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Lakeland, Florida
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Offline JackCrafty

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2014, 08:51:57 pm »
Just try some heat and see.  Most guys use a turkey roaster but you can bury it under a fire like you mentioned.

I have no idea what those rock types are but they sure look like rhyolite (the dark stuff) and quartzite (the mutli-colored stuff).
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Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline mullet

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Re: Texture of Knappable stone
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2014, 10:17:31 pm »
Yea, have to agree with Patrick, mineral colored quartzite, heat will not help it if it is.
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Lakeland, Florida
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