Author Topic: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?  (Read 71132 times)

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Offline avcase

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2015, 03:22:22 pm »
Steve,
I agree, lack of access to flight events is the biggest issue. There is currently only ONE event per year that offers record status for primitive flight. If the primitive rules are adopted by World Archery (formally FITA), then there would still only be potential for 3-4 events per year worldwide.

I would consider it a personal success if I helped organize one local event per year through our local archery club. I'd keep it as simple as possible: eliminate draw weight divisions, and perhaps have primitive self and primitive composite categories with no design limits.  The details of the bow, string, and arrows could just be noted, but the primary focus of a local shoot would be on fun and generating interest in the sport.

Alan

Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2015, 03:57:58 pm »
  I do like the idea of self and composite with no design limitations for our current flight organization. I would just like to see something that went slightly beyond the fun zone into the serious hobbyist zone. Perosnally I would like to compete about 4 times a year. Not sure how many years I have left.

   I do like the idea of fun shoots to generate interest and possibly using that as a springboard for those who took to it to take it to another level. I just don't see primitive flight shooting ever taking off without a dedicated organixation behind it. All the rules and regulations would be subject to a vote I would assume based on all of our inputs.
I think I see it as more of a major step, until we put it out there we will have no way of knowing if the world primitive archery community is even ready for it. I would love to see a section in PA magazine covering the flight shooting aspect.

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2015, 09:40:14 am »
...
On the other hand, if we want to record official distances for record status, then there is no way around having a uniform set of rules and adherence to consistent methods of measurement.

Alan
Yes there is!
As I have repeatedly suggested (but with no real response)... A two tier system, one being for fun, interest etc but with no official standing. And the formal, official status tier.
If no one else sees the value in this then fine, but it would be nice to have the suggestion acknowledged.
Del
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Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2015, 11:07:23 am »
     Del, the two tiered system would work. A total station would be too much to ask for a few guys getting together and shooting obviously but I would still like to see the lower tier conducted under basic protocal using basic equipment that would produce respectable listings. I would refer to the results as listings instead of records. It would also establish a training ground for officials capable of holding an event.

    I like Allens idea of open style just seperating self bows from laminated but at least 4 weight classes. 35, 50, 70, unlimited. I wish we had more input here. Be nice if we could lay out some guidelines to vote on at least within a month or so.

Offline avcase

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2015, 03:22:23 pm »
A Total Station measurement device is not required under the current flight rules. It just makes the measurement process much faster and accurate compared to using a certified steel tape and prism. I believe all the UK flight shoots use the certified steel tape method.

Del,
I see value in having a less rigorous tier of unofficial events.  If the measurement procedure or weigh-in requirements are a major impediment, then I feel it is better to compromise and have an event with unnoficial results rather than not have one at all.  If the event grows to the point that the archers want official record status, then I believe it is worth considering the existing set of rules and procedures rather than start from scratch.

Alan


Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2015, 03:28:54 pm »
   Allen, how did they do it 50 or 60- years ago before computers when it was very popular. That might be a model we could look at.

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2015, 06:23:31 pm »
A Total Station measurement device is not required under the current flight rules. It just makes the measurement process much faster and accurate compared to using a certified steel tape and prism. I believe all the UK flight shoots use the certified steel tape method.

Del,
I see value in having a less rigorous tier of unofficial events.  If the measurement procedure or weigh-in requirements are a major impediment, then I feel it is better to compromise and have an event with unnoficial results rather than not have one at all.  If the event grows to the point that the archers want official record status, then I believe it is worth considering the existing set of rules and procedures rather than start from scratch.

Alan
Cheers :)
That's very encouraging. If there is enough interest created in the UK then maybe we can organise an official primitive flight shoot.
Del
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Offline avcase

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2015, 08:19:54 pm »
Steve,
50-60 years ago, precise measurements were done with steel tapes and a prism. For large events, the officials would take a couple of days and lay out 1-2 flight lines beforehand using a transit.  For each flight line, pairs of stakes with lines stretched between them would be precisely positioned every 100 or 200 yards, establishing reference lines that were parallel to the flight line. A 100 yard steel tape was used to measure the position of the arrow relative to the nearest reference line.  If there was doubt that the tape wasn't being held square, then a prism would be used to ensure that the measurement was made perpendicular to the reference line.  It took more upfront work back then, but it seemed to have work pretty well.  The only downside is that once established, the flight lines are not easily moved.  I believe this is how the measurements are still done at the UK flight shoots.

Alan

Offline avcase

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2015, 08:46:31 pm »
At the 1944 US Flight Nationals, the equipment divisions were as follows:

Division 1 Flight Tackle: 50-lb, 65-lb, 80-lb, and Unlimited. There were no materials or bow design restrictions. The bows were a mix of self, sinew backed, and multi-lam composites.

Division 2 Hunting Tackle: No weight divisions.

Division 3 Roving Tackle: No draw weight divisions

Division 4 Target Tackle: No draw weight divisions

Alan

Offline Lukasz Nawalny

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2015, 02:51:38 am »
In our first competition we used steel tape and tablets with distance in every 25 meters, it work quite well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TszrwCgV1tE&feature=youtu.be

Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2015, 03:12:04 am »
  That was a great video, it really captured the spirit of flight shooting. I liked everything about it.

  Allen a format similar to the 1944 format has some appeal to me.  I am hoping we get more feedback on what potential flight archers might be looking for, I only know what i like but am happy to go with the majority. As expected it will take some hashing out.

  I like the idea of using a video along with written instructions to help standardize all the groups as they form.

Offline avcase

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2015, 08:45:22 pm »
I hope to have a time and place for a flight shoot in Oregon. It will be sometime prior to our US Nationals. If I can secure the venue, and enough people show interest, then it may even be possible to shoot for official record status under USA/World Archery.

California used to have a state championship that had more archers than the U.S. Nationals. It would be great to see local flight shoots make a come back.

Alan

Offline Badger

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2015, 02:10:59 am »
  Allen, I would try and make that. California has a lot of people, it would be good to secure a sight withing 3 or 4 hours of Los Angeles. I would think the big cnetral valley here would have suitable spots if we could time it right with the farmers.

Offline joachimM

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2015, 06:33:56 pm »
just chipping in my 2€ct:
I'm in favour of having multiple weight categories (<35, <50, etc and unlimited), including self bows (one piece of wood), composite bows, "broad head" (i.e., at 9-10 gpp), ...
I can't see a good reason for different categories for male and female participants, especially when you include also a variety of draw weights.

joachim
(from Belgium)

Offline redhawk55

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Re: Founding a new worldwide Primitive flightbow federation?
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2015, 04:10:48 pm »
Sorry for being that late with the site, have had a hard time with the heaviest storms here in the heights of the Black Forest. The roofs of our shelters and barns are fixed.

The framework of the site is done.
I still need a header-image and pics for the history- site. I would also like some videos for the club' s youtube- channel and some posts on " Why do you like flight-archery.................." Any other ideas are very, very welcome! Be aware of the copy- right.

What about a membership fee?

Useful links?

Admins wanted! Everybody who wants to help to administrate the site will get the login details as soon as the site is published. Maybe at most 4 admins? Send me your email- adress,

The most urgent part is the rules site. Steve is aiming at the 1st of March!

Michael
..........the way of underdoing.............