Advice needed for teaching basic shooting form - keeping the arrow on the bow

[DesertDisciple]

So my wife has had a board bow I made her for a while and has wanted to learn how to shoot. She struggles with a number of things that make it frustrating for her and I was hoping I could glean some tidbits to help her.

Her biggest hurdle is keeping the arrow on the bow. some things Ive noted:
-she tries to "hold" the arrow on the string by torquing her fingers (I call it Deathclaw)
-she starts with the bow canted very slightly then it jerks in the other direction about 6in from full draw (bow arm wrist rotation)
-I have a feeling shes looking ather hand or at the arrow. Could this be the source?

As you can imagine, its very frustrating for her. Perhaps shes overbowed? She can draw it easily enough without the arrow on. Maybe practicing a smooth draw sans arrow will help? She does have a glove and the string is served, with the arrow nock carved to click on and hold.

What do you all think?

[PEARL DRUMS]

Make sure she is using a deep finger hook on the string.  Have her draw the bow without an arrow and see if she reacts the same way. That arrow out front changes everything. Our minds are capable one conscience thought at a time, and that's ever fleeting and changing. If she is looking at her spot, then looks at her arrow or bow, then back at the spot....its already heading in the wrong direction. If the weight is good, Id have her draw the bow over and over until she gets that motion right and solid. Then worry about arrows coming off it.

[Pat B]

That "deathclaw" gets all beginners. Trying to grip the arrow nock and string as the bow is drawn will throw the arrow off the bow every time. Using a hook without gripping is the secret but it has to be learned.

[TimBo]

Also, if she is sticking her elbow out (the arrow arm, not the bow arm), that might twist the arrow away from the riser.  I tell people to think about rotating their arrow hand clockwise (for RH shooters) into the riser.  Of course, you don't want to overdo that, but a little goes a long way in keeping the arrow on the bow.  That motion should help provide a better release - it goes along with the rotational draw philosophy. 

This is making me want to go shoot...maybe I can give myself some good advice for once!

[Del the cat]

Get her to cant it over at 45 degrees or even horizontal, just to build up confidence.
There is no earthy reason to hold a bow vertical... unles it has "sights" (spits on floor) on it.
If you tell her that it may remove some preconceptions and worry about doing it "right"
Del

[DC]

I'm not one to be giving advise but a lady at the range was having the same problem an I told her to make sure she had her first and second finger separated. It helped her. For myself I made a tab with a finger spacer.

[le0n]

as a level 1 instructor, i see this a lot when teaching the girls (girl scouts) to shoot.

there are two things that really come into play here. bow weight and finger placement on the string.

instinctively, they'll begin by placing the string in the first joints of their fingers. this usually results in them torquing the string (and arrow nock) when they near a full draw. cantering the bow will help, but you'll still see their arrow wanting to lift off of the shelf.

i teach them to use only the tips of their fingers (in between the first joints and the ends of their finger tips) to draw the arrow back.

some of them don't have the finger strength to only use the tips of their fingers, so they'll revert back to placing the string in the joints again on the next round of shooting. if i see this, and if the string has a good nock on it, i'll suggest the three finger under method. they might still torque the string, but it makes it difficult to move the arrow outward with only one finger on the under side of the arrow nock.

this also relieves them from the string-to-arrow pinch created at full draw.

[JW_Halverson]

I struggled with that myself.  No idea what I did, but one day it went away.  Then years later, I was teaching two young girls to shoot and the one kept dropping the arrow off her knuckle on the bow hand.  I went and found her a lighter bow so she could keep shooting with little or no effort and I spent the day watching from every angle until I figured she was curling her fingers and closing her fist as she was coming to just past half draw.  That was causing (for a rightey) the string to twist to the left, carrying the arrow with it. 

Someone here had posted about taking the string deep into the fingers of the arrow hand, all the way into that first joint.  I was teaching her to use just the fingertips.  She was instinctively thinking the string would slip away from her, so she was curling her fingers.  I switched her to hooking the string back deep in her finger joints and showed her what was causing the problem.  Mechanically, the deeper hook helped, but the intellectual explanation helped her attitude so that when it happened again, she knew what to do.  Prior to that, the frustration of not understanding why her little sister was successful when she was not was killing her!

[DesertDisciple]

Wow thanks so much everyone! Lots of excellent advice here and glad this is a tackleable challenge.

Pearl and Pat, excellent insight. Im going to have her draw without an arrow until she is comfortable with the grip. I also think dhe will like a tab better than the glove I was having her use. Good tip DC.

Timbo, I felt the same way! Trying to adjust someone elses form has got me trying to fix all the weird stuff I was doing.

Del, I was actually considering this myself! I suppose if your draw is consistant and you are accurate it doesnt matter what angle the bow is and most importantly, it looks pretty cool heck I think it would be useful to shoot from prone with the horizontal position! Ill keep my mind open so she can have fun.

leOn, I learned to shoot with figertips only as well and am switching back and forth between that and hook trying to decide wich feels more natural. When I tried to get my wife to draw with just the tips her hand turned into a petrified vulture talon (Deathclaw!) so I had her switch as it was obviously not comfortble for her.

JW, you reminded me of a time I took her and her little sister shooting, and the younger one refused to release the string when she finally hit anchor. It was hilarious, as she thought it would leterally explode. Good times.

Sorry for the lengthy response but thanks everyone for input. Ill let you know the results

[Andrea S]

Just thought I'd chime in - I had this problem occasionally when I picked up shooting again after a long departure. I'm not sure what caused it exactly (more than likely just torquing the string) but I do know what fixed it for me - aiming down the arrow first. Essentially I was pulling the string back with the bow and string misaligned, so the way to keep them all in line is to sight down the arrow and imagine pulling it straight back along its own length like a train on a track. When I do that consciously, my arrow never jumps off my hand.

Bow weight may be a factor too - sometimes I will still slip after a long shooting session because my form goes to crap as my muscles get tired.

[le0n]

leOn, I learned to shoot with figertips only as well and am switching back and forth between that and hook trying to decide wich feels more natural. When I tried to get my wife to draw with just the tips her hand turned into a petrified vulture talon (Deathclaw!) so I had her switch as it was obviously not comfortble for her.

i understand that and have seen it on plenty occasions. didn't know you tried it already, hence my suggestion. but yeah, i've seen that deathclaw before and i was like: "wow! how are you even doing that?"

also, the anatomy of our hands are different, and this plays a role too:


it really boils down to what she'll be comfortable with.

get two finger tabs for her to try. the three-under and the split.

it's nice to have options.

[Springbuck]

Tie a shoelace into a loop and have her loop it over just that first knuckle, one finger at a time, and pull with her other hand.  She will quickly see that the string holds on to her finger with barely any bend at all, because it is looped. Using this as a starting point she can then see and feel how curled her fingers need to be. 

 People curl their hand in too much because they are afraid the string will get away from them, but this is a good alway to demonstrate and practice the flatter hand and barely crooked fingers that promote a good grip, and good release.

I experimented with a device that straps to the back of the hand and forces it to keep the fingers in line until that last knuckle, and a little bit of the second, but this was better, when teaching people to shoot.

[DesertDisciple]

Thanks everyone again. Just wanted to provide an update.

Wife hasnt dropped a single arrow since weve started working on it.

I (and she!) appreciate all your help and advice. Once I get her some matching arrows, she might be a better shot than me.

The fixes:
- draw weight comfort! Got her used to drawing the bow sans projectile to build her confidence. Even a light weight bow feels weird when youve never shot before
- foucs! Got her to stop looking at her hands and at the target, which helped her form and got rid of the bow arm twisties
- Served the string! Made an immense difference when she didnt feel like she had to "hold" the arrow on. An important stepped I had neglected and didnt think would matter.

Now its on to getting a smooth release everytime. At least shes having fun now. Thanks again!

[Pat B]

As long as she's having fun her shooting will improve.