Author Topic: need advice...is this crack irreparable?  (Read 3377 times)

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Offline richardzane

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need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« on: October 29, 2015, 05:56:06 pm »
would appreciate a little advice
while heatgun reflexing a roughed out osage bow (stave seasoned 2 yrs)  I find this parallel crack down the edge.
does this mean the bow is not worth messing with? kindling? or could it be packed with super glue clamped and saved?
any suggestions would be appreciated!
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 07:59:44 pm by richardzane »
when i'm working on things my ancestors worked, singing the songs my ancestors sang, dancing the same dances, speaking the same language, only then  I feel connected to the land, THIS land, where my ancestors walked for thousands of years...

Offline Danzn Bar

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2015, 06:00:40 pm »
Richard,
Open the crack... add super glue and clamp.  I think you'll have a bow if the final design is not real aggressive.  Meaning a little longer than ideal.
DBar
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Offline richardzane

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2015, 06:05:22 pm »
fortunately it IS a 6 footer, but i was going to flip the tips...hmm, maybe not?
whattda ya think....back off and keep it simple?
when i'm working on things my ancestors worked, singing the songs my ancestors sang, dancing the same dances, speaking the same language, only then  I feel connected to the land, THIS land, where my ancestors walked for thousands of years...

Offline Danzn Bar

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2015, 06:11:11 pm »
What draw length and poundage are you looking for? 
DBafr
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Offline RBLusthaus

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2015, 06:16:10 pm »
While that crack may be repairable with glue and sinew, et al, if I had other wood available to me to use now, I would hold off on spending too much time with that one.

Offline richardzane

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2015, 06:26:34 pm »
Danzn Bar, I'm aiming to make it a 55#

RBLusthaus, I do have a mess of staves to choose from...it's just THIS one was turning out so beautifully :-)
when i'm working on things my ancestors worked, singing the songs my ancestors sang, dancing the same dances, speaking the same language, only then  I feel connected to the land, THIS land, where my ancestors walked for thousands of years...

Offline Danzn Bar

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2015, 06:42:28 pm »
Richard,
It's good to see you back on PA...it's been a while, I remember a very nice persimmon bow you posted a couple of years back.
What draw are you looking for?  55# at 28"?  IMHO I would glue and clamp, and make the bow 68" with an 8" static handle and flip the last 6" of the tips up a bit.  With a good glue joint I think you will be fine.  Remember it's osage.
DBar
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Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2015, 06:44:13 pm »
That is one strange crack. I don't think Ive seen one like that occur while doing what your doing. Makes me think your wood isn't dry enough for heat yet. The years matter not, its all about what RH its been stored in and for how long.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline PEARL DRUMS

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2015, 06:46:31 pm »
Oh, and it looks like your trying to shape an 80-90# bow. Get that baby bending nice and even on the floor at about 60-70#, then put the coals to it. It will hold more shape, straighten and bend easier, i.e. less cracks.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2015, 06:48:27 pm »
 it looks like the wood may have been a little thick,,?

Offline Danzn Bar

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2015, 06:51:55 pm »
That is one strange crack. I don't think Ive seen one like that occur while doing what your doing. Makes me think your wood isn't dry enough for heat yet. The years matter not, its all about what RH its been stored in and for how long.
Chris I think your on to something....
Richard,
The more I look at your pic's I have questions on how your doing your reflexing.  Are you heating a section close to the riser bending it and then moving slowly towards the tips? 
Worst thing I have done is got in a hurry and put too much pressure on the wood with the clamps before the temperature of the wood was right.
Just asking???
DBar
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 06:56:14 pm by Danzn Bar »
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Offline richardzane

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2015, 09:23:17 pm »
Thanks everyone for the thoughts and insights here
Dbar, thanks...yeah that old persimmon bow you saw is still a great shooter at 60#. It about all the weight I can handle!
on this osage I was heating up and down that limb and just keeping my hand weight closer to the tip to feel it almost bend by itself so I don't think THAT was the problem.
But maybe it IS a problem?...maybe i should be bending a little at a time from the riser...just don't want to scorch the wood I guess

Pearl , yeah, it might be that it is a bit too thick still to deflex....and the dryness ..never even thought about that. I keep my staves in the rafters in an uninsulated shed
so normally everything seems ultra dry....but we did have a wet summer here in Oklahoma.
You're an expert on flipping tips, how thin do you shave the ends before steam bending em? mine are about 1/2" at the present.
 I'm also glad you think its a strange crack, because I have a number of fair staves I got from the log of osage someone was selling for fence posts out here. $12 a log!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2015, 09:30:10 pm by richardzane »
when i'm working on things my ancestors worked, singing the songs my ancestors sang, dancing the same dances, speaking the same language, only then  I feel connected to the land, THIS land, where my ancestors walked for thousands of years...

Offline Hamish

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2015, 12:05:30 am »
At first look I thought  it might be related to still having too much moisture, and the cells rupturing out from the side, though I don't think it was a major cause(though it still could factor in somewhere in the problem).
Definitely an unusual crack. I think there are a lot of factors involved. That clamp is right above a knot, which turns it into a real stress point, when you crank down on the next clamp in sequence. Kind of like using your knee as a fulcrum when breaking a branch for firewood.


Combine that with not enough time with heating to penetrate right into the centre of the stave.

Easy enough thing to do, especially if you haven't done many staves.
I found since using cooking oil to heat in a reflex or straighten I have had less problems. Somehow seems to help the heat penetrate deeper, or trap it in better.
 Also wait for the wood to relax. If you tighten the clamp and still get resistance at that spot you need to heat it for longer.
 Like the other guys have said super glue and clamp. Just make sure to pad the back with a thick piece of leather so you don't bruise the back with a clamp. Don't reheat the wood as  the superglue will vaporize, and the crack will open up again.

Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2015, 09:31:55 am »
I have tried to make several bows that had side cracks, all failed. I believe side cracks indicate faulty, weak, wood, this has been my experience, others may have had some luck with the stuff but I haven't.

Offline richardzane

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Re: need advice...is this crack irreparable?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2015, 10:59:04 am »
Hamish ,yeah....I've been avoiding cooking oil only because once its soaked in it gums up sandpaper when finishing it
but I'm sure it would help get the heat distributed deeper. do you de-gum yours after oiling?

I'm thinking more and more its a moisture problem because it started as a very thick stave just a few says ago
and the crack seemed VERY difficult to clamp shut which makes me think it was actually tearing away in a shrinking action.
and Eric, the crack does seem to be opening along a slightly darker ring in the wood....which makes sense that any shrinking away would find the weakest ring

 glued it and have decided to set it aside to cure for awhile, to dry,  tackle it at a later date.
 probably oughta whittle down a lot of my staves
well, for now I have a couple dogwood staves waiting to be experimented on.

appreciate everybodies thoughts...its likely a combination of being too thick, to much moisture and uneven heating with the gun.
when i'm working on things my ancestors worked, singing the songs my ancestors sang, dancing the same dances, speaking the same language, only then  I feel connected to the land, THIS land, where my ancestors walked for thousands of years...