Author Topic: 3 not so hot  (Read 7402 times)

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Offline Spotted Dog

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3 not so hot
« on: November 05, 2015, 12:54:22 pm »

I am having trouble thinning. The big gray one. I even tried to cheat with copper a bit and didn't work.
This is beginning to affect my neck and arms bad. Could use some help. :(
A three strand cord is not easily broken. Ecc.4:12

Offline le0n

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Re: 3 not so hot
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2015, 01:40:03 pm »
The help you need is in the form of indirect percussion I believe.

Look into it. It requires a less strength but gives big results in terms of flaking.

If you start now in your early stage of learning, I think you'll progress quickly.

I just started this week. Sort of kicking myself for that too.

Your flaking is coming along nicely though. Nice scarring on that big guy in the middle.

Offline turbo

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Re: 3 not so hot
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2015, 04:30:18 pm »
I've heard others complain about soreness/body pain while knapping abo. I have recently experienced this myself coming off a long knapping hiatus. I don't remember it before so it could be age too ;)

In short I think we need to listen to our bodies and take breaks, which I don't always follow myself.. Abo may use more strength/dexterity but if it causes pain back off and analyze what may be contributing, ex; 'I kept wacking that platform like a crazed caveman and it didn't release, maybe my platform was too strong?' etc, etc

Offline Spotted Dog

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Re: 3 not so hot
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2015, 05:36:16 pm »
I have bad nerve damage in my neck and arms. So ..................
I am not going to stop just rethink.
A three strand cord is not easily broken. Ecc.4:12

AncientTech

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Re: 3 not so hot
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2015, 06:11:51 pm »
Not counting the obsidian biface, you should consider employing hammerstone thinning on the chert bifaces.

I do better with hammerstones, when standing up, because my arms can move more freely, with full follow through.  Since your neck and arms hurt, it sounds like you may be straining, and hunched over. 

To use the hammerstone, you need to find one that is not too hard, until you are better with hammerstones.  You could use limestone, or sandstone, hammerstones. 

Hold the biface in a piece of leather with edge exposed.  Find a hump near the edge, flip the biface over, and tap down on the edge, to lightly chip a steep platform in front of the hump.  Use light taps, or use a punch.  Flip the biface again, and use a hard drop swing, that clips the platform, with the hammerstone.  Don't overgrip the biface.  It needs a little bit of play. 

If you do this, you can keep removing high spots, until the biface is relatively thin.  But, you have to practice over and over for days, weeks, and months.  I think that I practiced for six months, before I got a sense of stabling out.  Now I can use the same process, to create coast to coast flakes, or sometimes too much of a flake - hard hammer overshots that destroy the biface.  But, it took months of practice to develop this skill. 

Also, the gray stuff looks really glossy.  If the stone is too fine, or heat treated, the hammerstone process might damage the stone. 

If you practice with the hammerstones long enough, you will discover that it is the same thing over and over again, in most cases.  And, you will be able to vary the hammerstones, while compensating for hardness.  Also, if you practice long enough, you will be able to develop a "groove", so that you can do it almost mechanically, without much strain, or thought. 

If you do not want to stand up all the time, or the bifaces are smaller, you can sit down with left leg propped up, and rest your left arm against your leg, while holding the biface, in the left hand.  Hold your hammerstone in your right hand.  This was a position recorded by ethnographic observers, in North America, on various occasions. 

But, beware, if you really start developing the skill, and you start tearing off large flakes, with the hammerstones, you can also do a great deal of damage to your fingertips, should a large detachment happen to fly off and catch a nearby finger tip.  So, it is important to make sure that a cut piece of leather acts as a barrier to protect the holding hand, from flying flakes.  I have had a few instances where I was sure that I would need stitches...  Fortunately, stone-made cuts seem to heal quickly, when held under pressure, and taped up.   

Offline le0n

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Re: 3 not so hot
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2015, 07:15:55 pm »
^^ good information there. thanks.

i need to really locate a variety hammer stones. i'm not even exactly sure of what i'm currently using, i think it is quartz. i found it in my landscaping rocks, hah hah.


Offline Spotted Dog

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Re: 3 not so hot
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2015, 07:22:16 pm »
I thank you for the info. When I was still working and not now disabled I did a lot of heavy hammer work. 16 pound hammer .
Air tools and welding for 35 years. That is why my neck and arms hurt. I am grateful for the help. I will try anything to continue.
May make an abo Ishi stick for indirect also.
A three strand cord is not easily broken. Ecc.4:12

AncientTech

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Re: 3 not so hot
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2015, 08:11:40 am »
^^ good information there. thanks.

i need to really locate a variety hammer stones. i'm not even exactly sure of what i'm currently using, i think it is quartz. i found it in my landscaping rocks, hah hah.

Different hammerstones react differently to different materials.  Hard hammerstones that are overly slick could slip on the platform, whereas softer hammerstone, such as sandstone and limestone, may grab the platform better.

Also, people may know that heat treating stone will make stone more brittle.  But, the inverse is true, as well.  Natural stone can be overly "flexible" - the opposite of overly brittle.

The problem with hammerstone flaking overly flexible stone is that the stone might bend, rather than crack.  And, if it cracks after bending, it will cause the break to go slightly haywire, and cause internal fracturing.

So, hammerstone thinning may not be good for all forms of flaking - especially if a person is dealing with high grade stone, that is flexible, rather than brittle.  In such cases, indirect percussion might be optimal over hammerstones.  This may well be seen in the prehistoric flaking of really high grade materials, that were raw.

So, in working with hammerstones, you have to think in terms of the material of the hammer versus the material of the stone being flaked.  Some hammerstones are acutely hard, such as quartzite, or granite hammerstones.  Other hammerstones are much softer, such as sandstone and limestone, hammerstones.  Some stone being flaked is quite brittle, such as obsidian, or heat treated stone.  Other stone being flaked can be quite flexible, such as certain types of raw fine grained stone.  Brittle stone is generally easier to fracture than flexible stone.

If a hammerstone is overly hard, it may be more prone to producing a deep bulb in the impact site.  If a hammerstone is soft, it may produce a more diffuse bulb, at the impact site.  If you learn to vary technique, you can range through both types of hammerstones.  But, you have to learn to compensate for the stone's hardness, or softness.

To the outsider, it may appear that hammerstone percussion involves greater force than antler/wood indirect percussion.  But, this is not necessarily true.  The force involved generally depends upon the weight of the percussor times the speed of the swing.  For example, a one pound billet swung at five miles an hour does not generate the same force as a twenty pound billet swung ninety miles per hour. 

The difference between indirect percussion, and direct percussion, relates to the force to shock ratio.  By separating the flaking tool, from the percussing tool, a flintknapper can increase force, while reducing shock.  In general, this distinguishes indirect percussion, from direct percussion.  So, it is not accurate to say that one process produces more force than the other process.  It would be accurate to say that one process is more prone to generating greater degrees of shock.  And, that process would be direct percussion.  In some cases, this is good.  But, it is not good in every case.  There are cases when greater shock can damage the stone - especially if the stone bends, before the break begins.

That being said, how would one know when to switch from direct percussion, to indirect percussion?  Ah, that is a good question.  I think that the simple answer is that one can continue with hammerstone reduction, until it becomes apparent that the hammerstone work is damaging the biface.  In other words, if the hammerstone work begins to produce internal fracturing in the edges, then one can always switch to indirect percussion.

But, here is the problem with focusing on making points from "start to finish" via authentic aboriginal flintknapping practices:  Suppose it takes a fellow three to six months of near daily practice to develop good hammerstone skills, then what will happen if he focuses on other stages, while working to the finish, on every point?  He will lose time on developing his hammerstone skills.  Then, it will take even longer to develop good hammerstone skills.

Since many people try using hammerstones, and then quit, I would advise using hammerstones, while making bifaces for weeks, and months, and piling the bifaces up.  As the skill level increases, some of the bifaces can be re-worked.  When the skill level gets really good, the knapper should be able to throw coast to coast, and outrepasse, from time to time.  Then, once the bifaces have accumulated, and the knapper has developed good skill, he can go back, and rework with other flintknapping processes.  In terms of aboriginal flaking, I think that it is critical for people to get past this stage.  And, it takes a lot of practice - maybe weeks or months of practice.

   

 

   

Offline le0n

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Re: 3 not so hot
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2015, 10:09:03 am »
^^ i'll be shopping for an assortment hammerstones to begin testing.

Since many people try using hammerstones, and then quit, I would advise using hammerstones, while making bifaces for weeks, and months, and piling the bifaces up.  As the skill level increases, some of the bifaces can be re-worked.

i know i would benefit from practice like that. it's just so hard for me to not want to try finish them, hah hah.